DVD 3 Hour recording questions. Tried searching with no firm results

[redraif]

I hate to ask dumb tired questions when I can search, but there is a problem. I was trying to do a search, but the search feature will not look with my criteria. Says the " is disabled... UGH!

So I guess I have to do it this way. I'm sorry guys!

I'm new here and don't have much recording knowledge. I just got a recorder combo & I'm not happy with the results it has yielded transferring my VHS to DVD.

After reading alot here while searching, I'm guessing it's my unit's limitation. So the plan is to take it back and use my money wiser. I'm thinking I'd be better off to take my $220 and get an independant DVD recorder w/ a hard drive and use the old VCR w/ RCAs that still playes just fine.

The catch is getting a unit that will do what I want. This is where my seaching fell apart.

What I'm doing:
I'm transferring TV episodes saved on VHS at SLP (still a decent picture) to DVD. (8 eps @ 42 mins a piece. Commercials pre-edited out)
What I found:
I know expecting 6-8 hours w/ a good pic out of a DVD is ridiculous. What I have read here showed that. Pic will be a mess. Though I have also seen here units should be able to produce a pic near that of SP on a VHS @ LP (3hr mode). These are results my current unit could not produce. It could not even do that at SP mode.
What I want:
I want to buy a unit that will let me record @ LP (3hrs) or near that (2hr50min): 4 eps/half the VHS. I want the pic quality to be as near as possible to the original recording on VHS @ that speed.

Is there a unit that can do this???? What unit??? After what I have read I was leaning to Panasonic or JVC. Will the Hard Drive help me with this? Help!

Thanks for any advise you can give!

Thanks!

[Krispy Kritter]

My first thought is that LP is not 3 hours...it's 4 hours (SP=2 hrs, LP=4hrs, SLP=6hrs), at least that is what I recall from all of my VCR's over the years. I would expect DVD recorders to follow the same "standard". The highest quality (closest to the original anyway) that a standalone recorder will get, will be using SP mode. From my experience, even when starting with a pristine SD capture, there is a very noticable quality loss when switching to LP mode. In your case, you are most likely going from average quality at best, and reducing the quality further to fit more on a disc.

If you insist on squeezing more ep per disc, you would likely get much better results using a pc to process the video.

[redraif]

Thats what I thought. yes all VCRs I had LP was 4hrs. Leave it to me to get the odd ball! I might have said it wrong. 3 might be EP. Guess the manual would help. I will have to grab it and give all the info.

Mine has a 1hr, 2hr, 3hr, 4hr, 7hr & 8hr.

Why 6 is skipped I have no clue.

Wow PC to disk.... that a whole nother can of worms. PC is dead at the moment. Hence using my time at work... LOL!

I guess there are programs that clean up and improve quality when using a PC that a Standalone unit just can't do? I remember back in the day there was a box dad had btw the 2 vcrs... used the RCAs. It was to enhance the transfer to keep you from loosing quality. Is there nothing like this now?

Again I'm sorry I'm so unversed in everything. Baby steps, right?

[trhouse]

Your dad had the right idea. It is still a good solution. There are boxes called video correctors that combine color correction and noise reduction in one box. I have a JVC model JX-C7. They can be had on eBay for typically $25.

The comment about SP mode still not being good is the most worrisome because nearly all brands of recorders perform about the same at SP. You might visit the restoration forum. Many of the units like the JX-C7 and Vidicraft products are described there with images of what they can do for you.

A hard drive recorder is not likely to improve this situation. They have almost vanished from the US market.

[Sean Nelson]

I would highly recommend an HDD-based DVD recorder for archiving VHS tapes, particularly if you have a lot of them. I archived several dozen VHS tapes using a Pioneer 633 - the way I did it was to play the tape and start the recorder by using "one-time record" (hitting the "record" button multiple times to get the duration you want). The recording was made to the hard drive while I went away and did something productive. After the recording was finished (timing wasn't critical since the recorder would stop itself anyway) I'd go back to the unit and use the editing functions to trim the beginning and ending of the recording, split it up into individual titles (one for each show that was on the original tape) and then high-speed copy it to a DVD.

LP mode on most DVD recorders is 4 hours per single-sided disk. Recorders have various selections of speeds, for example my Pioneer recorders actually let you select "in between" speeds to get the maximum quality for the amount of material you need. I often use "MN20" speed which gives me 2 hours and 10 minutes per single-sided disk, because this is very close to SP (2-hour) quality but lets me get three 1-hour TV episodes onto a disk after the commercials are removed.

One thing to be aware of is the various recorders encode LP mode differently. Full DVD resolution is 720 x 480 pixels, but at LP speed many DVD recorders drop down to 352 x 480. There's disagreement between various people as to whether having LP-mode recordings at 352 x 480 or at 720 x 480 is better. The lower-resolution recordings may look "soft" on a large enough display, but the higher-resolution ones may have more encoding artifacts such as macroblocking, posterization, etc. Source material on a VHS tape won't be that high quality to begin with, so the lower-resolution mode could well be just fine, but the final result really depends on your sensitivities, what kind of display you're using, and what type of material it is (ie, fast motion / high detail tends to make encoding artifacts even worse).

[LCSHG]

I think the key here is the [redraif] Quote
“I'm transferring TV episodes saved on VHS at SLP (still a decent picture) to DVD. (8 eps @ 42 mins a piece. Commercials pre-edited out)”

VHS tape at SLP is not the best. I normally dub VHS tape to DVD at SP 2hr when possible.
I have dubbed VHS to DVD at 3, ,4 hr with good results
If dubbing a SLP recorded VHS tape I wouldn’t worry about Quality even at EP 6hr

Take note of the last paragraph of [Sean Nelson] post above.
It really gets directly to the quality issue

[FulciLives]

Basically you want a stand alone DVD recorder that does Half D1 resolution (352x480 for NTSC) at a recording time that will give you about 3 hours on a single layer DVD disc.

That will give you the "best" quality for a SLP/EP speed recorded VHS videotape.

Only problem: Very few stand alone DVD recorders do 3 hours at Half D1 resolution.

I'm a big fan of Pioneer DVD recorders but none do Half D1 at 3 hours anymore. The Toshiba DVD recorders are highly regarded (only the HDD equipped models) and I think they do Half D1 at 3 hours but the current gen of the HDD equipped models are discontinued and the non-HDD models currently available are crap in comparison (and have no 3 hour mode anyways).

Although I would normally not recommend RCA there is a respected user on this forum (LordSmurf is his nick) who has said that the RCA DVD recorder with a built-in HDD (sold at WALMART) is a decent DVD recorder that does do Half D1 at 3 hours and does it very well. Here is a comment of his: CLICK HERE

Unfortunately I think this RCA model [DRC8030N] is now discontinued as it is no longer listed on the WALMART website BUT you might still be able to find it at a local WALMART store.

I did a bit looking around on the 'net and I found two places (using PRICEGRABBER.COM) that have the RCA DRC8030N for sale ... but both places only have refurbished units.

It appears that the new RCA model is the DRC8335 but this model lacks a built-in HDD (which I consider nearly essential for any model stand alone DVD recorder) but it does include a built-in 6 Heard Hi-Fi Stereo VHS VCR. I downloaded the manual and it does have a 3 hour mode but the manual did not state what resolution it uses so I can't comment on if this unit behaves like the older unit described by LordSmurf. Another concern with the RCA is that SLP/EP speed VHS videotapes tend to have a less-than-stable image and this can cause "havoc" with some DVD recorders if they don't have a decent TBC (Time Base Corrector) built-in. The Pioneer and Toshiba have good TBC performance. The RCA? Who knows but I doubt it.

At least with WALMART you can easily return something like this if you aren't happy with the performance.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[jackedup]

Just wondering why you would want 352x480 resolution rather then 720x480?

I am not disagreeing with your comment but curious.

[jman98]

Just wondering why you would want 352x480 resolution rather then 720x480?

I am not disagreeing with your comment but curious.

352x480 is a lot closer to the resolution of VHS tape than 720x480 and the original post talked about converting VHS to DVD. Also, the lower resolution means you can get by with lower bit rate recording to get good results. You'll need fewer bits to make 352x480 look good than you will 720x480.

[Midzuki]

the lower resolution means you can get by with lower bit rate recording to get good results. You'll need fewer bits to make 352x480 look good than you will 720x480.

Usually 2800 kbps is sufficient to make 352x480 MPEG-2 look as good as SP VHS.

==============================================

[jackedup]

Just wondering why you would want 352x480 resolution rather then 720x480?

I am not disagreeing with your comment but curious.

352x480 is a lot closer to the resolution of VHS tape than 720x480 and the original post talked about converting VHS to DVD. Also, the lower resolution means you can get by with lower bit rate recording to get good results. You'll need fewer bits to make 352x480 look good than you will 720x480.

Thanks

[lordsmurf]

VHS has additional kinds of noise (grain, chroma) that really should be filtered. I would highly suggest you buy a JVC DR-M10 or JVC DR-M100 unit from www.ecost.com and record at FR180 mode (3 hours per single-layer disc). It will create a disc that looks better than the VHS tape did, due to filtering and the ability to make high quality encodes.

A few other JVC models would also be acceptable, such as the combo decks.

[FulciLives]

VHS has additional kinds of noise (grain, chroma) that really should be filtered. I would highly suggest you buy a JVC DR-M10 or JVC DR-M100 unit from www.ecost.com and record at FR180 mode (3 hours per single-layer disc). It will create a disc that looks better than the VHS tape did, due to filtering and the ability to make high quality encodes.

A few other JVC models would also be acceptable, such as the combo decks.

I looked at the JVC website and I see they have 3 new models of DVD Recorders. I was able to download a PDF manual that covers 2 of the 3 models (the top-of-the-line model has no PDF manual for download ... at least not that I can see).

It appears the new models only have fixed recording times and no FR type option. To me that is a BIG plus in a DVD recorder especially sad is that the new JVC line goes straight from 2 hours to 4 hours with no recording time in-between that.

I realize the DR-M10 and DR-M100 are older models that support FR recording but these models are getting a bit old now and appear to be "fixed" at 0.0 IRE BLACK input making them not the "best" choice for North American NTSC spec.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[FulciLives]

ecost does have a DR-MV5 listed for $95.99 and this model does support FR recording.

Obviously this is a refurbished model etc. but the price is sure impressive.

I don't know what the IRE is like on this model though.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[lordsmurf]

The IRE issue is unusual. My machines are fine, but some others are not. I almost wonder if some setting in the chipsets or otherwise is altered?

[RabidDog]

Slight additional point .. I would avoid buying an all in one dvd recorder/ vcr as, once you have transferred all your tapes, this big bulky unit will be sitting there, completely unused (VHS part). If you get a seperate vcr you can sell it on or give it away or chuck it on the skip(recycle it). And you can get rid of all the old vhs tapes too (bonfire /thanksgiving /patriots day /Canuck ??)