Macrovision Has Solution for DVD-R copy protection

[videopoo]

Yes, because it is a hobby. My profession is Information Security. If someone buys a product, they are free to do whatever with it. You could not stop them from using the disc as a frisbee or melting it down. You only have the right of first sale. That is not even a guarantee.

Well...like I said before...if this was your business you probably would be thinking a different way.

[Dv8ted2]

I am taking this offline - read your pm.

[videopoo]

I am taking this offline - read your pm.

Why? This is a discussions forum. Sorry you don't agree with me

[usually_quiet]

The same guys that will take the time to break the copy protection are the same kind of guys who would break your car window to pull out your stereo so I guess the case can be made not to lock your door.

I had a friend who came to exactly that concusion after having her car window broken three times. Those who really want to break copy protection can. Not that I'm against intellectual property rights, but copy protection doesn't work very well.

[Noahtuck]

People are smarter than you give them credit for.

I don't know about that...it would be an interesting street poll to see what percentage of avg folks would be able to pull it off

Ya know... i really hate to agree with him
But i know a lot of people that have had PC's for years!!!!
anywhere from 20-50 years old and prrety much 99% of them are clueless

One is not but he still calls me for help certain things and another that is learning very well.... most of the others no matter how hard you try to explain and teach, they just never seem to fully get it, but i think it's because it's just a "casual" thing for them so they are not really inclined to "learn" & retain certain information except to read e-mail and surf :P

[drjtech]

I am? What company do I work for?

You work for Advanced Media Solutions and you are attempting to market your services here.

-drjtech

[Dv8ted2]

People are smarter than you give them credit for.

I don't know about that...it would be an interesting street poll to see what percentage of avg folks would be able to pull it off

Ya know... i really hate to agree with him
But i know a lot of people that have had PC's for years!!!!
anywhere from 20-50 years old and prrety much 99% of them are clueless

How hard is that?

People are not sheep.

[videopoo]

People are not sheep.

Actually they are sheep. Look at all the numbnuts willing to vote for Palin :P

[jagabo]

Google search: "How to rip a DVD"

How hard is that?

It's very hard if you don't to search for "rip". Most people would search for something like "DVD copy" and end up installing a trojan.

[Noahtuck]

People are smarter than you give them credit for.

I don't know about that...it would be an interesting street poll to see what percentage of avg folks would be able to pull it off

Ya know... i really hate to agree with him
But i know a lot of people that have had PC's for years!!!!
anywhere from 20-50 years old and prrety much 99% of them are clueless

How hard is that?

People are not sheep.

Hey!!!!!!
I never said it was hard for me or you or a 1000 other people, i'm just telling you what i experiance

99% of what i have learned over the last 10+ years was from searching & searching & searching & searching & reading a 1000 times more, it's usually easier and faster looking for yourself then posting "how do i play my dvd on my pc" and waiting for an answer 8)

C'mon, you hang out here!!! here alone you see people asking Q's as simple as, how do i plug in a lamp

:P

And once again (damnit!!! )
I have to agree.... (not about palin) but the masses of people are sheep 8)

[redwudz]

videopoo, your political comments are not welcome here and can be considered a violation of our rules. Please refrain from those type of comments in the future. https://forum.videohelp.com/topic333132-30.html#1897771

Moderator redwudz

[orsetto]

Getting back to the original topic , that announcement regarding a new DVD copy protection coalition is part of a long-dragged-out retail kiosk plan that has been thisclose to getting off the ground for the last three years. The idea is the studios aren't getting any $$$ anymore from their back catalog titles, they are completely locked out at retail because the inventory doesn't turn fast enough to suit monolithic chains like Wal*Mart. To get their foot back in the door, most especially at Wal*Mart, the studios finally agreed to a "DVD-on-Demand" workstation for retailers, not unlike the Kodak "make your own photo enlargement" machines you see at drugstores. This would allow stores to carry a virtually unlimited selection of titles that could be "made to order" while you shop for other items.

Originally the studios backed a design from Sonic Solutions, but the deal fell apart just as it was going to be launched at Wal*Mart (royally pissing off Wal*Mart in the process). At the last minute it was decided the kiosks would have to be compatible with any random blank media a store might have on hand, instead of proprietary pre-CSS-encoded blanks. This caused immense problems because CSS protection apparently cannot be applied "on the fly" to standard DVD-R. Somehow these interconnected companies and the studios have recently figured out how to apply a new "recordable" variation of CSS that is backwards-compatible with existing DVD playback hardware, moving the kiosk concept closer to reality. Hence the hoopla in the trades. Of course, all this really accomplishes is lip service toward the studios: the "new" protection is just as defeatable as the "old" protection for anyone who wants to bother. But if it gets more obscure stuff released and available at more stores, it'll be great.

[groovyone]

Thats insane that you would advocate someone using a product for whatever they want, sure they can use it how they want and melt it down if they want, but they should not be using it how it was not intended as far as content. Yes it is the digital age and no you can not stop everyone from ripping off your content. Qflix, CSS5, Rabbit Lock, Macrovision Rip Guard, Hexalock, these are all ways to help, but not a solution. A real content provider likes to do what they can, I am amazed at how many people get worked up about stealing content.

Like I said, it only keeps the honest people honest.

[aedipuss]

The ability to create copies of the media you've purchased for personal use is a long-accepted facet of the fair-use doctrine in U.S. copyright law. The First Amendment and the 1976 Copyright Act came long before the DMCA.

It is we the people who should be suing the protection providers for their violations of our established rights, not to mention repeal of all DMCA type legislation.

Watch out maybe someday soon the EFF house will fall on you...

[gadgetguy]

No, it makes criminals of honest people trying to use the content they bought for their own uses. Let me give you a scenario so you can understand why this whole concept is bothersome.

You produced the movie, "The Stepford Wives". I'm teaching a theater class and I want to highlight the differences in directing and acting styles, so I purchase The Stepford Wives, both the 1975 version and the 2005 remake. It's only a 50 minute class so I obviously can't show even one of the whole movies in class, but even if I could, that wouldn't set up the discussion I want to have with my class. I would like to select a couple of short clips from each movie to compare and contrast, and embed them into a powerpoint presentation for the class. I think this clearly falls under the fair use intent for educational purposes, but the copy protections don't allow me to extract those clips and since I'm not a pirate, I don't know how to bypass them.

So by your own admission, you've failed to keep pirates from making as many illegal copies as they want, but you've kept a law abiding citizen, with the hopes of learning from your art, from using your material in a perfectly legal and even desirable fashion.

[Supreme2k]

The same guys that will take the time to break the copy protection are the same kind of guys who would break your car window to pull out your stereo so I guess the case can be made not to lock your door.

You, "sir", are a complete *******.

You are just like any other idiot who equates copyright infringement to breaking and entering: an idiot. A kid (or adult) who downloads a song or rips a DVD will not automatically be a violent criminal. As a matter of fact, white collar crime rarely coexists with physical crime.

But you go ahead and slide down that slippery slope. Say that people who view porn on the internet go out and commit rape. Kids who play Doom will go and shoot up their school. All people who play GTA3 will commit, um...GTA.

[groovyone]

That is crazy, so by that thinking you should be able to go to your neighbors house and steal his DVD collection. Theft is Theft. I am sure the only people who are very ani copy protection are the ones who are stealing. Yes there are some places where it would be nice to use them for education, your school can probably make arrangments but just because its a school doesnt mean its ok. If I made a movie I would not want someone to take it without permission no matter who it is, but I would gladly grant a school the right to use a few clips, and yes it is allowed to back up for personal use, but how many people would really keep it home for personal use and how many would give it to there friends or sell it for that matter. Come on I am not stupid you dont want to just back up for your own use.

I also have to say that I am a little amazed, I just wanted to talk about copy protection and how it is changing, even if you are not for it I would think that it is interesting and you could talk about it rather than cry about how easy it is to beat and how wrong it is.

[Seeker47]

The ability to create copies of the media you've purchased for personal use is a long-accepted facet of the fair-use doctrine in U.S. copyright law.

But probably not for long, the way things are going . . . .

[gadgetguy]

You completely missed the point. The point is that your copyright protection scheme places a burden on the law abiding and does nothing to prevent piracy. This is inherently wrong.
Fair use rights were granted in copyright law to allow certain things to be done without the need for "arrangements" or permission. If I want to use a clip from your movie to demonstrate just how badly a scene could be shot, I doubt you'd be willing to give "permission", but fair use rights allow it. Because of fair use rights, if I want to show a snippet during a scalding review, I would neither request nor require your permission to do so. Your copy protection schemes are an end run around fair use permissions granted to consumers in copyright law. If you want to stop pirates then concentrate your efforts on pursuing and prosecuting them, and stop punishing the innocent.

[thecoalman]

but I would gladly grant a school the right to use a few clips, and yes it is allowed to back up for personal use,

You apparently don't understand how the law works. Fair use would allow for the excellent example provided by Gadgetguy, you have no say as the copyright owner. The only reason it's illegal is because you have to break the encryption to do it. If the disc had no encryption on it then he would be within his rights to do it.

Whether you have the right to make backups of your discs is debatable because its never been tested in a court of law because again its illegal to circumvent the encrytprion. It never will be unless thr section regarding breaking encryption in the DMCA is repealed.

You mileage may vary by country.

[Supreme2k]

You had a chance for rebuttal, but instead:

You are just like any other idiot who equates copyright infringement to breaking and entering: an idiot. A kid (or adult) who downloads a song or rips a DVD will not automatically be a violent criminal. As a matter of fact, white collar crime rarely coexists with physical crime.

That is crazy, so by that thinking you should be able to go to your neighbors house and steal his DVD collection. Theft is Theft. I am sure the only people who are very ani copy protection are the ones who are stealing.

Thereby re-proving your idiocy. Copyright infringement does not equal physical theft (or theft at all). If I stole my neighbors DVD collection, he would no longer have that collection. That is real theft. If he made isos from his collection and put them on p2p, that is unauthorized distibution (still not a violent or physical crime). I'm still waiting for you to say that a rape scene in a movie equals a real rape (or you can substitute murder, bank robbery, etc.). Tell me, if I take your picture with a camera, does it steal your soul? (trick question, as you obviously do not have one.)

How is it that you can offer copy protection, yet you know so little about ones and zeroes?

[aedipuss]

Come on I am not stupid you dont want to just back up for your own use.

but you are being stupid, you can't and don't have a clue of why i'd want to copy something. if one of my kids wants to watch a movie we own on his zune, why should i have to break the law to do it? if i have a blu-ray copy of a movie and no br player in the room i want to see it in why shouldn't i be able to make a dvd copy of it?

it's been who's got the most money and influence in washington for far too long. bribery, paid vacations and campain contributions shouldn't get corporations pet laws past that violate established rights.

[SCDVD]

That is crazy, so by that thinking you should be able to go to your neighbors house and steal his DVD collection. Theft is Theft. I am sure the only people who are very ani copy protection are the ones who are stealing. Yes there are some places where it would be nice to use them for education, your school can probably make arrangments but just because its a school doesnt mean its ok. If I made a movie I would not want someone to take it without permission no matter who it is, but I would gladly grant a school the right to use a few clips, and yes it is allowed to back up for personal use, but how many people would really keep it home for personal use and how many would give it to there friends or sell it for that matter. Come on I am not stupid you dont want to just back up for your own use.

I also have to say that I am a little amazed, I just wanted to talk about copy protection and how it is changing, even if you are not for it I would think that it is interesting and you could talk about it rather than cry about how easy it is to beat and how wrong it is.

We had a forum member called ROF. He was an amazing piece of work. He finally got banned because of his obnoxious and accusatory ways. But some of us kind of miss his obnoxious diatribe. We were wondering; since you sound a lot like him, would you like to take his place?

[groovyone]

Taking content is the same as stealing someones DVD. There are people who sell there content who make there living and take there time and hard earned money to create it. It is not cheap to film a movie, even a corporate video or and indie film. It is time consuming and expencive. The only way to get that investment back is to sell the content, and if people copy it and give it to there friends or sell it to there friends then that developer is losing money. I dont imagine everyone here has to agree with me. And I am not trying to be a dick abou it. I just would like to see good responsible use of content. If people did not abuse the system then there would be no need for copy protection, the problem is that people do. Of course there are exceptions to every rule but I would like to see good movies and music keep coming out. I am not saying any of you are ones that would take this without good reason but those who do ruin it for the rest of us wouldnt. I am not even the one where I work that does it, but I thought it wa very cool that it can be done now and opened up more ways to use video content. I am a designer and if someone was stealing my work and using it I would be botherd by that as well. If I was taking photos and someone stole them and used them it would be wrong. Its the same with video.

I guess not everyone has to agree, and we all have our own thoughts. I just wanted to say what I thought and if anyone wants to talk about it and how it may change the industry then I am cool, but I am done with the back and forth name calling and trying to tell someone how worthless there ideas or beliefs are.

[stiltman]

We had a forum member called ROF. He was an amazing piece of work. He finally got banned because of his obnoxious and accusatory ways. But some of us kind of miss his obnoxious diatribe. We were wondering; since you sound a lot like him, would you like to take his place?

Wiping soda off my monitor

[Supreme2k]

FYI,
there = directional (incorrect for your usage)
their = possessive (correct)

Taking content is the same as stealing someones DVD.

Again, you are confusing "copying" with "taking". You are basically saying that if I cut up a picture of someone, then I have murdered that person.

I dont imagine everyone here has to agree with me. And I am not trying to be a dick abou it.

But you have achieved that, and so much more.

I just would like to see good responsible use of content. If people did not abuse the system then there would be no need for copy protection, the problem is that people do.

In the days of "Don't Copy That Floppy", most software had no protection, yet software creators thrived, even though it was simple to copy.

I would like to see good movies and music keep coming out.

That's more of a script-director-actors problem than piracy.

If I was taking photos and someone stole them and used them it would be wrong. Its the same with video.

You are still using a physical world analogy.
With copyright infringement, sometimes you just have to wait until it happens and act then, rather than treating everybody as a potential criminal. Like in our office, we have a coffee honor setup. You pay a quarter for a cup of coffee, which goes into buying more coffee. We know that there are freeloaders (lots of them), but we still make enough for more coffee plus extra.
Obviously, DVD content creators aren't hurting too bad if they can make six different versions of a film, causing consumers to have to double/triple/quadruple dip. Anyone remember the Lord of the Rings era?

but I am done with the back and forth name calling and trying to tell someone how worthless there ideas or beliefs are.

Not if you keep calling data copiers violent criminals.



BTW, I will always be there to go toe-to-toe with ROF or any of his successors.
It's what i do.

[groovyone]

Thank you so much for correcting my spelling..lol, you are so smart.

And to compare cutting up a photo to killing someone, that is really far off. Taking someones content is stealing, flat and simple. It is theft.

[stiltman]

Taking someones content is stealing, flat and simple. It is theft.

Is it theft if I buy a DVD but I want to watch it on my smart phone, so I convert it and then load it on my phone?
I used tools to break the DVD encryption.

[SCDVD]

Hey groovyone, Since you are actually using this forum to spam your company, I was able to look at your web site because your company tag line and URL are in your signature. I can see that you have a pretty wheezy operation from the picture you have on your web site. So I suspect you are trying to scratch up an income anywhere you can find it. Times are tough these days. So I have a helpful suggestion for you. Perhaps you can get a part time job at a library guarding their Xerox machines. You could grill people about their intentions before they are allowed to use the copiers to copy anything. I imagine that would make you feel warm and fuzzy all the way to your toes.

[lordsmurf]

People are smarter than you give them credit for.

I don't know about that...it would be an interesting street poll to see what percentage of avg folks would be able to pull it off

I agree with videopoo. Videohelp.com is home to thousands of above-average consumers. Joe Sixpack (now "Joe the Plumber") has no idea how to do this, doesn't care, and won't try after the initial error. His time on Google will be spent buying crapware that probably won't work either, thanks to Google-whored top-page results (paid placements). I would use this if it were a license, with unlimited use, that only ran up to a point. My fear, however, is that the CSS on the disc would be tied to the license, and potentially used against the disc creator (or supposed disc creator -- even if it were a stolen license!) if it appeared on some sort of illegal disc. So for that reason, I'd be wary of it.

Taking content is the same as stealing someones DVD. There are people who sell there content who make there living and take there time and hard earned money to create it. It is not cheap to film a movie, even a corporate video or and indie film. It is time consuming and expencive. The only way to get that investment back is to sell the content, and if people copy it and give it to there friends or sell it to there friends then that developer is losing money. .

Fix the business model. You need XYZ profit, you know the nature of society. Rather than gripe about the constants (which you cannot fix, period), adjust the variables so that it positively affects the bottom line. If you are not good with marketing and sales, and you give it away for $5, and squander opportunities at profit, that's you're own fault. Your business model sucks. Fix it. No, it's not easy. Yes, you may need help. Yes, it can be done.

HI was able to look at your web site because your company tag line and URL are in your signature. I can see that you have a pretty wheezy operation from the picture you have on your web site.

I think he's off to a good start. But the keyword is "start". It needs more work. But it's by far above average, compared to a lot of the sleezy-looking sites I see online trying to peddle services.