15hours of footage on 2 DVDs possible?

[itsme1]

lordsmurf, thanks.

Okay then, I give in... I'll go with the 3 DVD option...

What's the PAL equivalent? At 352X488 (PAL) @ 2000 VBR ?

Isn't that cutting it a little close considering that I have 12hrs 35mins AND also, I have to do menus?

Thanks you all for your suggestions, I'll let you know how I go....

[itsme1]

352 X 576 (PAL) I guess..

https://www.videohelp.com/dvd

I'll be using Vegas 7.0 btw, I'm sure it has a decent enough encoder.

[lordsmurf]

352x576.
Vegas uses the MainConcept encoding engine, it's good

[FulciLives]

Even 2000kbps is a bit "low" for MPEG-2 at Half D1 resolution (352x576 PAL) so be sure you set it to a 2-pass VBR encode. That will help a lot vs. doing a 1-pass CBR encode.

I basically agree with LordSmurf. I'm simply pointing out that you want to do a 2-pass VBR encode for best quality.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[itsme1]

When you say @ 2000 VBR, what do you mean?

I looked at Vegas last night and it had VBR settings, but there was a maximum, minimum and average. Do you mean that I should set the maximum VBR @ 2000? Or is that the average? Or is it elsewhere?

[itsme1]

Also, I ask this question again, is it better to encode this in vegas or DVD architect?

[Nelson37]

VBR numbers are generally given as an average. The min and max numbers are less important, and there is some variation among encoders regarding how these should be spaced.

As for the video quality, for this type of video IMO it does not really matter. You did mention the chalkboard/whiteboard however, which brings up another issue. Does this need to be readable? Is it in the original recording? Encoding may well loose the readability.

If that is important, a possible solution exists which may solve the readability problem, allow the whole thing to fit on one disk, and give significantly better overall picture quality. This method may be well suited to your project, and I am surprised no one has mentioned it.

Make a narrated slide show with full-resolution stills. Most of the college lectures I remember would actually benefit from this method. You might even want to slip in a cheesecake shot every 5 to 10 minutes or so, this may prevent people from falling asleep.

[lordsmurf]

0 min, 2000 avg, 3000 max 2-pass VBR (or hardware VBR)

I think Nelson has the best idea so far: just use a lot of stills in a slideshow with an audio track.

[itsme1]

lordsmurf, I've given in......im going to increase the number of DVDs used and increase quality hopefully. It's taking so much time to do the whole process, it's not worth having the product at lower quality (as you and other have already mentioned a few times).

I've also got more footage now for a total of 16hrs. So now, the question is, how many DVDs to use? I was thinking maybe 5 or 8 DVDs.

If I go with 5 DVDs, the single longest DVD would be 217 minutes or 3hr:37mins.
If I go with 8 DVDs, the single longest DVD would be 156 minutes or 2hr:36mins.

Putting that info into the bitrate calc, I get:
2614 kbits/s for option 1.
3713 kbits/s for option 2.

With these lowish bitrates, would Half-D1 be my only decent option?

I could go with Full-D1 and have option 2 (8 DVDs), but how would it look? Please keep in mind that there's not MUCH movement - as it's a video of the instructor - and only occassional whiteboard usage (which I've zoomed into when recording anyway).

So in summary, I can go with option 1 and have half-D1 only. OR, I can go with option 2 and go with half-D1 for fairly good quality and full-D1 for ....God knows what quality.

You guys have helped me get this far and I thank you for that. What is your advice now?

Other factors to consider:

Sound will be AC3 @ 192 or 224 bits. There will be a menu screen with short, looping audio soundtrack.

What should I do?

[thecoalman]

I'd go with option 1 however bearing in mind your footage has minimal movement option2 might not look so bad at full resolution. Macoblocking is the "enemy" and it's caused by movement, this for example is a MPEG encoded at 720x480 3000CBR, not that the people don't loook bad but the lights on the other hand are terrible, they are moving very quickly so cause a lot macroblocking.

[jagabo]

Use an encoder that supports contant quality encoding. Encode at the quality you want, then put as much as will fit on each DVD.

If nothing else, encode some representative segments at D1 and 1/2 D1 with CQ set to different qualities then examine the average bitrate of the resulting MPEG files. That will tell you what bitrates you'll need if you want to use 2-pass VBR.

If the subject isn't very well lit DV camcorder footage tends to be pretty noisy. That really kills MPEG compression. Moderate spacial and temporal noise filters may help a lot in this case. Especially if the camcorder was tripod mounted.

[itsme1]

Thanks for the advice.

I actually tried the full D1 option, it encoded at about 2500 - 3000 range (reading off PowerDVD), it looked okay on the computer, but really good (relatively speaking) on the TV. Admittedly, its not a HD TV and is about 51cm or something, but man, I was surprised at the clarity. I fit about 3.5 hrs in there. So option 2 is looking good at the moment. Im burning a half-D1 test at the moment, it takes forever - 12hrs. Will test that out tomorrow...

What's a good software to play the DVD on for testing? PowerDVD sucks, it didnt play all the lecture and for some reason, read it as 51 mins, when it was 1:17mins.

[lordsmurf]

VLC

[Midzuki]

Well, here goes my humble suggestion:

Audio bitrate = 192 kbps,
Resolution = 352x480/576,
Constant Quality = 70 or 75,
Min bitrate = 600kbps,
Max bitrate = 2700 kbps,
Quantization Matrix = "Bach1"

{
08 16 19 22 26 27 29 34---16 18 20 22 24 26 28 30
16 16 22 24 27 29 34 37---18 20 22 24 26 28 30 32
19 22 26 27 29 34 34 38---20 22 24 26 28 30 32 34
22 22 26 27 29 34 37 40---22 24 26 30 32 32 34 36
22 26 27 29 32 35 40 48---24 26 28 32 34 34 36 38
26 27 29 32 35 40 48 58---26 28 30 32 34 36 38 40
26 27 29 34 38 46 56 69---28 30 32 34 36 38 42 42
27 29 35 38 46 56 69 83---30 32 34 36 38 40 42 44
}

===========================================

[itsme1]

I really like the clarity of full D1 as opposed to half. I am currently encoding to test with 5 CDs and 8 CDs and will make a choice thereafter.

Maybe I did something wrong in the settings but half D1 didn't look too hot..

[Midzuki]

I really like the clarity of full D1 as opposed to half. I am currently encoding to test with 5 CDs and 8 CDs and will make a choice thereafter.

Maybe I did something wrong in the settings but half D1 didn't look too hot..

Half D1 is always less good than Full D1, and (obviously) less good than a
decently-authored SVCD as well; however half D1 can give surprisingly good results
if the source happens to "want so" ^_^ For example, I have Final Fantasy
TSW recorded on a cDVD; it was encoded in mere 352x480, but the image
is incredibly sharp for such a middle-sized resolution.

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