Need some recorder recommendations.

[godbeer]

Hi Everyone,

My trusty Panasaonic E100 has finally bit the dust after almost 4 years of faithful service. At the time I purchased this player, it was the Holy Grail of dvd recorders and was a no-brainer. Since then I haven't really kept up with what's going on with dvd recorders since I never had any problems with the Panasonic.

My question is, what is the "standout" player now? I'll be using it in conjunction with a hr10-250 high definition directv/tivo unit, vcr, etc.

Output quality is not that important since I just got a toshiba hd-XA2 HD player that will be used for playback.

What I'm looking for is good recording quality, ease of use, Hard drive (A Must), good editing features, etc.

Any recommendations will be very much appreciated.

Thanks,

Roy

[trhouse]

The hard drive recorders of almost every brand have nearly vanished from the US market. Panasonic and Pioneer's last models have been selling at list or higher prices on eBay.

[StuR]

I thought this one looked nice when I was having a look around, it's US only and I don't know when it's coming but it should be soon now.
http://www.dvdrecorderworld.com/news/439

[godbeer]

I thought this one looked nice when I was having a look around, it's US only and I don't know when it's coming but it should be soon now.
http://www.dvdrecorderworld.com/news/439

These do look nice - I wish thery were out now, I could have killed 2 birds with one stone - it would have eliminated my need to purchase the Toshiba HD-XA2.

My next purchase is going to be a blue ray player - do they make blue ray recorders? - I'm prerty sure I saw one. If it's backwards compatible with regular dvd+/-r then it may be something to look at.

Back to the topic of a regular dvd recorder, if they no longer make HDD recorders, I guess the best would be to use a -ram recorder and do the editing either with the machine or on a pc, the use a pc to transfer to dvd-r. Anyone have any opinions on which are the best of the non-hdd recorders? PAL and divx/xvid capability would be nice, since this is one thing I lost when I movied my oppo 970hd to the bedroom to make room for the Toshiba.

Thanks for the reply,

Roy

[p_l]

I thought this one looked nice when I was having a look around, it's US only and I don't know when it's coming but it should be soon now.
http://www.dvdrecorderworld.com/news/439

Actually, I think it's a European model.

[FulciLives]

I've seen websites that deal in multisystem (NTSC/PAL) equipment selling a Pioneer DVR-340 model. This is a "newish" model from Asia that seems to be very similiar to the Pioneer DVR-640 USA model except the DVR-340 only has an 80GB HDD instead of a 160GB HDD but then again it can record in PAL and NTSC plus it is region free out-of-the-box. The only region free drawback is that it does not do PAL<--->NTSC conversion.

My Pioneer DVR-531 finally seems to have stopped wanting to burn and the process to replace the burner is just way too complicated (not to mention I'd have to find the proper now long unavailable DVD burner model) so I've been thinking of getting the DVR-340 as a replacement. Seems most places are selling it for $380 USD to $400 USD.

However Pioneer recently released two different models in the Canadian market ... the DVR-550 (160GB HDD) and the DVR-650 (250GB HDD). Both of these can be found on the Canadian BEST BUY website. These are even newer than the DVR-340 but are locked to Region One and can only do NTSC recording. Also the DVR-340 comes with the same style remote as the older models whereas the newer 550/650 comes with a new remote that seems to be overly simplified (based on pics I've seen of it).

The only "drawback" to all of these models ... no ATSC/QAM tuner(s). However if you have cable/satellite then this really isn't that big of a deal breaker if you ask me.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

P.S.
Here is a link to the Pioneer DVR-340: CLICK HERE
Please note this link is to 220-Electronics which is a reliable place to buy multisystem equipment even if their website design tends to be a bit "sloppy". For instance the picture they have of the DVR-340 is the wrong pic LOL. Reliable as they are it is not uncommon for their website to be a bit "sloppy" but don't let that scare you away. They are reliable and usually have the best if not at least a comparable price to other similar websites.

[trhouse]

There is a new DVR-540 on eBay right now at $280. It will be gone in the next hour. Looks like it has scart connectors on the back and the remote may have a flip open door for more functions.

[jman98]

My next purchase is going to be a blue ray player - do they make blue ray recorders? - I'm prerty sure I saw one. If it's backwards compatible with regular dvd+/-r then it may be something to look at.

They do. They're hard to find AND expensive. Try $1000+. That's out of the price range of most people I think.

[RabidDog]

My trusty Panasaonic E100 has finally bit the dust after almost 4 years of faithful service.

Hardly all that trusty if it crapped out on four years . Unless you use it for a dog sled?

Which bit went wrong? 10 years should be the expected minimum lifetime for stuff like this, with a 3year mfr gtee (that would ensure good reliability). You should be mentioning your CE stuff in your will!

[godbeer]

My trusty Panasaonic E100 has finally bit the dust after almost 4 years of faithful service.

Hardly all that trusty if it crapped out on four years . Unless you use it for a dog sled?

Which bit went wrong? 10 years should be the expected minimum lifetime for stuff like this, with a 3year mfr gtee (that would ensure good reliability). You should be mentioning your CE stuff in your will!

It's not completely dead - it will still play back programs that i have stored on the hdd. It just won't recognize an input signal or either it's just not passing it through. It was working fine before i unhooked it to set up a new tv i just bought.- but when i hooked it back up - no picture. i've tried all the output ports, with no luck. It seems like ithis happened before and it was a simple setting that i had inadvertantly changed, but i've tried everything over the past couple of days with no luck.

thanks for the reply,

Roy

BTW: what does my "CE stuff" stand for?

[pinetop]

Have you contacted Panny about getting it repaired?
I believe Panny has a set fee repairs, if you like your model it maybe the way to go.

[godbeer]

Have you contacted Panny about getting it repaired?
I believe Panny has a set fee repairs, if you like your model it maybe the way to go.

I haven't yet because I was set on getting a new recorder - i never liked the sloppy editing of the panasonic. However, since hdd recorders are so scarce, that's what i'm going to check into.

Thanks

[FulciLives]

I'd go with one of the Pioneer models.

Here is another nice one I found: Pioneer DVR-541H

This one has a 160GB HDD with a price of $445.00 USD which really isn't that bad considering it is an import version.

Basically this would have all the same features of the now next-to-impossible-to-find DVR-640Hs USA model except the DVR-541H import model can record in NTSC as well as PAL and offers region free playback (although no PAL<--->NTSC conversion).

In short I still feel that the Pioneer HDD equipped DVD recorders are the best around. The only reason we don't have any current USA models is due to the whole ATSC/QAM tuner issue. Apparently Pioneer is waiting for a good solution. Seems most of the USA models out now with ATSC/QAM tuners have a lot of tuner issues that the next generation of chipsets will resolve. Once that happens I'm sure we will see new USA models of the Pioneer stuff. Until then there are the Canadian units I mentioned (in my other post in this thread) or the Asian import units (the DVR-340 and DVR-541 etc.)

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

P.S.
I have attached a PDF file to this post. This PDF file is the official Pioneer brochure for the Asian models (the DVR-340, DVR-541 and the DVR-640). Please note the Asian DVR-640 model is a bit different than the USA DVR-640 model. The Asian DVR-541 model is actually the closest in features to the USA DVR-640 model. The Asian DVR-640 is a step up from the USA DVR-640 in that it has a larger HDD and a few more extra features.




dvd_recorder_06-07.pdf

[FulciLives]

Here are some links for the Canadian models:

1.) Pioneer DVR-550H with 160GB HDD

2.) Pioneer DVR-650H with 250GB HDD

Both of these links go to the official Canadian Pioneer website.

According to what I've read these have very recently gone on sale. I know the Canadian BEST BUY website has them listed.

The Canadian models are newer than the Asian models and have some features NOT on the Asian models. The most important being HDMI 1080p output scaling capabilities. I don't know how important that really is ... depends on your HDTV and what other equipment you may or may not have.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[godbeer]

I'd go with one of the Pioneer models.

Here is another nice one I found: Pioneer DVR-541H

This one has a 160GB HDD with a price of $445.00 USD which really isn't that bad considering it is an import version.

John,

Thanks for all the help! I was planning on spending around $500 anyway, so this may just fit the bill. I'm going to read through the .pdf and if it has everything I want it to (which is basically good editig features), I may go for it.

Thanks again,

Roy

[FulciLives]

I'd go with one of the Pioneer models.

Here is another nice one I found: Pioneer DVR-541H

This one has a 160GB HDD with a price of $445.00 USD which really isn't that bad considering it is an import version.

John,

Thanks for all the help! I was planning on spending around $500 anyway, so this may just fit the bill. I'm going to read through the .pdf and if it has everything I want it to (which is basically good editig features), I may go for it.

Thanks again,

Roy

I have a Pioneer DVR-531 which is older compared to all of the models I recently mentioned but basically the same.

The DVR-531 has great editing BUT you must edit on only "I" frames and in MPEG-2 video there is only one "I" frame in every 15 frames. This means your editing will never be more accurate than 1/2 of a second.

Now the DVR-531 does allow you to edit on ANY frame ... not just "I" frames ... but IF you do THAT then the ENTIRE video will get re-encoded when you copy it from the HDD to a DVD disc ... something you want to avoid if at all possible. It has two modes ... FRAME ACCURATE editing (which re-encodes) and NON-FRAME ACCURATE (the "I" Frame method which does not re-encode). This makes it easy to know what mode you are in so you can't "screw" up.

I assume these newer Pioneer models work the same way. I know the USA DVR-640 works the same way.

I will say that editing is very easy-to-do with the Pioneer models. Also the Pioneer models support VBR recording bitrates (the bitrate will go up and down as needed) and you have "set" recording modes (like 1 hour, 2 hour, 4 hour etc.) as well as manual control where you can set the recording time in increments of 5 or 10 minutes ... thus allowing you to maximize your bitrate. This is a feature SO many other DVD recorders do not have. For instance if you are recording a 2 hour TV show and want to start the timer a couple minutes early and a couple minutes late ... to ensure you don't miss the very start or very end ... then you can set the Pioneer DVD recorders to 2 hours and 10 minutes and not have to worry about it. On other DVD recorders you would have to go to the next "set" recording speed which often times is 3 hours if not 4 hours. It makes no sense to record 2 hours and 10 minutes in a 4 hour mode ... or even a 3 hour mode.

Also the Pioneer menu is easy-to-navigate and the editing is also very easy-to-do so overall you have an easy-to-use product, with great features and of course excellent image quality.

The only other brand that comes close are the HDD equipped Toshiba models but right now the current generation of the USA models are no longer available and I've seen no new announcement other than non-HDD equipped models and those Toshiba models lack many of the great features found on the HDD-equipped Toshiba models (like being able to set the bitrate to a time that will optimize your recording quality ala the Pioneer models).

So unless you can find one of the Pioneer or Toshiba USA models ... which is highly unlikely at this point ... you have to go with one of the Pioneer imports.

Please note that Panasonic does make some HDD-equipped models in the USA but the image quality is not as good as the Pioneer and Toshiba models plus the way Panasonic implements "bitrate control" is very poor (only works when you set it up for a "programmed recording" and I've heard it doesn't even work all that well on the newer models).

The only "bad" thing about the Pioneer DVD recorders ... and very nearly all DVD recorders work this way ... is that it will use Full D1 resolution until you get to like the 4 hour mark (or beyond). This is bad. The switch from Full D1 resolution to Half D1 resolution should happen by 3 hours (if not before). The work around is to never record more than say 2 1/2 hours and if you have to record longer than that then make sure you use a high quality recording mode and just edit the program to "break it up" into chunks and burn it across 2 or more DVD discs rather than trying to get it all one one DVD disc by using a longer recording time (like the 4 hour mode).

I'll give you an example ... let's say you have a 4 hour recording you need to make. Instead of using the 4 hour mode and putting it on one disc (with shit quality) you can instead record it in the 2 hour mode then cut it in half (on the HDD) then burn it to two DVD discs (with excellent quality).

Of course my model Pioneer does not record to Dual Layer DVD discs. All of the newer models mentioned here do support Dual Layer DVD discs. So if you record a 4 hour program at the 2 hour mode ... it should fit on a single Dual Layer DVD without having to edit it into two chunks for two separate DVD discs.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

P.S.
I wanted to add that their are computer MPEG-2 editing programs ... namely MPEG-VCR and VideoReDo ... that will allow you to edit on ANY frame and if it is NOT an "I" frame then ONLY the frames around the edit point get re-encoded ... as opposed to the entire video. So if you use the Pioneer DVD recorder to edit in "I" frame mode (so as to avoid re-encoding) but you still have some "snippits" of stuff you couldn't edit out ... you can always "fine tune" the editing on your computer using MPEG-VCR or VideoReDo.

I normally burn everything to a DVD-RW and import it to my computer so I can do fine tune editing (if needed) and then import into TMPGEnc DVD Author so I can create a nice custom menu with custom chapters etc.

Then I just re-use the DVD-RW for the next recording.

[godbeer]

I have a Pioneer DVR-531 which is older compared to all of the models I recently mentioned but basically the same.

The DVR-531 has great editing BUT you must edit on only "I" frames and in MPEG-2 video there is only one "I" frame in every 15 frames. This means your editing will never be more accurate than 1/2 of a second.

Now the DVR-531 does allow you to edit on ANY frame ... not just "I" frames ... but IF you do THAT then the ENTIRE video will get re-encoded when you copy it from the HDD to a DVD disc ... something you want to avoid if at all possible. It has two modes ... FRAME ACCURATE editing (which re-encodes) and NON-FRAME ACCURATE (the "I" Frame method which does not re-encode). This makes it easy to know what mode you are in so you can't "screw" up.

I assume these newer Pioneer models work the same way. I know the USA DVR-640 works the same way.

I will say that editing is very easy-to-do with the Pioneer models. Also the Pioneer models support VBR recording bitrates (the bitrate will go up and down as needed) and you have "set" recording modes (like 1 hour, 2 hour, 4 hour etc.) as well as manual control where you can set the recording time in increments of 5 or 10 minutes ... thus allowing you to maximize your bitrate. This is a feature SO many other DVD recorders do not have. For instance if you are recording a 2 hour TV show and want to start the timer a couple minutes early and a couple minutes late ... to ensure you don't miss the very start or very end ... then you can set the Pioneer DVD recorders to 2 hours and 10 minutes and not have to worry about it. On other DVD recorders you would have to go to the next "set" recording speed which often times is 3 hours if not 4 hours. It makes no sense to record 2 hours and 10 minutes in a 4 hour mode ... or even a 3 hour mode.

Also the Pioneer menu is easy-to-navigate and the editing is also very easy-to-do so overall you have an easy-to-use product, with great features and of course excellent image quality.

The only other brand that comes close are the HDD equipped Toshiba models but right now the current generation of the USA models are no longer available and I've seen no new announcement other than non-HDD equipped models and those Toshiba models lack many of the great features found on the HDD-equipped Toshiba models (like being able to set the bitrate to a time that will optimize your recording quality ala the Pioneer models).

So unless you can find one of the Pioneer or Toshiba USA models ... which is highly unlikely at this point ... you have to go with one of the Pioneer imports.

Please note that Panasonic does make some HDD-equipped models in the USA but the image quality is not as good as the Pioneer and Toshiba models plus the way Panasonic implements "bitrate control" is very poor (only works when you set it up for a "programmed recording" and I've heard it doesn't even work all that well on the newer models).

The only "bad" thing about the Pioneer DVD recorders ... and very nearly all DVD recorders work this way ... is that it will use Full D1 resolution until you get to like the 4 hour mark (or beyond). This is bad. The switch from Full D1 resolution to Half D1 resolution should happen by 3 hours (if not before). The work around is to never record more than say 2 1/2 hours and if you have to record longer than that then make sure you use a high quality recording mode and just edit the program to "break it up" into chunks and burn it across 2 or more DVD discs rather than trying to get it all one one DVD disc by using a longer recording time (like the 4 hour mode).

I'll give you an example ... let's say you have a 4 hour recording you need to make. Instead of using the 4 hour mode and putting it on one disc (with shit quality) you can instead record it in the 2 hour mode then cut it in half (on the HDD) then burn it to two DVD discs (with excellent quality).

Of course my model Pioneer does not record to Dual Layer DVD discs. All of the newer models mentioned here do support Dual Layer DVD discs. So if you record a 4 hour program at the 2 hour mode ... it should fit on a single Dual Layer DVD without having to edit it into two chunks for two separate DVD discs.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

P.S.
I wanted to add that their are computer MPEG-2 editing programs ... namely MPEG-VCR and VideoReDo ... that will allow you to edit on ANY frame and if it is NOT an "I" frame then ONLY the frames around the edit point get re-encoded ... as opposed to the entire video. So if you use the Pioneer DVD recorder to edit in "I" frame mode (so as to avoid re-encoding) but you still have some "snippits" of stuff you couldn't edit out ... you can always "fine tune" the editing on your computer using MPEG-VCR or VideoReDo.

I normally burn everything to a DVD-RW and import it to my computer so I can do fine tune editing (if needed) and then import into TMPGEnc DVD Author so I can create a nice custom menu with custom chapters etc.

Then I just re-use the DVD-RW for the next recording.

Man, you are a wealth of information (and a fellow Fulci Freak to boot)- I can't thank you enough. You have sold me on the Pioneers - any pointers on where to get the Dvr-640 - I did a web search but didn't find it for sale.


Thanks again,

Roy

[FulciLives]

Man, you are a wealth of information (and a fellow Fulci Freak to boot)- I can't thank you enough. You have sold me on the Pioneers - any pointers on where to get the Dvr-640 - I did a web search but didn't find it for sale.

Thanks again,

Roy

The DVR-640H-s is the USA model. It is no longer being made. Chances of finding one that is still brand new and unopened is next to nil.

The DVR-541H is the Asian model and for all intents and purposes it is the same as the DVR-640H-s (the USA model) except the DVR-541H actually has a few features that the DVR-640H-s (USA model) did not have. Most notable being the inclusion of a DV/FireWire/IEEE 1394/i.link input. Also it can record in NTSC and/or PAL and is region free.

To make matters even more complicated there is an Asian DVR-640H that is a step up from the Asian DVR-541H model. Again you can think of the Asian DVR-640H as being the same as the USA model except the additional features ala the DVR-541H model PLUS the Asian 640 model has a 250GB HDD. The 640 (USA model) and the 541 (Asian model) only have a 160GB HDD.

If you are going to go with one of the Asian models I think the best bang for your buck is the DVR-541H model. Granted the Asian DVR-640H has a bigger HDD (160GB vs 250GB) and an additional feature or two but I don't feel it is worth the extra money.

I have to admit that the Canadian models are interesting but I'm not sure how "worth" the price and more importantly the difficulty (if you live in the USA) in obtaining one.

There are many USA based websites that sell the Asian models. I don't know of any "easy" way to buy and ship the Canadian models to the USA.

Here are some websites that offer the Asian Pioneer DVD recorders (in no particular order):

http://www.220-electronics.com/
http://www.world-import.com/
http://www.dvdoverseas.com/
http://www.regioncodefreedvd.com/
http://www.samstores.com/
http://www.110220volts.com/
http://www.planetomni.com/

I have personally bought items from the first two on this list.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

P.S.
There is a new Asian model (DVR-645H) that is the same as the DVR-640H (Asian Model) but adds HDMI output with 1080i scaling. Interesting in that it only does 1080i whereas the Canadian models do 1080p.

Last but not least ... here is the official Pioneer website that has the info on the various import Asian models:
http://www.pioneer.com.sg/

I might as well also include the official Pioneer Canadian website:
http://www.pioneerelectronics.ca/

[FulciLives]

I thought this one looked nice when I was having a look around, it's US only and I don't know when it's coming but it should be soon now.
http://www.dvdrecorderworld.com/news/439

I just noticed this ... I have to admit that the Toshiba RD-97DT sounds like a nice HDD equipped DVD recorder. Assuming it operates the same as the older models (specifically the RD-XS34 and RD-XS35 models) then this might actually be a good choice.

I still would pick Pioneer over Toshiba but I admit that Toshiba has made some nice HDD equipped DVD recorders in the past (again specifically the RD-XS34/35 models).

In all seriousness one would be happy to have either the Pioneer or Toshiba. I consider all other HDD equipped DVD recorders to be garbage in one regard or another.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[Sean Nelson]

any pointers on where to get the Dvr-640 - I did a web search but didn't find it for sale.

It may not be of much use for you, but FWIW there are still new models available in at least some of the Future Shops here in Vancouver. They're the same 640H-S models that were sold in the US, and they're selling for Cdn$369.99.

[FulciLives]

any pointers on where to get the Dvr-640 - I did a web search but didn't find it for sale.

It may not be of much use for you, but FWIW there are still new models available in at least some of the Future Shops here in Vancouver. They're the same 640H-S models that were sold in the US, and they're selling for Cdn$369.99.

To my knowledge Future Shop will not ship to the USA.

At least I tried to order the 550 model (wasn't actually going to order it as I don't have the money but I wanted to see the shipping options) and when I got to the shipping options the only options were Canadian address.

Of course I canceled the order.

Maybe I missed something?

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[Sean Nelson]

...when I got to the shipping options the only options were Canadian address.

To the best of my knowledge the 640 was removed from the Future Shop web site a few months ago. I was referring to the boxed stock still available in the retail stores here in Vancouver (hence the "It may not be of much use for you" disclaimer...)

[FulciLives]

...when I got to the shipping options the only options were Canadian address.

To the best of my knowledge the 640 was removed from the Future Shop web site a few months ago. I was referring to the boxed stock still available in the retail stores here in Vancouver (hence the "It may not be of much use for you" disclaimer...)

Well when I get the money together I'll send it to you and you can buy me a Canadian Pioneer DVD recorder and then mail it to me.

I don't know anyone in Canada but you ... don't you feel special now!

OK ... OK ... OK ...

I'm joking :P

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[StuR]

StuR wrote:
I thought this one looked nice when I was having a look around, it's US only and I don't know when it's coming but it should be soon now.
http://www.dvdrecorderworld.com/news/439


Actually, I think it's a European model.

whoops, your right! wasn't clear until I searched again it was launched in London in March.
so where the hell is it?

[Seeker47]

John,
Thanks a lot for posting all that info, the links, and .PDF. More remaining options than I knew about. One thing to remember -- if it matters to anyone -- is that probably none of those outfits are authorized Pioneer dealers. And those models may not be acknowledged here by Pioneer, for the U.S. market. So, any service / warranty is going to be through 220-electronics or whoever one winds up buying it from.

The DVR-531 has great editing BUT you must edit on only "I" frames and in MPEG-2 video there is only one "I" frame in every 15 frames. This means your editing will never be more accurate than 1/2 of a second.

This is usually no big deal, if one chooses edit points carefully.

Now the DVR-531 does allow you to edit on ANY frame ... not just "I" frames ... but IF you do THAT then the ENTIRE video will get re-encoded when you copy it from the HDD to a DVD disc ... something you want to avoid if at all possible. It has two modes ... FRAME ACCURATE editing (which re-encodes) and NON-FRAME ACCURATE (the "I" Frame method which does not re-encode). This makes it easy to know what mode you are in so you can't "screw" up.

This is the one point where I think you are probably mistaken. The 520 had a default of Frame Accurate Editing (though you could specify Non-Frame in SETTINGS), which caused me a certain amount of confusion on the 640, where you are asked to choose each time. For movies, I routinely trim "margin for error" pieces off of the head and tail end, as nearly all of these are Timer Recordings, and I long ago learned to take the published schedule times as approximations. For those regular shows I happen to be saving, I remove all of the commercials, before they are moved off to DVD. All of these edits are usually done Frame Accurate. As far as I know, re-encoding on these machines is strictly a real time copy. No way you're gonna re-encode a movie in just 7 - 10 minutes (frequently seen times for HS copy to SL media). I just did a couple of these. I thought it might have something to do with their being no cuts within the contiguous movie, but I'm close to certain this also applies to the all-commercials-deleted shows. If I'm wrong about this, then I'm not really noticing a quality difference between the results of the two Edit options. (But most of the recordings are done at MN26 or better, less important stuff or old B&W movies at SP. I don't go any lower than that, unless it is just some panel of talking heads.

You will see the re-encoding if you need to squeeze a MN28 recording down to SP, in order to fit it onto a SL disc. Then, if the movie has a 1:45 running time, it's gonna take you an hour and 45 to dump it off to disk. The caution you may have been thinking of is the warning that with the Frame Accurate choice, your exact Edit Points may SHIFT on you, when burning the item to DVD.

. . .
Also the Pioneer menu is easy-to-navigate and the editing is also very easy-to-do so overall you have an easy-to-use product, with great features and of course excellent image quality.

We are in full agreement here . . . some perennial naysayers notwithstanding.

P.S.
I ... you can always "fine tune" the editing on your computer using MPEG-VCR or VideoReDo.

I normally burn everything to a DVD-RW and import it to my computer so I can do fine tune editing (if needed) and then import into TMPGEnc DVD Author so I can create a nice custom menu with custom chapters etc.

Then I just re-use the DVD-RW for the next recording.

Man, that sounds like much too much work, on a routine basis. I could see doing that for the few special projects. The Menu templates and Thumbnails you get on these machines are very limited, though.

[FulciLives]

I am almost 100% that if you do frame accurate editing on the Pioneer that it will re-encode the entire video.

But hey I could be wrong

Also the DVR-640H-s (USA model) is newer than my DVR-531H-s so maybe it was changed.

I could test it but my 531 has pretty much decided not to burn anymore so ... so much for testing.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[Kgriffin2523]

Hi guys-
Hope I do not sound too clueless..... but here goes....

My Panny DMR-E85H is having probs.... it is stuck in "Please Wait Mode".... I tried many suggestions on other forums.... nothing worked-- hence it is going in for repair..... If the cost is too high, I may consider a new machine.... After reading posts on this forum, it seems that it will be hard to find a similiar unit.... I loved the hard drive and editing abilities.....

Can anyone clue me in on WHY these types of machines are now scarce in the US ? The Panasonic people tell me that there is less of a demand for them due to the Cable DVR boxes...... I have one thru Comcast--- but there is no way to edit out commercials...... I used to tape movies on my cable DVR box- then transfer to the DVD, edit out commercials if any, then burn to a disc...... To me-- this is the best of all worlds...... Can't figure out why no one is making these machines in the US........

Another ?...... if I purchased a Canadian model, would there be any issues that I would come across that would prevent me from taping, editing, etc...... any incompatability issues? It seems like repair may be a problem with a Canadian model.....
Any thoughts?
Karen

[trhouse]

I too have a Pioneer 531H. The comment that frame accurate editing does not lead to re-encoding is correct. I did a test with a TV show with commercials edited out with frame accuracy. Copying this edited program to a dvd causes a message that "high speed copying in video mode may result in edit points moving slightly" appears but the time it takes to copy to dvd is the same as before the edits which was only a few minutes.

There is a thread about the disappearance of hdd recorders here,

https://www.videohelp.com/forum/archive/dvd-recorders-with-hdd-are-disappearing-t327523.html

[FulciLives]

I too have a Pioneer 531H. The comment that frame accurate editing does not lead to re-encoding is correct. I did a test with a TV show with commercials edited out with frame accuracy. Copying this edited program to a dvd causes a message that "high speed copying in video mode may result in edit points moving slightly" appears but the time it takes to copy to dvd is the same as before the edits which was only a few minutes.

I translate this to the following:

If you want to do HIGH SPEED COPY then the frame accurate editing will be changed to the nearest "I" frame so no re-encoding will be done. Hence HIGH SPEED COPY is possible since no re-encoding is done.

Granted this is only a guess.

As an aside ... I am a bit pissed that my 531 doesn't burn anymore. Seems a lot of people have had this problem but I never heard of any of the newer models having this problem.

I mean yes the machine is a great quality machine for how it works as well as the quality of the image etc. but damn I just don't make enough money to buy a new one anytime soon. I've only had the damn thing for 2 years ... actually not even that long!

I'll still buy Pioneer for my next DVD recorder but god only knows when I'll have this kind of extra money laying around again ... these days I can barely pay "the bills" little alone have another $400 to spend on anything unessential.

It basically boils down to Christmas and I was shooting for either a PS3 or Xbox 360 this year ... it's either that or a new DVD recorder.

*sigh*

Sorry for the rant but I went from a job that paid nearly $30,000 a year (when I bought the Pioneer DVR-531H-s) to a job that pays $22,000 a year. It's really ******* up my life! I mean I have to juggle the damn bills (and I'm living as low as I can ... at least in a reasonable sense of "low") ... can't even pay those all in full every month ... little alone worry about buying a $400 anything. I did just find out that everyone is getting a $1.00 raise ... a slightly delayed response due to the increase in the minimum wage ... but even an extra $160 a month is a drop in the bucket when your base is a crap hole $22.000 *sigh*

Sorry ... end of rant.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[Sean Nelson]

If you want to do HIGH SPEED COPY then the frame accurate editing will be changed to the nearest "I" frame so no re-encoding will be done. Hence HIGH SPEED COPY is possible since no re-encoding is done.

Yes, that is what happens.

I am a bit pissed that my 531 doesn't burn anymore. Seems a lot of people have had this problem but I never heard of any of the newer models having this problem.

My 633 (same generation as yours) has burned about 1000 discs and is still going strong. I did have a hard drive crash about 18 months after I bought it (which was fixed under extended credit card warranty), but so far the burner is fine [knock wood].