Converted analog film movies to BMP/JPG: now to AVI and then DVD

[Wimpie44]

The old analog films (no video!) are converted. All individual film/movie pictures are converted to BMP/JPG pictures. The speed of the old films/movies was 18 frames/sec. All the individual pictures/frames of the analog films (NO VIDEO!) are now recorded in BMP/JPG on HDD of the PC as a sequential batch of images/pictures.

The advise was to use Virtual DUB and select 18 frames/sec to convert the picture/frame stream of the old films/movies (now in bmp/jpg format on HDD) to AVI format.

1/. I encounter issues in importing the BMP/JPG files to Virtual DUB. Is it possible that the sequence numbering of the individual pictures (JPG/BMP) is according to some rules. I copy and paste all JPG/BMP files to Virtual DUB window, but only the first picture is shown. No grabbing happens. What is wrong ?

2/. some get some test AVI as outputfile, but when they want to burn the AVI movie to DVD the burning program encounters issues/problems and no DVD is produced. What is wrong ?

Tips to solve issues/problems appreciated.
I am new in video but I want to learn.

Is there a commercial or free program that makes it possible to input all seperate still pictures of a movie as input to the program with 18 frames/sec (old fashioned analog movie speed) and then burn the movie/film to DVD ? Which program(s) could be used ?
I checked and installed a lot of burning software as well as video utilities, but they all have their limitations and do not provide the solution for this simpel problem. I expect many people have converted their old analog movies/films (Super8) to the digital environment.
Tips / advice appreciated.
Thanks in advance,
Wim

[guns1inger]

1. Virtualdubmpeg2 -> File -> Open File. Change the File Type to Image Sequence, and select the first image in the numbered list. Virtualdubmpeg2 should then import the rest happily if they are numbered sequentially.

2. What DVD software are you using ? What format avi file did you create ? You haven't given enough information to be able to really help you with a specific problem. The general process, however, is to encode your avi file to DVD compliant mpeg-2 (see What is DVD - top left corner - for details), then author to DVD, and finally, burn the results to disc.

[manono]

Is it possible that the sequence numbering of the individual pictures (JPG/BMP) is according to some rules.

Yes. OK:

0001
0010
0100
1000

Not OK:

1
10
100
1000

Also, are you opening an Image Sequence? That's what it says in VDubMod. I don't know what VDub itself says.

What is wrong ?

Could be lots of things. Is the resolution DVD compliant? Is the framerate DVD compliant? 18fps isn't a good framerate for either NTSC or PAL DVD.

I am new in video but I want to learn.

And you're starting with this? Didn't you ever hear, "Walk before you run"?

Is there a commercial or free program that makes it possible to input all seperate still pictures of a movie as input to the program with 18 frames/sec (old fashioned analog movie speed) and then burn the movie/film to DVD ?

Yeah, AviSynth's ImageSource command used in a script and frameserved to an MPEG-2 encoder such as the freeware HCEnc. But again, 18fps isn't acceptable for DVD.

http://avisynth.org/mediawiki/ImageSource

You could encode it for PAL DVD and then run DGPulldown afterwards for 18->25fps to have it output the required 25fps. That's how I'd do it.

[Wimpie44]

1/. Input sequence numbering of BMP/JPG files is OK.

2/. analogue Super8 is based upon 18 frames/sec.

3/. PAL is 25 fps.

4/. I can save an AVI files with Virtual DUB which shows both with WMP11 18 fps as well as 25 fps. The second video is a little too fast. (18->25). No compression selected in VD.

5/. Burning programs: a lot of them installed, not for doing this conversion, but usable for different type of situations. Some of them AShampoo Burning Studio 7, Nero v.7+ Ultra.

6/. PC's are stable in local as well in networked environment. No issues.

Issues in 18/25 fps conversion as well as codec config in VD.

[guns1inger]

What you should be doing from virtualdub is frameserving to an mpeg-2 encoder. However given how you have described your PC and the other problems you seem to be having, it sounds like a classic case of scattergun problem solving. You don't understand what you are doing, so you have installed lots of needless garbage (like Ashampoo) and now have a fairly unstable system with conflicting software and lots of crashes.

[vhelp]

@ Wimpie44

The process might come out better if you *rename* all those BMP (or JPG) files using
a new numbering scheme. In this excercise, we'll use BMP (BITMAP) for our image
format.

If your total BMP files were 1,000 then you would want to pad with 4 zero's.
0000, 0001, 0002 .. 0998, 0999, 1000.

Or, if your total BMP files were 50,000 then you would want to pad with 5 zero's.
00000, 00001, 00002 .. 49998, 49999, 50000.

Thus..

For a total of 100,000 BMP files, then you would want to pad with 6 zero's.
000000, 000001, 000002 .. 099998, 099999, 100000.

video_000001.bmp
video_000002.bmp
.
.
video_009997.bmp
video_009998.bmp
.
.
video_099997.bmp
video_099998.bmp
video_099999.bmp
video_100000.bmp

Then, when you open the first video_000001.bmp file in virtualDub, the
remaining numbered BMP files will be included. I would recommend that you DRAG the
first file from the folder that contains all the BMP (or, JPG) images. When you go over to
the \File\Open\, you might have to make sure that [x] Automatically load linked segments
is first checked, and then proceed to let it open the remaing BMP files as a sequence.
Then, when you cursor-right or cursor-left in virtualDub, you'll see what looks like a video.

Where you see the '0' 's, this means padding with zero's, so that the number, when sorted,
will not brake the sequence importing. You need the padded (length of) zero's !!

The next step to this is to change the Frame Rate. In virtualDub, you would do the
following:

** on the menu bar, click \Video\Frame rate\(o) Change to [18 ]

You type in, 18, at the (o) Change to field, and click [OK] button.

Then you are ready to encode your video.. ie, to XviD; DivX; or whatever compression
codec you choose, or, if your goal is DVD (aka, MPEG-2) then you can frameserve this
over to your software MPEG Encoder and proceed to encode to an MPEG-2 file. Make
sure that your mpeg encoder project is changed to 18 fps prior to encoding!

From there, you can use the method that Manono described, using Pulldown, to
convert your newly encoded MPEG-2 file's frame rate of 18 fps, to 25 fps, assuming you
are aiming based on the PAL format.

-vhelp 4324

[manono]

Make sure that your mpeg encoder project is changed to 18 fps prior to encoding!

If I'm understanding you correctly, he'll have to actually encode at a DVD compliant framerate(as I found out recently), so 18fps isn't so good. He'll probably want to encode for 25fps. When done, he'll have a fast playing 25fps MPEG-2 video. The DGPulldown step at the end will "reset" the speed so that it actually plays at the correct 18fps framerate, with repeated fields to comply with the 25fps requirement.

[vhelp]

Make sure that your mpeg encoder project is changed to 18 fps prior to encoding!

I wrote that to imply that his next step (for DVD) would be to convert the 18 to 25 through
the pulldown route. At first, I was going to say he could do that in TMPGenc and provide
the method. But after testing it out (as I wrote that post) TMPGenc did not have that option
included in its frame rate conversion field, and the manaul [setting] feature still couldn't do it.
So I gave up, and I revised my thoughts to include your method, instead

-vhelp 4325

[Wimpie44]

@ guns1inger
@ manono
@ vhelp

The process might come out better if you *rename* all those BMP (or JPG) files using
a new numbering scheme. In this excercise, we'll use BMP (BITMAP) for our image
format.

This is solved already: status OK.

The next step to this is to change the Frame Rate. In virtualDub, you would do the
following:
** on the menu bar, click \Video\Frame rate\(o) Change to [18 ]
You type in, 18, at the (o) Change to field, and click [OK] button.

This is what the Super8 to BMP/JPG shop recommended too, as well as Virtual DUB.
DVD PAL is 25 fps, and Super8 analogue images is based upon 18 fps will show to fast.
I have done 18 fps as well as 25 fps.
--->
In the same window there is a section: frame rate conversion, with an option: convert to fps: xxx. I do not know the purpose of this option.
Could this solve 18/25 fps difference issue ?

Then you are ready to encode your video.. ie, to XviD; DivX; or whatever compression
codec you choose, or, if your goal is DVD (aka, MPEG-2) then you can frameserve this over to your software MPEG Encoder and proceed to encode to an MPEG-2 file.

This is the point which is unclear to me.
What is "frameserve over to your MPEG encoder" ?
I understand what has to be done, not How it has to be done.

Make sure that your mpeg encoder project is changed to 18 fps prior to encoding!

HOW ?

From there, you can use the method that Manono described, using Pulldown, to
convert your newly encoded MPEG-2 file's frame rate of 18 fps, to 25 fps, assuming you
are aiming based on the PAL format.

I was thinking on prepare all on 25 fps. Then Pulldown to 18 fps and burn.
This means 25 fps DVD PAL with effective 18 fps in correct speed.

Walking is learned by trying, by experience. By looking how others do.

[manono]

I was thinking on prepare all on 25 fps.

Yes, that's what you want to do, I think. But not by adding more frames - not by keeping it the same length - but by speeding it up and shortening the length, keeping the frame count the same. Afterwards, DGPulldown with the custom box checked and 18->25fps filled in will straighten it out again.

You could actually change the framerate to 25fps by adding in duplicate frames. For 2 reasons I, personally, would never do it that way. One is that you'll be encoding duplicate frames needlessly, wasting valuable bits. The other is that the video will play with much more stutter or jerkiness than if you do it the DGPulldown way. But if you do add frames to convert to 25fps (keeping it the same length), it will play at the speed you want, and you'll no longer need to apply DGPulldown afterwards. You might even try both methods and see which you prefer.

What is "frameserve over to your MPEG encoder" ?

VDub isn't an MPEG-2 encoder, but an AVI encoder. But it can "prepare" the video with filtering and such, before then "sending it out" or frameserving to a real MPEG-2 encoder. It's much slower and somewhat inferior to frameserving via an Avisynth script, but if this is all you're prepared to do, then so be it. There's a frameserving-with-VDub guide somewhere around here:

https://www.videohelp.com/virtualdubframeserve.htm

[Wimpie44]

What I did in the meantime was Virtual DUB input of JPEG files set to 18 fps and 25 fps.
From these files I produced without compression AVI files based upon 18 fps and 25 fps.

Both AVI18 and AVI25 files were used as input in Nero 7 to produce a DVD18 and a DVD25 without DGPulldown.

I did not burn DVD but burned imagedrives on the harddisk as ID18 and ID25.
When I play ID18 the videospeed is correct. With ID25 the speed is to high (1,388x to fast).

I can input the imagedrives to burn a real DVD.
I do not expect issues when ID18 is burned to DVD.

[manono]

When I play ID18 the videospeed is correct.

Then it probably has duplicate frames added.

With ID25 the speed is to high (1,388x to fast).

Then run it (MPV or M2V only) through DGPulldown for 18->25 to slow it down, or did you understand nothing about what we were saying?

I won't comment on the rest of what you said, partly because I didn't understand the stuff about imagedrives, and partly because I wouldn't touch Nero 7 with a 10 foot pole.

[Wimpie44]

With ID25 the speed is to high (1,388x to fast).

Then run it (MPV or M2V only) through DGPulldown for 18->25 to slow it down, or did you understand nothing about what we were saying?

Most of what is stated is clear to me.
With the exception of: My goal is DVD (aka, MPEG-2) then I could frameserve this over to your software MPEG Encoder and proceed to encode to an MPEG-2 file.
I understand the why, not the how.

Can you explain this to me?

Add. comment:
An Imagedrive is a virtual copy of a CD/DVD that can be physically burned. So you can test a CD/DVD before by a Preview from the harddisk, without chances of CD/DVD being wasted when something is wrong. So a CD/DVD is not needed for the test.


I will use DGPulldown and look what the result is. Then I will compare the results with the other method and then make a choice. I feel my preference would be what you indicated.

Thanks in advance.

[manono]

Can you explain this to me?

That's what the link 2 posts up was for, to explain how to set up and use VDub as a frameserver. I don't use VDub for frameserving myself, although it's not at all difficult to do, so if the guide doesn't help, maybe someone else can explain it. And I don't know what encoder you're using for this (Nero 7?), or if the one you use accepts frameserved files. All the decent MPEG-2 encoders do, though.

An Imagedrive is a virtual copy of a CD/DVD that can be physically burned.

Must be similar to or identical to using DaemonTools to mount an IMG or ISO to test the DVD before burning to disc. OK, I understand, and thanks for the explanation.