HELP! A to D Conversion using VIVO NVidia Card?

[TechJunkie]

Hi,

I've tried to be considerate and do a "Search" of these forums but didn't find my question, so here it is:

First: Quick background before the quick question.

I want to convert my Hi-8 Analog video to DV files. My impression reading your posts is that editing in DV is superior to editing in MPEG-2. My vision is to convert to DV, edit and then convert to 480 x 480 MPEG-2 to burn SVCD disks for some friends and also burn VCD MPEG-1 disks for others. I would like to archive the DV masters and, when the DVD standard settles out, be able convert to 720 x 480 MPEG-2 in the future. Until we save the bucks to buy a new DV camcorder, I would like to use my Hi-8 analog unit for another year or so.

I'm not interested in watching TV on my PC, just A to D - the ATI AIW class of product would be a waste for me.

So here’s the question: do I buy a special-purpose Dazzle Hollywood-type setup that is reported to be excellent at A to D, and use it as a doorstop after we buy a DV camcorder down the road? …or will the NVidia Titanium 2 or 3 VIVO products do an equivalent job of A to D conversion. Because these video treasures are of my kids a few years back, I want to have little/no video/audio information loss.

I have a fairly powerful PC and, if it can be used with a VIVO-type video card, I'd like to save the money that I would have spent on a Dazzle and use it for the DV camcorder instead.

Thank-you. Am anxiously looking forward to your opinions.

[TechJunkie]

Bump.

Has no one had any experience with this? If I can't find my answer in these forums, where might I look?

Thanks,

[JHebert]

The DV bridge devices like the Dazzle Hollywood or Sony Media Converter provide very high quality capture as long as your source is good quality. The DV AVI format is good for editing and for conversion to MPEG to create SVCD or DVD.
However its kind of expensive at around 300 for the DV bridge, plus another 50 for a Firewire/1394 PCI interface card. Since you are planning to get a DV camcorder in the future you could save money for now and use either your GeForce VIVO card, or get a simple WinTV type PCI capture card based on the BT878 chipset. I can't comment on the GeForce but I have used BT878 cards with good results. Use a software AVI codec such as Huffyuv or PicVideo. You have a very fast system so you should be able to capture up to 720x480 no problem with proper system setup. This can give you quality comparable to the DV bridge setup.
You also said you plan to archive the AVI captures for future use in DVD authoring. These AVI formats all use up a lot of hard disk space very quickly. DV compression is around 4MB/sec, PicVideo is similar and Huffyuv uses even more disk space. You can burn the AVI files to CD-R to free up your hard drive, but you won't fit many minutes on each CD. Instead you may want to just create SVCD for now, and switch to DVD as the prices come down.
Hope that is helpful.

[TechJunkie]

Mr. JHebert,

You are my hero for replying! (Perhaps a bit of an overstatement but, really, thanks!)

I was under the impression that DV and AVI files could be compressed to 1/8th of their original size in a ZIP-like fashion. This is not to be confused with a compression technique that I've read about that produces a playable-compressed file where video/audio information is lost or discarded. (The Dazzle folks told me that this was included with their Dazzle Hollywood product.)

Let me parrot back to you what I believe you advised me. You've indicated that a VIVO graphics card, when powered by a healthy CPU/memory/disk setup, has the capacity to convert analog video to DV or AVI with the same quality as some of the dedicated-purpose devices like the Dazzle Hollywood. You've also told me that, while you're not familiar with the NVidia VIVO per se, you are reasonably sure this is true with VIVO products that you've seen.

Does the speed of the GPU/Graphical Processing Unit affect VIVO performance? There are NVidia products with different GPU's that have the VIVO feature. Not being a gamer who needs screaming graphics, I'd like to buy the NVidia GeForce 2 Titanium rather than the GeForce 3 and save the bucks.

Great news from you, JHebert. The answer that I had hoped for. I'll save my money and apply it towards a DV rig.

[JHebert]

I was under the impression that DV and AVI files could be compressed to 1/8th of their original size in a ZIP-like fashion.

The DV codec uses a fixed compression ratio of around 5:1. When you shoot with a DV camcorder, or capture in DV format using a DV Bridge, the video is compressed about 5:1 compared to raw uncompressed video. I don't think that ZIP or other compression methods as commonly used on regular computer data files would have much if any effect to compress video any further.
Note that DV is just one of many possible AVI codecs. Huffyuv, PicVideo, DivX, Cinepak, Indeo, etc are other available AVI codecs.
MPEG is a different codec but also a different file format.
If Dazzle was claiming 1/8 the original size, they probably meant that you could transcode from DV codec AVI files to another more compressed AVI format like DivX, or to MPEG for VCD/SVCD/DVD, or to a Web streaming format like Real Video or Windows Media. These are all "output" formats and are much more compressed than DV which is generally a "capture and editing" format.

Let me parrot back to you what I believe you advised me. You've indicated that a VIVO graphics card, when powered by a healthy CPU/memory/disk setup, has the capacity to convert analog video to DV or AVI with the same quality as some of the dedicated-purpose devices like the Dazzle Hollywood.

That's correct. A fast system is necesary because the CPU and a software based codec is doing the work that a DV bridge does with specialized encoding hardware. Provided your system is up to snuff, a software based codec like Huffyuv or PicVideo can produce great capture quality.

Does the speed of the GPU/Graphical Processing Unit affect VIVO performance?

As far as I know the GPU (GF2 or GF3) has no effect on video capture performance since the encoding work is done by the CPU (Athlon or P3/P4). I think the GPU is mostly relevant for pumping out a lot of polygons for 3D gaming and rendering applications.

[TechJunkie]

The DV codec uses a fixed compression ratio of around 5:1. When you shoot with a DV camcorder, or capture in DV format using a DV Bridge, the video is compressed about 5:1 compared to raw uncompressed video. I don't think that ZIP or other compression methods as commonly used on regular computer data files would have much if any effect to compress video any further.
Note that DV is just one of many possible AVI codecs. Huffyuv, PicVideo, DivX, Cinepak, Indeo, etc are other available AVI codecs.
MPEG is a different codec but also a different file format.
If Dazzle was claiming 1/8 the original size, they probably meant that you could transcode from DV codec AVI files to another more compressed AVI format like DivX, or to MPEG for VCD/SVCD/DVD, or to a Web streaming format like Real Video or Windows Media. These are all "output" formats and are much more compressed than DV which is generally a "capture and editing" format.

There's so much that I don't know... I love it.

So, I learned something new: that DV is a flavor of AVI and uses a "DV" codec.

Follow-up question: my impression after perusing this website is that the DV encoded video is superior to analog Hi-8 and SVHS. This would imply that, since my home video is in analog Hi-8 format, converting to DV would preserve the video information inherent in that lower quality analog format.

It would also imply that, if I wanted to buy an editing program that would work with both my converted-analog DV material as well as material shot on my yet-to-be purchased DV camcorder, I should inquire as to whether the GeForce-based VIVO graphics card comes with a DV codec.

Let's see if I have this technology model correct: the professionals in Hollywood must use an AVI codec that allows for the capture of exceptional high resolution video and audio information. There must be high-end editing tools for this codec and the resulting files must be enormous. This is the reason that the professionals use large RAID 0 data arrays and high-end UNIX systems as their platforms.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

Thank-you so much for helping a highly motivated "newbee". 8)

[JHebert]

You are correct that DV digital recording is generally superior to Hi8 or SVHS analog recording, although some may debate the degree to which this is true. Converting from Hi8 or SVHS or whatever to DV will not improve the quality of the original source, but will enable you to preserve it and get it into a digital format in the PC with the best quality possible.

Most editing programs allow you to capture and edit in a wide variety of AVI codecs but there may be some that are limited to DV AVI only. Make sure the editing program you get supports the codecs and formats you plan to work in.

I'm not sure if there is a software DV codec that would let you capture to DV AVI using a VIVO type analog capture card instead of a DV camcorder or DV bridge, but maybe someone knows of one. Generally DV codec is associated with DV camcorders and DV bridge capture devices.

Note that it is possible in some programs to capture and edit directly in MPEG format instead of AVI, but it is more difficult and generally less flexible than AVI editing. Also the quality is usually not as good as capturing and editing in AVI and converting to MPEG in software. MPEG is best used as an output format (ie VCD/SVCD/DVD) in my opinion.

Regarding professional video production, you are correct that they use very high end video equipment and powerful production workstations with RAID disk arrays and other high bandwidth hardware.
While DV is a great digital consumer to semiprofessional format, there are higher quality digital recording standards available for professional use like uncompressed D-1, DigiBeta, DVCam, DVC50, etc. and also analog formats like BetaSP are still popular and very high quality.

The great thing is that with modern PC hardware and consumer level video equipment you can create video that would have taken thousands of dollars worth of professional equipment to produce a few years ago. Of course the average home videographer is no Steven Speilberg but still I think its amazing what you can do.

[Askan]

Hello,

I did't found the answer on my question in the forum, so maybe there is somebody, who has or had the same problem and found a solution.

I'm not able to capture video without dropped frames. I've already read the topic "No more dropped frames".
No way.

I want to copy VHS to CD.

I think it is a problem with the sync. With the same tape I have in 10 min. 300 dropped frames and on an other position 70.

I"ve tested it on both HD"s. No difference.

How can I solve this problem. Putting through the TV? Does it help?

Or is this a problem of my hardware? s.b. If yes, is there a solution?


Athlon TB 1200 (100)
Asus A7V 133 (No Via bug)
SB Live Value
448 MB RAM (Siemens)
Elsa Erazor III Vivo (Capture Card)
Maxtor 13 GB 5.400 (System)
Maxtor 30 GB 7.200 (Scratch)
Win 98SE
Newest Elsa drivers

[TechJunkie]

Because so many people reported frustrations when converting analog to digital using VIVO cards, I ordered a Dazzle Hollywood DV-Bridge. It should arrive in a few days and am anxious to try it out. Bought it for US$229. The reviews have been excellent. We'll see... 8)

[OptimusPrime22]

Don't forget that you need to purchase a firwire card so you will be able to connect the Hollywood Bridge to your pc.

[TechJunkie]

OptimusPrime22,

Put in a Firewire card when I built my rig.

Thanks.

BTW, do you have experience with the Hollywood?