Blockbuster chooses Blu-ray: is the war over?

[SingSing]

A very large part of BluRay resistance are based on anti-Sony sentiment. If that really run deep, then even Bluray win this bd/hd format war, there will be a crowd ( Never buy anythings from that So** ) that will just opt out of the disc player. BluRay Press is Sony only, will only fuel that feeling.

[rhegedus]

Key word for me is Microsoft. For that reason alone I will never buy HD DVD.

But you don't mind using Microsoft WINDOWS (whatever version) :O
Why is that?
(don't tell me because your fav. game doesnt run on your other linux PC or Mac LOL)

And your Windows is a Microsoft product, while HD-DVD has as much in common with MS as your old socks...
What a hipocrite.

Do we really have a choice with our OS?

[gotnotime]

Key word for me is Microsoft. For that reason alone I will never buy HD DVD.

But you don't mind using Microsoft WINDOWS (whatever version) :O
Why is that?
(don't tell me because your fav. game doesnt run on your other linux PC or Mac LOL)

And your Windows is a Microsoft product, while HD-DVD has as much in common with MS as your old socks...
What a hipocrite.

Actually, I don't use Windows much anymore either. I have a dual boot system with Linux and Windows XP. After some initial frustration trying to get my built in wifi card to work, I pretty much just use Linux these days. As for games, I use my wii when I have the time. My original point was to point out that Microsoft is a major backer of HD DVD and quite a few people don't like them, including myself. I support Linux as an alternative to prevent a monoply by Microsoft. and that is never good for consumers. Besides, windows still sucks, and is a huge memory hog that wastes CPU time on poorly written, inefficient code.

[raffie]

I have never understood the hate againts a company be it microsoft, sony, or your local druggstore. Personally i feel that unless the company has come to your house, pissed on your carpet, burned your furniture and raped your wife/mother you have no reason to really HATE it. If you dont feel like buying their stuff, don't. If a company sells crap products, it'll face teh consequences, but seriously for a sec, why whould anyone hate Windows? It's a fine product that is overpriced but, like, the percentage off ppl using it having actually payed for it isnt that high.

[DereX888]

I have never understood the hate againts a company be it microsoft, sony, or your local druggstore. Personally i feel that unless the company has come to your house, pissed on your carpet, burned your furniture and raped your wife/mother you have no reason to really HATE it. If you dont feel like buying their stuff, don't. If a company sells crap products, it'll face teh consequences, but seriously for a sec, why whould anyone hate Windows? It's a fine product that is overpriced but, like, the percentage off ppl using it having actually payed for it isnt that high.

Dude, why such drastic examples?

How about this one:
You buy a music CD, go home, and you listen to it in your car player while driving home.
Then, when you took this CD home and inserted it in your home stereo, suddenly your stereo would accuse you of trying to be a THIEF because you have already played this CD in your car player, and if you want to play it on another player you must buy another CD.
Is that good example of being fucked in the ass by a company?
Because thats what basically happens when you *buy* music infected with DRMs (luckily it doesn't happen with CDs, but only because there was no such technology when CDDA standard was implemented).

Or this one (Sony):
Buy one of their many CDs.
Try to play them on any newer CD player - many of them can't play their "CDs" ("CD" because they don't bear standard Audio CD logo anymore, and those are NOT a standard audio CD anymore either...).
So you try to play it on your PC (which almost every one of them have standard and non-standard capable CD drive).
You think "fine, at least it plays here".
But unbeknowst to you, while playing music, the CD also installs a hidden software that spies on you and reports to Sony everything youve been listening to, and God knows what else.
Is that not good example of being fucked again by a corporation, and isn't good enough reason to at least avoid such company's products?

You tell me.

If only Sony shot your gramps, or burned your sofa, it would be just simple case of criminal code...


Oh, and I have no problem with Windows as an OS.
And as a MSFT shareholder I seriously don't think Windows is overpriced IMHO Vista is TOO CHEAP!!!
Anyways.
I use 2 favorite distros of linux, but I also use Windows 2000 even more than linuxes, why? Simply because I have no choice.
There isn't even 1/10 of the tools available for all the linux distros alltogether as there are just for any single Windows version
Because of Microsoft's domination, sheer majority of software writers have no cjoice but to write their software for Windows and Windows only (due to R&D costs ).
After all its business, obviously no one is going to invest in R&D for an OS that has maybe 10% of the market share, similarily as it is with games for Macs, same reason why there is handful of them available for Macs.
Its all fine, Im not complaining *that*.
In a home users market I have no doubt Windows would be the most popular anyways. There isn't anything easier for moms & pops than Win98 was, or WinXP is (edit: why not Macs? Because they are too proprietary, with no choices at all if you compare them to all the wealth of PC's hardware options, and no one likes monopolists).
But its the corporate market that counts, and don't tell me companies, corporations, and governments (!!!) volunteered to chose inferior, buggiest, and the least safe operating systems on the market for their offices? It sounds like an absurd, doesn't it? :/
In a fair and square market, Microsoft would have never gotten such giant slice of the corporate market as it has, it happened only because of their dirty business practices.
It was all fine when their Windows resided on a puny home computers. But once they stepped in into corporate and government markets, their buggy and full of security holes like a swiss cheese software became direct danger to general public's well-being.
List of *known* security vulnerabilities in NT-based windowses (NT/2000/XP/Vista) exceeded ten thousand some time ago already IIRC, and what about holes known to Msoft's coders with access to the source code? Usually its just a tip of an iceberg what is generally known...
So, do you really want such software to control directly or indirectly your vital public services? heh.
Would you install Windows Vista to control nuclear power plant's processes? Yeah, I didn't think so So tell me again how Microsoft Windows is such fine product LOL
Unfortunately thats where Microsoft's typical corporate greed is pushing their Windozes. They already "conquered" banking market last year too. Do you trust Vista to keep your funds safe? Its a serious question
I guess it takes some huge disaster on Wall Street - something like 9/11 but in a "cyberworld" - for most of people to finally realise, how dangerous for all of us is to use such crappy operating systems on a government or corporate levels.
You bet that the muslim religious fuckups are studying hard as of this moment, and one day they will succede to do much more harm to all of us than hundred 9/11s at once. We were very fortunate that they preferred AK machine guns rather than the keyboards so far (specially some 10 years ago when even CIA ran Windows NT servers LOL), but they aren't as stupid nor backward as our governments want us to think.

Your lack of imagination (of what can happen to you as well *when* terrorists hijack some major buggy windows-run computers) doesn't make it less dangerous to you or me. Isn't it reason enough to hate Microsoft? Or do you really have to wake up one day without electricity, water and in a total chaos?
Unless youre some lucky resident of Tahiti or such... or you will simply blame 'cyber-terrorist' instead of buggy OS manufacturer of childish security software... then yeah, maybe *you* don't have any reason to hate Microsoft for its domination...

Actually, I don't use Windows much anymore either. I have a dual boot system with Linux and Windows XP. After some initial frustration trying to get my built in wifi card to work, I pretty much just use Linux these days. As for games, I use my wii when I have the time. My original point was to point out that Microsoft is a major backer of HD DVD and quite a few people don't like them, including myself. I support Linux as an alternative to prevent a monoply by Microsoft. and that is never good for consumers. Besides, windows still sucks, and is a huge memory hog that wastes CPU time on poorly written, inefficient code.

All I can say is GREAT!


If only more people were willing to educate themselves just a bit and swap their PC's OSes with something better, we would have had much many more video tools for linux distros, and there would be no need to keep any Windoze box at all...

But again: Microsoft has nothing to do with HD-DVD.
Or it has as much, as supporting MP3s in their windozes - AFAIK they were first to include Fraunhofer & Hauspie's first MP3 codecs... therefore you shouldn't use MP3s either by analogy

[SingSing]

Long post but clearly get the points across.

[rhegedus]

DRM what?

BD has already been ripped and stripped.

[SatStorm]

So HD-DVD...

DRM is a bad idea. IMO.

[gotnotime]

[quote="DereX888"
But again: Microsoft has nothing to do with HD-DVD.
quote]


Whaaat? Did you forget about X-box 360??? Without that HD-DVD would be dead already. Microsoft has big stakes in HD-DVD

[DereX888]

[quote=gotnotime]

Whaaat? Did you forget about X-box 360??? Without that HD-DVD would be dead already. Microsoft has big stakes in HD-DVD

I didnt.
IMHO Msoft chose HD-DVD because it was already here when x360 was RTM, and back then HD-DVD was hailed as 'winner'
Sony actually have closer ties with Msoft than any other company, Im sure Msoft would go with BR rather if Sony didnt drag their asses as usual.

[rhegedus]

Yeah, because recordable HD has been so quick.

No, wait....

[Nilfennasion]

Sony actually have closer ties with Msoft than any other company, Im sure Msoft would go with BR rather if Sony didnt drag their asses as usual.

Pretty much all of Sony's marketing successes of the past thirty years have been by accident rather than by design. I bet that if Sony had been able to see how much more difficult it would be in 2000 to get people to adopt new formats, they would have held the CD-DA specification back until it was more matured. Just a few more kilohertz, more bits, or more channels would have made such a big difference.

About the only marketing success they can claim they deliberately worked at is the PlayStation 2, which they expended so much money on in the form of advertising that they were practically paying people to play the thing. If it had been marketed by a company like Sega or Nintendo whose sole income is games, the PlayStation 2 would have never gotten out of the red.

If anything, new formats are being brought to market too rapidly. Arse-dragging is a virtue in this day and age where it takes us years to pay off pieces of equipment that are obsolescent within months, if not weeks.

[DereX888]

Yeah, because recordable HD has been so quick.

No, wait....

There are recordable drives on xbox?
no, wait... i got it youre just BR fanboi

[rhegedus]

Yeah, because recordable HD has been so quick.

No, wait....

There are recordable drives on xbox?
no, wait... i got it youre just BR fanboi

Ah yes, that's right - the 'fanboi' defence.

BD outselling HD 3:1 is because I'm a fanboi.

No HDR media a year after BDR media hit the shelves... must be because I'm a fanboi.

[lordsmurf]

Okay, well if you're not a fanboy, then you're certainly far more enthusiastic than the average bear. I don't understand the fascination some folks have with certain topics, in certain situations (such as the seeming celebration of one unproven product currently outperforming another unproven product by a relatively small degree).

Comparing HD to BD is like comparing cat shit to dog shit. They both stink.

[rhegedus]

Okay, well if you're not a fanboy, then you're certainly far more enthusiastic than the average bear.

I like gadgets....

Comparing HD to BD is like comparing cat shit to dog shit. They both stink.

Is that opinion or fact?

[Grain]

...the seeming celebration of one unproven product currently outperforming another unproven product by a relatively small degree.

This statement taken completely by itself I can agree with, neither format is guaranted to succeed yet IMO.

Comparing HD to BD is like comparing cat shit to dog shit. They both stink.

That's complete rubbish. Neither is even close to perfect, but a good release on either HD-DVD or BluRay is a vast improvement over SD DVD. To say otherwise is just naive.

[bbanderic]

Take it for what it's worth department....I was in Circuit City today looking at the HDTV's and Sony's new Blu-Ray player. http://www.circuitcity.com/ssm/Sony-Blu-ray-Disc-Player-BDP-S300/sem/rpsm/oid/184588/r...oductDetail.do

The salesman said I should hold off on the Blu-Ray player, which lists at $499, he said Sony's new player is going down to $299 at Christmas time.

[edDV]

Take it for what it's worth department....I was in Circuit City today looking at the HDTV's and Sony's new Blu-Ray player. http://www.circuitcity.com/ssm/Sony-Blu-ray-Disc-Player-BDP-S300/sem/rpsm/oid/184588/r...oductDetail.do

The salesman said I should hold off on the Blu-Ray player, which lists at $499, he said Sony's new player is going down to $299 at Christmas time.

That is one poor salesman.

[FulciLives]

Take it for what it's worth department....I was in Circuit City today looking at the HDTV's and Sony's new Blu-Ray player. http://www.circuitcity.com/ssm/Sony-Blu-ray-Disc-Player-BDP-S300/sem/rpsm/oid/184588/r...oductDetail.do

The salesman said I should hold off on the Blu-Ray player, which lists at $499, he said Sony's new player is going down to $299 at Christmas time.

That is one poor salesman.

Exactly. He should have sold you on a HD-DVD player :P

[Nilfennasion]

The salesman said I should hold off on the Blu-Ray player, which lists at $499, he said Sony's new player is going down to $299 at Christmas time.

What it is worth is that Blu-Ray's market penetration is increasing rather than diminishing as is the case with HD-DVD. Contrary to what some people who are ignorant of what goes on in the home video industry might think, prices from a manufacturer (or consortium) that has a majority market share do not go down because a manufacturer thinks "we've got a crap product, let's unload it quickly and move on to a new one". They go down because manufacturers and content producers think "the early adopters have taken to it, let's cut back a bit on our markup so we can start getting the cautious types more interested".

EDIT: That brings me to another point, actually. The rebates on HD-DVD players in spite of diminishing market share are a competitive reaction, and not one that is likely to win any battle, leave alone a war. The reason HD-DVD players are coming down along with Blu-Ray is because HD-DVD players being $1500AU while Blu-Ray players are $900AU and falling would kill HD-DVD even faster than the disparity in studio support is.

I have almost never bought or owned a product that has subsequently been phased out due to demand or the lack thereof. In fact, MiniDisc not withstanding, "never bought" becomes more a case of "never". And I have said it a zillion times already. I am not declaring BD the victor because I am a "fan". It is because all of the films I would go without food for days to afford to see in high-def are either available on BD, expected on BD within a matter of weeks, or BD exclusive. It was enough of a nail in the coffin for HD when Corpse Bride, Casino Royale, and X-Men 2 were declared BD exclusive. Now that RoboCop is a BD exclusive, someone literally has put a .44 Magnum to HD's temple and pulled the trigger. Twice. It's over, HD-DVD, was good to know ya.

You might think I am projecting with that statement, by the way. But it reflects the deeper problem for HD: studio support. Studios are not going to support two formats forever, especially when the two formats have radically different capacities with different compression algorithms. Four studios are already BD-exclusive, and Fox happens to own a lot of the films I want to see, as well as being one of them. Blu-Ray is being advertised in household catalogues here, while HD-DVD seems to be a special order only item. This format war has turned into the equivalent of America versus Iraq (the first time around, anyway). The best HD-DVD can hope for now is to survive as a niche format distributed underground. That is not a statement made by a fan, but a statement made by a man who can see all the signs and come to a logical, defensible conclusion.

[lordsmurf]

Comparing HD to BD is like comparing cat shit to dog shit. They both stink.

That's complete rubbish. Neither is even close to perfect, but a good release on either HD-DVD or BluRay is a vast improvement over SD DVD. To say otherwise is just naive.

You missed my point entirely.

This is a DVD world right now. Anything HD media does is basically insignificant, relegated to a tiny percentage of users. In terms of sales, market penetration, etc ... they both stink.

But since you mentioned it, getting a "good" release can be a problem. There are also more visual tricks in effect that so many people are missing. What you think is "better" only applies in certain scenarios (the eternal screen size vs source size vs distributed content size dilemma). I'll elaborate on this eventually, I don't care right now (busy). These aspects don't help any either.

[Nilfennasion]

smurf, I do not wish to get into an argument with you, but the only reason I keep coming back into this thread is to provide a little insight into what the people behind these formats are really thinking.

And they are not thinking "its an SD world". They did not think this when the specifications for SD-DVD were being finalised, and they did not think this when the prospect of high definition television first emerged from Japan during the 1980s. Good businessmen might concern themselves with the immediate bottom line, but they also remain aware that the factors going into bottom lines change radically in as short a space as five years.

You keep telling us things along the lines of the difference between 720 and 1080 being invisible on TVs below a certain size, that Joe Average does not care about what Blind Freddy can see is a better experience, and so forth. Take note that I am only paraphrasing for argument's sake. The point is that affordable technology and attitudes are changing, one obviously faster than the other.

Ten years ago, if you said that a format called DVD was going to make VHS so obsolete that only content that has yet to be transferred could keep it alive, people would look at you like you had told them Keanu Reeves would have a starring role in a film that steals Star Wars' proverbial thunder. It was not until people started to show people content on the DVD in the comfort of their homes that people began to understand there was nowhere for VHS to go as a format but the museum.

1080P televisions, some of them as small as 42", are now hitting the market. One can be had for as little as $3500AU. When people get these displays into their homes, they are going to want to see the extra resolution and clarity that they were sold on, in the new flesh, so to speak. That is the future that Sony et al have planned for.

[gotnotime]

I agree, those that think its a SD-DVD world are living in the past. HDTV sales are gathering steam this year. Have you been to a Walmart recently. Go to the TV section, the whole wall of TVs are HDTV with the old style NTSC's relegated to a small shelf of to the side. Walmart is the largest retailer in the world, they know what they are doing.

The point is, as they take these HDTV's home they will constantly be reminded by the marked quality difference between HD channels and standard NTSC when channel surf. Then you look at you SD-DVD collection and compare it to the HD channel, and realize it sucks. Then you buy a up-converter DVD player and the quality improves some, but still not as good as HD. Then, every week you watch the ads, waiting for a drop in HD or blu-ray players, waiting.... That's me, and I'll bet a lot of other people right now. when the price hits the "sweet" point there will be a rush to buy them. One for every HDTV out there. My SD-DVD player is already gathering dust.

SD-DVD world.....NOT!!!

oh by the way "DereX888", I guess I'm a blu-ray fan-boy too. As I mentioned before, microsoft is part of the reason, but it basically comes down to size for me, I hate recording on dual layer discs, they are slower, cost more per GB, and they may not play well in some DVD players. Bottom line 10 more GB per layer, means its less likely you will need dual layer to record

[SatStorm]

For Europe, it is a SD-DVD world for sure. In a couple of years that might change, but now, even the term "HD" is unkown by the masses

Meanwhile, as someone from Hellas (Greece), I have a special interest for the movie "300". And this are the latest news regarding this movie: http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=8228

Very interesting indeed.

[rhegedus]

For Europe, it is a SD-DVD world for sure. In a couple of years that might change, but now, even the term "HD" is unkown by the masses.

Are you joking?

Sky HD ads are on practically every ad break.

[videopoo]

Meanwhile, as someone from Hellas (Greece), I have a special interest for the movie "300". And this are the latest news regarding this movie: http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=8228

Yeah...whats up Blu Ray? Can't do something as simple as PIP? Tisk...Tisk!!!

Your falling behind !

[Nilfennasion]

Wow. Just... wow.

These commentators declare the BD of 300 inferior simply because it is lacking a seamless branching feature that will probably get looked at once or twice then forgotten about? I guess that article about how it is all about the movie has not been widely read outside of Australia, a country well-known for its gouging-oriented legitimate market and high piracy rates. Go figure.

Exclusive special features do not win format wars, either. Granted, it is a pain in the proverbial to see the companies trying to implement additions to the specifications after market release, but that was a problem with SD-DVD, too. Just in case anyone forgot what a playback disaster seamless branching turned out to be, especially when implemented on discs with DTS audio.

Like the article says, it is all about the movie. And this is yet another movie on HD-DVD that I have absolutely no interest in buying. As opposed to the dozens either available or planned for release on Blu-Ray.

[rhegedus]

Meanwhile, as someone from Hellas (Greece), I have a special interest for the movie "300". And this are the latest news regarding this movie: http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=8228

Yeah...whats up Blu Ray? Can't do something as simple as PIP? Tisk...Tisk!!!

Your falling behind !

Really?

The Descent BD had PIP last year.

Has the HD version? Oh no, wait.... there isn't a HD version.

[lordsmurf]

What you would like (HD world) and what is truth (SD world) are just not the same. If you really want for HD to catch on, you cannot ignore the reality around you. That is what Sony does with their products. If you want to know why Sony failed at all those formats of yesteryear, it's because they lived in this bubble. You're doing the very same thing. You can say whatever you want, but the numbers and mass opinions don't agree with your HD zealotry.