Blockbuster chooses Blu-ray: is the war over?

[SingSing]

Hmm, what did Hollywood rental, netflix, and redbox offer in Hd or BD ?

[dvd3500]

As I indicated earlier, EA has created a situation where it is no longer profitable to make fun games, only games with a recognisable license. Resident Evil 4 was literally so bad that it holds the distinct honour of being the only Resident Evil game I have not played to completion. I gave up after repeating the same button-mash sequence so many times that I had to go to the doctor because I ruptured a blood vessel screaming things like "[expletive] off, you filthy rigging [expletive]". I might be a minority in letting it show that much, but it should tell you something about why video games are not viewed with anywhere near the awe we had in the Commodore Amiga days.

VHS would be dead if all life support were cut off, however. People were crying out for a format that looked the same on the first play and the thousandth long before DVD-Video was an itch in Toshiba's pants. I still look at what my father records on VHS as a time-delay, and it never ceases to amaze me that we put up with it for this long.

I hear you on both counts. I was an active MechWarrior player. I loved StarSiege even more. Tribes and MechWarrior 4 put so off gaming I didn't buy a computer game until Dawn of War.

I still use VHS to record auto races I can't see for various reasons. It's mostly to see the actualy accidents, starts etc, but I use the same tape and alwys record over the previous week. There is nothing else on worth watching (here in "eurotrash" land as someone here put it with merely 300 million people and a stronger currency compared to the Dollar. :-)

[gotnotime]

Sorry about the "eurotrash' remark. I think its an expression I heard from some sci-fi movie I saw once and reflects a bad experience with an Italian women I dated but that's another story...

Anyway despite the valid statement about 300million population, in Europe, the fact remains that europeans don't make up a significant amount of the U.S. movie market. The strong euro will hurt the tourist industry.

[FulciLives]

As I indicated earlier, EA has created a situation where it is no longer profitable to make fun games, only games with a recognisable license. Resident Evil 4 was literally so bad that it holds the distinct honour of being the only Resident Evil game I have not played to completion. I gave up after repeating the same button-mash sequence so many times that I had to go to the doctor because I ruptured a blood vessel screaming things like "[expletive] off, you filthy rigging [expletive]". I might be a minority in letting it show that much, but it should tell you something about why video games are not viewed with anywhere near the awe we had in the Commodore Amiga days.

With all due respect I thought that RESIDENT EVIL 4 (which supports 16x9 WS and progressive video via the PS2) was one of the best games I've ever played ... at least in recent memory ... and yes I would put it definitely in a top 10 of the greatest video/computer games I've ever played, period.

This comes from someone who only parted played RE 1 (PC version) although I did dig it but never finished it ... I never played RE 2 as I didn't have a PSOne back then ... played and finished RE 3 (PSOne version) and absolutely loved it ... am now playing CODE VERONICA (PS2 version) but I am not very impressed by it so far.

RESIDENT EVIL 4 so kicked ass that I am very excited to see RESIDENT EVIL 5 which is to be in the same style of gameplay (from what I've heard).

As for recent games ... I was rather amazed by GOD OF WAR and can't wait to play the second one ... only I can wait ... for the price to go down LOL

The last game I played (and finished) was FALLOUT: BROTHERHOOD OF STEEL (PS2) and I liked it alot although I'd have to say that the computer version of FALLOUT 1 was better (though different in gameplay) and I also felt that BALDUR'S GATE (PS2) was better than FALLOUT: BOS although both used the same "game engine" which really is a sweet piece of software.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

P.S.
I was born in 1972 which made me the "perfect age" for when the C-64 was popular and yes I had one and those games (in general) kicked ass. I still think the best game I've ever played, bar none, was ULTIMA 4: QUEST OF THE AVATAR on my C-64.

[rhegedus]

HD DVD players are outselling Blu-ray 3 to 1 in Europe.

Really?

That makes the HD sales in Europe even more bad - see www.eproductwars.com for UK and German data.

[SatStorm]

"eurotrash" is a British expression. And not a gentle one, for us, the rest Europeans. On the other hand, we have plenty other expressions for the reverse meaning. Not in english of course.

HD sales in Europe are bad and they shall remain bad. The European houses at the cities don't have enough room for big screen TVs: Those with 28" CRT TVs around 8 years ago, changed to 37-42" LCD/Plasma ones recently and that's the higher they can handle at their houses. On those screens, HDTV don't show benefits compared 16:9 PAL broadcasts from good DVB channels or DVDs discs.

At this time, the European market goes IMO the opposite direction: It's all about Mobile TV (on mobile phones (DVB/H), iPod & clones, Laptops, palmtops, on your car, etc). Also, Internet TV turn strong here.

Overall, I don't see any mass interest for HDTV in Europe right now.
Personally, I have a "good" 40" HDTV (that looks huge in my house), a DVB S2 receiver for the DVB S2 HDTV Channels (so I have HDTV material to watch) and the difference between a good DVB channel and a HDTV channel is not that great.
I believe, HDTV has a great impact in the USA, because NTSC broadcasts use to be - from what the americans told me over the years - awfull. For us here, PAL compared to HDTV is not such a big deal, yet. If better TVs appear and more cheap etc etc etc, it might force us to turn to HDTV. But at the time being, is like the situation with VHS and SVHS a decade ago: They looked almost the same on the 21/25 TV sets (remember those times?)

[Nilfennasion]

It is like they say, no matter how many people you (don't) assemble in a room, there is always one who will say black instead of white. What bummed me out the most about RE4 was, to put it quite simply, the button-mashing sequences. These were a horrible idea that died a nasty death back in the early 1980s when they were part of a game called Dragon's Lair and provided about as much interactivity as wasting staples.

Okay, rant over. It is still amazing to see all these people who claim that on a 42" TV, you cannot see a benefit from upgrading to HDTV. That is like saying a .38 calibre bullet will make the same size hole in your skull as a .50 calibre. It is demonstrably false. As of this year, my father is fifty-five years old, has to wear glasses to read things from a computer, and keeps complaining about how he might need newer, thicker ones soon. He can see the difference on my 42" plasma TV. My sister's twenty-six year old boyfriend sees the difference. My sister sees the difference. My mother, who turns fifty in less than two weeks, sees the difference. In fact, out of assorted family members, friends, people who know my family but I do not know from Adam, and even police officers who have come calling on business, have glimpsed at my 42" unit and expressed amazement at the difference. The claim that this difference is invisible on a not-gargantuan TV is like the claim that having a hard willy for twelve hours straight will not hurt. Those who make such a claim clearly do not possess one. *

(* - Oh, and actually verify with the manufacturer that the TV in question resolves 1920 x 1080I like I bothered to do, that always helps. :P )

[a1677c]

I have tried both Blockbuster & Netflix. With Blockbuster you can only have 4 titles out at one time with Netflix you can have up to 8; however the problem with Netflix is there turn around time is terrible. Netflix is not quick about sending out your dvd’s once you have returned them & you can not report your titles even being sent back till its 6 days out. With Blockbuster you can do this the next day after you have received them they have a quick turn-around time & they also ship out on weekends. Netflix holds on to your titles from Friday through Sunday this is a big minus for Netflix. Lets put it this way with the Blockbuster 4 out plan I get about the same number of titles I did with the Netflix 8 out plan that is how bad Netflix is. Unfortunately Blockbuster has terrible Blu-Ray availability while they list the title & you can ad it to your queue the title is always out & even if it is available the most likely will not ship it; however their SD DVD’s are readily available. I do feel that Blockbusters decision to only carry Blu-Ray in their stores with have a significant effect even if they are not an economic powerhouse. For whatever reason Blockbuster will not put up a store in small towns while chains like Family Video do so I think its their real downfall that they don’t put stores in small towns where there is real money making viability. K-Mart didn’t put store in small towns while Wal-Mart did. Oh and one last note I only rent online but the savinsg you get from Blockbuster is US $1.00 a month & i am saving that buck but it's pretty neglible all the same.

[gshelley61]

...my 42" plasma TV. *

(* - Oh, and actually verify with the manufacturer that the TV in question resolves 1920 x 1080I like I bothered to do, that always helps. :P )

Did you mean to say 42" 1080P LCD flat panel? There are no 42" plasma displays I know of that have more than 1024x768 pixels. They can't resolve (that is, display all the details of) 1920x1080 images because of their 1024x768 native screen resolution. Sure, they can accept a 1920x1080i HDTV signal, but it is downscaled by the 42" plasmas to their 1024x768p native screen resolution.

Some of the newer 42" LCD flat panels are 1920x1080p native and can fully resolve a 1920x1080 image.

[Nilfennasion]

After taking back no less than five LCD monitors because of stuck pixels (and having one now so dotty it hurts to look at for reasons that will not make sense for the most part), you can give me an LCD anything for free over my dead body.

Assuming even the salesman spin about 1024 x 768 is for real (which when you deal with salesmen and promoters, is rare), the claim that the difference between SD and HD on a 42" plasma is still utterly null and void. It is like claiming there is no such thing as a chemical imbalance.

[rhegedus]

Okay, rant over. It is still amazing to see all these people who claim that on a 42" TV, you cannot see a benefit from upgrading to HDTV.

Yup. Changing to PAL (720x576) SD DVD after a NTSC (720x480) SD DVD is quite different, so watching 1920x1080 must be noticable.

There are no 42" plasma displays I know of that have more than 1024x768 pixels.

Hitachi P42T01

I think Philips also do one.

[edDV]

The issue is seeing a resolution difference at a given viewing distance. At >3m back you won't see a difference 1280x720 to 1920x1080 based on resolution alone. You need to be inside 2m. Digital transmission also has signal to noise and lack of ghosting vs. analog.

>3m back, most won't see a difference 768x576 to 1280x720.

Hitachi P42T01 shows Native Resolution 1024 x 1080.

[gotnotime]

The issue is seeing a resolution difference at a given viewing distance. At >3m back you won't see a difference 1280x720 to 1920x1080 based on resolution alone. You need to be inside 2m. Digital transmission also has signal to noise and lack of ghosting vs. analog.

>3m back, most won't see a difference 768x576 to 1280x720.

Hitachi P42T01 shows Native Resolution 1024 x 1080.

The fact is visual acuity in humans varies substantially. These studies weres based on less then one standard deviation of acuity from the mean. This means that around 25% of the population would be able to tell the difference. Of course the difference becomes more apparent over 42". The average size primary HDTV sold today is closer to 50" as is likely to continue to climb making higher resolutions more discernible

[gotnotime]

Sorry for the double post, but I just noticed how far we have strayed from the original theme of this forum. I guess the blu-ray HD DVD war really is over as we are no longer talking about it.

[DereX888]

Sorry for the double post, but I just noticed how far we have strayed from the original theme of this forum. I guess the blu-ray HD DVD war really is over as we are no longer talking about it.

nah.
It just hasn't started yet

As you see, no one is really interested in neither one since most of people still use SD tv LOL
Anyways, studios themselves jumpships every few months too. Any deals can be changed or broken when better ones appear around the corner
It is outrageously preposterous to announce any victory while there is less than 1% of users worldwide of any of the formats ROTFL

[Rudyard]

It is outrageously preposterous to announce any victory while there is less than 1% of users worldwide of any of the formats ROTFL

Is that figure true? I was trying to find out this recently but couldnt get anything.
Is there somewhere you can link me to that has the % of people with full HD (1080p) tvs?

[FulciLives]

The problem with this war is very simple. I'll use myself as an example.

1.) I have a HDTV
2.) I do not make a lot of money
3.) I want a HDTV capable disc format
4.) I can't afford one now because of point 2
5.) I don't want to buy the "wrong" format ... again because of point 2

I think that pretty much sums it up for most people that already have a HDTV but are "holding off" on buying HD-DVD and Blu-Ray.

For the record I only have a 51" 16x9 WS 1080i HDTV ... would love one of the 52" 16x9 WS 1080p LCD HDTV's I saw at BEST BUY but my current HDTV is not that old and I'm still paying on it (24 month financing via Circuit City) so I'll just have to "settle" for 1080i until it breaks down on me LOL

I didn't even know 1080p was gonna be the next "new" thing otherwise I might have waited. When I bought my HDTV in December of 2005 there was no HD-DVD nor Blu-Ray and nobody was really much talking about 1080p nor where ads pointing out that fact. Now you can't look at a BEST BUY or CIRCUIT CITY ad without a HDTV being labeled 1080p etc. and often the native resolution is listed as well etc.

However I doubt I'd do it differently. I've been enjoying my HDTV for a while now and that has included not only movies but also some video games. RESIDENT EVIL 4 and GOD OF WAR were both awesome experiences on that TV

Anyways the point is very simple ... no one wants to buy the format that will "fail" so I doubt we will see "mass adoption" of either format until there is a ... at least somewhat ... clear winner. I don't really see a clear winner happening unless everyone (the hardware and movie studios etc.) agree to stop making one or the other. That isn't likely to happen so it's down to the market place.

Sony lost out on Beta not for lack of trying but because it got to the point where so few people had one as VHS became more popular ... mostly due to price. So eventually movies stopped coming out for that format and rental stores stopped carrying pre-recorded Beta tapes etc.

I'm afraid the same will happen with HD-DVD and Blu-Ray. The market place will decide. The only problem is the market place isn't very excited about either one. Back in the days of Beta/VHS you pretty much had to have one or the other. You don't "have to have" HD-DVD nor Blu-Ray since standard DVD Video is doing very well still.

It gets even more complicated though because of the game machines or most notable the PS3 including Blu-Ray playback. If that was not true then Blu-Ray would probably be dead by now. Because the market place likes cheap and HD-DVD is cheaper but the PS3 "mucks" things up. People buy the PS3 for games but the fact that it can do Blu-Ray playback boosts the Blu-Ray format above what it would be if you had to buy a dedicated Blu-Ray player. Right now if you want HD-DVD you have to buy a dedicated player OR buy the Xbox 360 add-on which makes the Xbox 360 as expensive (if not more so now that the PS3 dropped it's price) than just buying a PS3. Everything is now less clear ... confused ... less black and white now ... as a result.

I really think Microsoft screwed up by not making the Xbox 360 Elite have HD-DVD playback without requiring an add-on. They could have kept the add-on around for the older Xbox 360 consoles but made the new Xbox 360 Elite HD-DVD capable "as is" without needing an add-on.

If this HD-DVD and Blu-Ray war is still ragging next year I have a feeling Microsoft will come out with a Xbox 360 that has built-in HD-DVD playing capability. By then it might be too late.

I am getting the "sense" that Blu-Ray is winning ... or at least has enough of an upper head that it might win. I consider this "sad" as I think HD-DVD is the better option.

However I could be wrong. If we get to the point where a HD-DVD player is $200 or less and if a Blu-Ray player is a lot more (and the PS3 will never be $200 ... at least not for ages) then maybe HD-DVD will win afterall. Yet if Blu-Ray can get to within the same price range of $200 or less as HD-DVD hits the same price oint ... then Blu-Ray may win ... since it has a boast now with the PS3.

In short the prices have to come down substantially and the market place will decide at that point.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[DereX888]

It is outrageously preposterous to announce any victory while there is less than 1% of users worldwide of any of the formats ROTFL

Is that figure true? I was trying to find out this recently but couldnt get anything.
Is there somewhere you can link me to that has the % of people with full HD (1080p) tvs?

Internal data from biggest cable tv providers in Canada from earlier this year show 1.3% of customers with HDTV.
And some people at CRTC (canadian govt. agency) think that data has been inflated anyways
Nevertheless.
Since most of 'western' countries (Europe, South-East Asia, Australia) are just basically at the begining of their HDTV rollout, even behind Canada, certainly rest of 'western' countries will have such numbers even lower (with exceptions in few wealthier Asian countries like Japan and few states in USA, which won't have much impact on the worldwide percentage anyways).

It is expected to double this year.
Which IMHO still will be very insignificant number.

PS
I know it may come as surprise to some people, but IMHO many mistaken "digital broadcast" and "digital screens" with real HDTV.
Many people are confused, and its not rare that they describe i.e. their LCD TV (just standard resolution) as "HDTV"

[jagabo]

If we get to the point where a HD-DVD player is $200 or less

"TOSHIBA IS experimenting with offering a $99 HD-DVD player..." ???

http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=41002

[gadgetguy]

I know it may come as surprise to some people, but IMHO many mistaken "digital broadcast" and "digital screens" with real HDTV.
Many people are confused, and its not rare that they describe i.e. their LCD TV (just standard resolution) as "HDTV"

Considering how this whole digital transition has been handled, it's no wonder people would make that mistake. I know I have to explain the difference a couple times a week.

"TOSHIBA IS experimenting with offering a $99 HD-DVD player..." ???

http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=41002

Those same confused people will rush right out to purchase a HD-DVD player to use with their SD TV.

[gotnotime]

The problem with this war is very simple. I'll use myself as an example.

1.) I have a HDTV
2.) I do not make a lot of money
3.) I want a HDTV capable disc format
4.) I can't afford one now because of point 2
5.) I don't want to buy the "wrong" format ... again because of point 2

I think that pretty much sums it up for most people that already have a HDTV but are "holding off" on buying HD-DVD and Blu-Ray.

Of-course its possible that the war may end in stalemate. The difference between the war of HD vs Blu-ray and that of VHS vs betamax is that the technologies are not mutually exclusive. That means that dual format players may end the war just as it did with the DVD + R vs DVD -R formats when players that could handle both formats were manufactured. The consumers signed on without having to worry about their disks becoming obsolete with a single format.

Indeed, this appears to be happening already as LG has a dual format machine in stores currently. The price is outrageous, but will likely come down if people start to buy them. This will be tempting to the consumer, and allow them to not worry if they are making the wrong choice. Interestingly, all the HD players, including the dual formats are backward compatible to DVD-R, thus further assuring the consumer that their current collection of DVDs can still be played.

[lordsmurf]

That means that dual format players may end the war just as it did with the DVD + R vs DVD -R formats when players that could handle both formats were manufactured. .

Ummm... no.

We could already play DVD+R and DVD-R just fine. These were all DVD formats. The only difference was one was the official format, and one was a rebel format. But both were made for DVD-Video players and DVD-ROM data. It was only burners that were affected.

The point with HD-DVD and Blu-Ray is that they are not made for the same hardware. They are separate in every way. A "dual player" would require a good deal more hardware under the hood, and for much higher costs.

You'd have to compare SVCD/CVD/VCD to DVD, to be analogous to the competition between HD discs. Luckily, the USA and most of Europe was spared the CD/DVD video format wars, it was Asia that hashed that one out for a good many years. The other one would be Betamax/VHS in the 1980s.

[videopoo]

I'll lay money on the table you'll see sub $300 dual format players by christmas next year.

[DereX888]

I'll lay money on the table you'll see sub $300 dual format players by christmas next year.

...make it this year's Christmas

But we still won't see <$300 real HDTV television sets even by next Christmas, which makes all these players somewhat useless

[gotnotime]

That means that dual format players may end the war just as it did with the DVD + R vs DVD -R formats when players that could handle both formats were manufactured. .

Ummm... no.

We could already play DVD+R and DVD-R just fine. These were all DVD formats. The only difference was one was the official format, and one was a rebel format. But both were made for DVD-Video players and DVD-ROM data. It was only burners that were affected.

The point with HD-DVD and Blu-Ray is that they are not made for the same hardware. They are separate in every way. A "dual player" would require a good deal more hardware under the hood, and for much higher costs.

You'd have to compare SVCD/CVD/VCD to DVD, to be analogous to the competition between HD discs. Luckily, the USA and most of Europe was spared the CD/DVD video format wars, it was Asia that hashed that one out for a good many years. The other one would be Betamax/VHS in the 1980s.

Ummm..well.. you are partially correct. I do stand corrected about the dual format players, I meant DVD+/- R recorders, which is implied in the R=recordable

However, my statement with regard to the hardware remains valid. Both technologies use the same 405nm laser. They only differ in focus mechanism and size of the aperture. The only technical aspect that had to be overcome is to be able to change the depth at which the laser is focused and a chip-set for each format. Several companies including Broadcom have already manufactured a single laser and chip-set that handles both blu-ray and HD DVD media, and standard DVD.

So your argument is invalid, the hardware is the essentially the same. One laser, one chip-set.

[Jeff_NJ]

I agree with the people saying porn isnt as big a driving force as it used to be. People buy a lot of movies these days. Almost everyone I know has a substantial collection. If anything, I feel porn is more accessible and easily watched online, whereas youd rather watch a regular movie in the home theatre.

I want an HD setup to watch something like Transformers... not Debbie Does Dallas Part 50, lol.

Jeff

[SingSing]

Blockbuster chooses Blu-ray: is the war over?

Okay. I am going into their toilets, and find out which toilet paper they provide, and then declear all the other paper companies are going under. Watch out, Scott.

[MozartMan]

Picture is worth a thousand words:

[gadgetguy]

Cobwebs... nice touch.

[Bullworth]

Blu Ray may be in the majority for now. Yes, I've seen that ratio of Blu Ray to HD-DVD just about any video rental or retail store I've been at. Like mentioned before many people don't understand that in order to really appreciate HD movies you also need an HDTV. I don't know how many people I've seen at electronics stores returning their players because they say they don't see any difference from DVD playing it on their SDTVs. When they're told they need to drop another $1000 for a HDTV then they really don't want it.
I would like HD movies but that would also require investing in an HDTV which could be anywhere from $2000 to $3000 or more for both. To be fair DVD players used to be insanely expensive until the cheap Chinese ones started to flood the market and was one of the main factors that drove prices down. Hopefully the same will happen with Blu-Ray and HD.
One comparison I read somewhere is that BR/HD movies don't offer anything new. Comparing cassettes and VHS tapes to CDs and DVDs there was a huge change in the way the movie could be viewed, extra content, selectable soundtracks and subtitles and all the other goodies. What does Blu Ray and HD offer? Higher resolution and a perfect example that the MPAA won't give up the vertical battle for an "unbreakable" copy protection scheme.

I really see downloadable content as the next big thing...as long as it's DRM-free :P

Really glad Capcom saw the light and decided to release RE5 on the 360 as well!!