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Poll: Have lower hddvd and bluray player prices tempted you?

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  1. Member yoda313's Avatar
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    So now that HDDVD and BLURAY players are really coming down in price are you more tempted to buy one?

    What is your price point for buying HDDVD or BLURAY?

    For me - I need to buy an HDTV before I consider a HDDVD or BLURAY player that's for sure.
    Donatello - The Shredder? Michelangelo - Maybe all that hardware is for making coleslaw?
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  2. Not until the format war is over. When HDDVD and BLURAY are both dead and the real winner, (as yet unknown), is available in vast quantities at cheap prices. Until then, DVD is just fine.
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  3. Personally I believe both will be around for some years to come once more dual format players come out.

    You'll see authoring tools do both with just a push of a button to re-work the programming code.

    By then, the Internet will have killed the disc format.
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  4. Member edDV's Avatar
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    I'm in no hurry.

    1. DVD looks better than ever on my HDTVs. AC-3 sounds as good as HD/BD.

    2. HDCP requires that I buy a new HDTV and a new audio system if and when they turn on HDCP. HD/BD players have HDCP built in but they chickened out turning it on during the innovator stage because they knew their $$$ customers would be pissed and hire lawyers. I want HDCP insurance before I buy any more HD equipment from any HD/BD supporter.

    3. The longer I wait, the more these issues are resolved. In a year or three, the HD/BD guys will be giving me rebates to buy their players and audio systems. I'd like 10 years useful life from my equipment, but if they want to buy me out, I'll listen but without buyout, I will never buy an HD/BD disc with HDCP turned on. I might rent one but I refuse to buy it.
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  5. Member FulciLives's Avatar
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    I voted for: I won't buy one until the format war is over

    I really want both formats but money is tight these days.

    I do have a 1080i capable HDTV but like I said money is tight and even one of these units will be ultra expensive so I ain't buying nothing yet until the WAR gets sorted out.

    I'm leaning towards HD-DVD but I really want a PS3 for game play and might "spring" for one come Christmas of 2007 so that would kinda "stick" me into the Blu-Ray camp I guess as I wouldn't have enough money to buy a PS3 and a HD-DVD player.

    Of course I could always buy an Xbox 360 + the HD-DVD add-on instead of a PS3 ... I think the price would be about the same then ... but I get the impression that a PS3 will suit me better game wise than the XboX 360 and again I only have so much (limited) money.

    If it was down to JUST a unit that plays movies I would definately buy HD-DVD due to the lower price.

    But I don't want the loser here ... went through the whole LaserDisc thing ... great format ... had it for nearly 10 years before DVD took over ... but I've never ever seen a format (so entrenched) dumped so damn quickly. It was enough to make your stomach ache. It was like the format was gone with a 6 month window or so of DVD "catching on".

    - John "FulciLives" Coleman
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    Let's see how Blade Runner and Starwars look in in HD. Until then I will not pick a winner...
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  7. Member yoda313's Avatar
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    Yeah I think ofbarea is right - we need more "mega" hits on the formats before a winner can be picked.

    Star Wars
    Lord Of the Rings

    and a bunch of others that haven't hit it yet.

    However the MATRIX is the one of the first biggies to choose and they chose HDDVD. I wonder if that will be a trend setter or not?

    We need to wait until more trilogies hit the next gen market before a winner comes out. Things like Back to the Future or Indian Jones haven't declared yet either..
    Donatello - The Shredder? Michelangelo - Maybe all that hardware is for making coleslaw?
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  8. Member edDV's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by ofbarea
    Let's see how Blade Runner and Starwars look in in HD. Until then I will not pick a winner...
    They look fine but not worth what they want.
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    Majority of people in USA and even more in the world have only "standard definition" tv sets. There aren't that many idiots to buy hi-def players for a low-res display...
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  10. Member edDV's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by DereX888
    Majority of people in USA and even more in the world have only "standard definition" tv sets. There aren't that many idiots to buy hi-def players for a low-res display...
    The situation is far worse than you imagine. Those of us who bought capable HDTV sets with real money will get black screen (worse case) to quarter resolution (960x540) best case from these discs after they decide to implement HDCP.

    To get full resolution with HDCP encryption enabled, you need to junk your current HDTV at distress price, then buy a new HDTV and a new HDCP compatible audio system.

    Why bother?
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  11. Member FulciLives's Avatar
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    I hate to sound like a dunce here BUT one thing I never figured out or read about in regards to HDCP HDMI:

    It carries VIDEO and AUDIO so how do you get the AUDIO out of it? Do you need a receiver with HDCP HDMI input as a "pass-thru" device first?

    I mean if you use HDCP HDMI then can you still use the standard digital audio outputs on the DVD player?

    What about a person like me (cough) who still uses the standard RCA stereo jacks because my audio receiver is only a "standard" stereo receiver (no surround sound)?

    I've never heard this explained before anywhere ...

    I do have a HDTV with a HDCP HDMI (knock on wood) connector but I've never used it. Still using component video with the standard RCA stereo jacks for audio.

    - John "FulciLives" Coleman
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    Originally Posted by edDV
    Originally Posted by DereX888
    Majority of people in USA and even more in the world have only "standard definition" tv sets. There aren't that many idiots to buy hi-def players for a low-res display...
    The situation is far worse than you imagine. Those of us who bought capable HDTV sets with real money will get black screen (worse case) to quarter resolution (960x540) best case from these discs after they decide to implement HDCP.

    To get full resolution with HDCP encryption enabled, you need to junk your current HDTV at distress price, then buy a new HDTV and a new HDCP compatible audio system.

    Why bother?

    Yeah, HDCP, I forgot about that. IMHO Japanese and US people with "first-gen HDTV" sets (thats where most of them were sold) should make something about it, like a class-action suit or such.
    The industry is shooting itself in a foot (again), or so it seems.
    But I like conspiracies so I rather believe implementations of HDCP and such idiocies (watch for a "broadcast flag" to make its comeback under different name and be approved in some shadowy process...) are a conspiracy of old SD manufacturers against HD manufacturers to thwart their HDTV rollout rather than believe business people can be *that* stupid





    (yeah I know these are the same people, but conspiracy sounds better - and I said I like conspiracy theories )
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  13. Member edDV's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by FulciLives
    I hate to sound like a dunce here BUT one thing I never figured out or read about in regards to HDCP HDMI:

    It carries VIDEO and AUDIO so how do you get the AUDIO out of it? Do you need a receiver with HDCP HDMI input as a "pass-thru" device first?

    I mean if you use HDCP HDMI then can you still use the standard digital audio outputs on the DVD player?
    As designed, HDCP turns everything off unless the receiving device (audio and video) communicates as an approved device and with a current key. An approved TV can authenticate audio and video and then receive HD resolutions and AC-3. An approved audio receiver can strip off audio from HDMI if it separately from the TV authenticates. There are license owner options in HDCP to allow the TV to pass the AC-3 to a standard receiver or not.

    HDCP is a guilty until proven innocent system. The HD/BD player will not output HD resolutions unless all downstream equipment first authenticates. Failing authentication, the license owner can allow no playback, SD playback, or quarter resolution playback.


    Originally Posted by FulciLives
    What about a person like me (cough) who still uses the standard RCA stereo jacks because my audio receiver is only a "standard" stereo receiver (no surround sound)?

    I've never heard this explained before anywhere ...
    Full implementation of HDCP implies no video and no sound without authentication. License owner options may allow RCA style stereo audio or other audio exceptions. The point is the standard leaves all control with the DVD author.


    Originally Posted by FulciLives
    I do have a HDTV with a HDCP HDMI (knock on wood) connector but I've never used it. Still using component video with the standard RCA stereo jacks for audio.

    - John "FulciLives" Coleman
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  14. Member FulciLives's Avatar
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    I guess my point is this ...

    If I buy HD-DVD or Blu-Ray I need to use the HDCP HDMI output to get full HDTV resolution. I have a HDTV with a HDCP HDMI input.

    What I am confused about is the audio. How do I get it to my stereo receiver? I hope I am not stuck with the speakers on my HDTV or am I unless I buy a HDCP HDMI receiver?

    - John "FulciLives" Coleman
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  15. Member edDV's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by FulciLives
    I guess my point is this ...

    If I buy HD-DVD or Blu-Ray I need to use the HDCP HDMI output to get full HDTV resolution. I have a HDTV with a HDCP HDMI input.

    What I am confused about is the audio. How do I get it to my stereo receiver? I hope I am not stuck with the speakers on my HDTV or am I unless I buy a HDCP HDMI receiver?

    - John "FulciLives" Coleman
    Uncertain.

    Full HDCP sends audio only through the HDMI connector. A compliant HDCP/HDMI receiver can strip the audio out of the HDMI but first needs to authenticate as an approved device. Relaxed HDCP (as set by the DVD author) may permit S/PDIF or stereo output from the player or from the TV to a non-compliant AC-3 decoder.

    I think they would be crazy to limit audio under the full HDCP model since >98% of potential customers won't have a compliant receiver. There are only a few models out there now. Most current audio receivers that have HDMI connections don't support HDCP. Few customers would be satisfied with TV speaker sound for HD/BD DVD.



    Some Refs:

    http://www.theprojectorpros.com/learn.php?p=theater_hdcp

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HDCP
    "For example, high-definition digital video content must be restricted to DVD quality on non-HDCP compliant video outputs when requested by the source. DVD-Audio content is restricted to DAT quality on non-HDCP digital audio outputs (analog audio outputs have no quality limits)"

    http://www.practical-home-theater-guide.com/hdcp.html
    http://www.practical-home-theater-guide.com/hdcp-strippers.html
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    Originally Posted by FulciLives
    I guess my point is this ...

    If I buy HD-DVD or Blu-Ray I need to use the HDCP HDMI output to get full HDTV resolution. I have a HDTV with a HDCP HDMI input.

    What I am confused about is the audio. How do I get it to my stereo receiver? I hope I am not stuck with the speakers on my HDTV or am I unless I buy a HDCP HDMI receiver?

    - John "FulciLives" Coleman
    Hey guys! I'm a first time poster but a long time reader of this site. FulciLives, I've used your guides for alot of different projects, and they are a life saver. thank you.

    To answer your questions, You can get 720p or 1080i with component and 720p/1080i/1080p with HDMI. I have the Toshiba XA2 HD DVD player, that i use HDMI to connect to my TV. I Use the 5.1 analog outputs from the XA2 to my old Sony DE685 receiver, so i can take advantage of Dolby TruHD soundtracks and Dolby Digital Plus soundtracks. The XA2 decodes Dolby TruHD soundtracks and sends them to the receiver as uncompressed PCM tracks. Startling clarity and dynamic range. Usually anywhere from 16-24 bit depth and 96 khz.

    If your receiver just has optical or Sp/dif inputs you can still take advantage of Dolby digital plus soundtracks. These are mastered at a higher bitrate than standard DVD soundtracks. Usually 1.5 Mbs. Or what DTS laserdiscs, or the early DTS DVD's, used to be mastered at.

    Of course, Later this year, they are bringing out new HDMI 1.3 Receivers that will do all the decoding. But, since i don't yet have a HDMI receiver, i just use the 5.1 analog outputs.

    I also have an Xbox 360 with the Hd DVD add-on that i use in another room. All 360's, with the exception of the new Elite models, have component outputs. HD DVD's look amazing with component outputs as well.

    So, in your case Fulci, if you want next gen audio to go with next gen video, you would need to get a new A/V receiver or pick up an older one that has 5.1 analog inputs. Although, you can still use the ole' RCA jacks for standard stereo.

    If you decided on a PS3, you could just hook up using an HDMI cable, as that is standard on PS3's. But, then again, you would still need an HDMI receiver to get the improved audio, otherwise you would be just using your TV speakers.

    Whew. Sorry for all that. In closing, you can use component or HDMI to get Hi-def images from HD DVD's as well as Blu ray discs.
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    No

    Format wars suck and I'm not paying for content.
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  18. On our 34" CRT, HDTV looks good. So do upconverted DVDs. I see no reason to upgrade.
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  19. From one of the Microsoft's HDi developers blog:

    http://blogs.msdn.com/andypennell/
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    I don't know when this "format war" will be over. When a combo player that supports both formats drops to under $200, then I might be tempted, and then it will give me reason to even buy an hdtv. And hopefully hddvds and bluray movies will all settle down to the prices that DVDs are. In short, I'll wait until everything drops to the prices that DVDs and DVD players are today. I have the patience, though. I didn't buy a DVD player until 2004 (Prior to that, I was just playing DVDs on my PC). I'm not the type who needs the newest technology when it's in its infancy, anyway.
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  21. Still standard def TVs here so I don't expect this to be an issue for me for quite some time.
    HDTVs will have to have their issues solved before I get one of those, prices will need to drop further and a good bit of the the content that I want would have to be available.
    (I mostly prefer classic movies and shows and heck - many of those never even made it out onto VHS let alone DVD yet!)

    I'm in no rush.
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  22. Question: Have lower hddvd and bluray player prices tempted you?

    Answer: Of Course, Not.

    As the proud owner of 4 track, 8 track, and casette tapes as well as CDroms.

    As the proud owner of Betamax, VHS, Super VHS, and DVDrom...

    Almost forgot the old mini floppy mavica....

    Thanks, I need another format like I need more holes in my head.
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  23. Whatever format fits through the hole I cut in the shop window is fine with me.
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  24. Member
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    I won't be drawn into this format until two things happen:

    1) BluRay or HDDVD are available as a player / recorder.
    2) Prices come down to where they should be.

    I remember waiting for DVD players to drop below $500 before I bought and within a year or two they were giving them away. IMO DVD quality is fine for me for now. I did buy a HD camcorder (HDV) so I can shoot video of my kids and everything they are involved in in the best quality available. I'll just hang onto the tapes until a economical storage solution comes along, until then I'm ok...
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  25. I picked up a used Toshiba HD-A1 recently for less than $150 and so far have been very impressed. The picture quality it delivers at 1080i to my 62" 1920x1080p DLP is absolutely fantastic with the HD-DVD's I've tried out (all Netflix rentals, but I did purchase the Planet Earth HD-DVD set and it is visually stunning). Totally pristine images without any hint of those annoying compression artifacts common to HD cable and satellite. Plus, the standard DVD upscaling with this unit is easily the best I've seen... and I've checked out many very good upscaling DVD players. Superior film transfers to DVD (like the Superbit "Fifth Element" disc) seem to look nearly as good as some real HD sources.

    I also got hold of a JVC HDMI receiver that decodes the digital audio, plus has 5.1 analog inputs if I want to use the HD-A1's own internal state-of-the-art digital audio decoder with discrete 5.1 outputs.

    It's an exceptionally well constructed, heavy duty unit that is a little on the large side. Downsides are slower than normal disc loading times (especially with HD-DVD discs) and it is picky about burned discs. High quality DVD-R/RW (i.e. Taiyo Yuden) plays with no problem, but it doesn't like the lower quality cheap blank media. No official support for +R/RW either (I only burn DVD-Video compliant DVD-R anyway).
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  26. Member rhegedus's Avatar
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    PS3 owner.

    Very impressed.
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    I really don't know what to say. I have a 55" 1080i TV. I watch lots of movies( average2- 3 a day). No matter what I'm doing at home, if I'm home, I have a movie going. I have a DVD player in just about every room in the house that I use including my garage and my gym. I have noticed that blockbusters on DVD are as clear as can be. Anything else??okay to awful as far as picture qual. goes. I do get network TV over the air in 1080i and it looks good but no better than a really good DVD.

    For right now I'm just waiting for a reason to update, hasn't happened yet. Sooner or later some movies will come out using one or both of the formats and people will say "you cannot believe how great that looks"

    When that happens, I'll buy one or the other or both. Until then, I don't feel like I'm missing anything.

    Tony
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  28. Member edDV's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by cal_tony
    I really don't know what to say. I have a 55" 1080i TV. I watch lots of movies( average2- 3 a day). No matter what I'm doing at home, if I'm home, I have a movie going. I have a DVD player in just about every room in the house that I use including my garage and my gym. I have noticed that blockbusters on DVD are as clear as can be. Anything else??okay to awful as far as picture qual. goes. I do get network TV over the air in 1080i and it looks good but no better than a really good DVD.

    For right now I'm just waiting for a reason to update, hasn't happened yet. Sooner or later some movies will come out using one or both of the formats and people will say "you cannot believe how great that looks"

    When that happens, I'll buy one or the other or both. Until then, I don't feel like I'm missing anything.

    Tony
    Man, you you must have a better supplier of DVD movies than I can find. I'm having difficulty keeping a Netflix queue full. Most has been crap. I'm down to ordering Rodriguez/Tarantino's "Grind House" just to see what they do in spare time on low budget.
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  29. DVD Ninja budz's Avatar
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    I just purchased a Panasonic 32 inch LCD TV to replace my dying Sony 32 inch XBR CRT TV. I won't even consider buying a HD/BLUE RAY dvd player until a format is decided on. :/ This reminds me of the BETAMAX war w/VHS.
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  30. I'm not interested in either till the recorders are $100 or less and Recordable disks are $1 or less!

    Just too darned tired of buying a $200 burner and $2 disks and a year later same stuff is $50 burner and 50 cent disks.

    My only real reason to get anything like blue ray is if I can put a series of movies on just one disk, like all the Rockies, or all the Leathal Weapons, Police academies etc...
    And really, how often would I watch them all in a row at one time anyway? So really since I would watch 2 in a row at most perhaps changing disks is really not that big a deal.
    Would be nice to have the set on one disk though so I could always find the 2 I want to watch!
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