Have lower hddvd and bluray player prices tempted you?

[FulciLives]

I always wanted to do an edit of EVIL DEAD, EVIL DEAD 2 and ARMY OF DARKNESS that cut the ending credits of the 1st and 2nd film so that it would play back as one long movie.

The way each one ends and the way the sequels start ... this could be done. You would loose some "filler" footage that is there to "bridge the gap" but really if done right it would flow like one giant long ass movie.

All in all it would only be about 4 1/2 hours long. That's not too bad length wise.

You could do the same thing with HALLOWEEN and HALLOWEEN 2 ... probably other movies I haven't thought of as well.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[gll99]

Not anywhere near yet.

1 The war must end.
2 The technology must be fully compatible with any other hardware or for the computer version work with major commercial software I use . None of this hdmi can't talk to that connector cr@p so the signal is downgraded or won't work.

When those things happen I will probably bite the bullet but for me recording and playing go hand in hand. If it can't record then I won't buy the unit (standalone or computer). The vendor will have to prove it in the store and write it on the bill of sale as a condition of sale or foggetaboutit
.

btw.) Yes, to those who wonder. I can live without HD movies, it's a nice to have not a must have. When I start replacing my 4 sets with HDTV (not $ony for sure) upscaling standalone dvd units will probably come way before any thoughts of a DVD capable recorder. So far it just hasn't been a priority. Personally I was hoping a divx standalone recorder would come along by now with some half decent DL DVD discs.

[dcsos]

Maybe they can compromise on a Purple Ray machine
javascript:emoticon('')

[DereX888]

Maybe they can compromise on a Purple Ray machine
javascript:emoticon('')

good one

[overloaded_ide]

I'm holding out for Ray Ray or Dual Ray.

Hey if we got Daul layer DVD R that MOST people said could never happen for varies reasons years ago, then they can make daul layer
Blue ray or what ever, and with 2 lasers 180degrees apart. Burn layer 1 with one laser and layer 2 with second laser, both layers burned at once and in half the time.

The computers are fast enough to keep up.

They get something like that working CORRECTLY and I'll think about buying it

[EddyH]

Am I tempted to get a Hi-Def system? Am I?

Jeez, I'm only just fully getting up to speed with DVD at the moment. My writer is but a year & a month old, and i've only recently begun making video discs rather than PC backups (which is why i'm back here , and the last VHS purchase I made was less than 6 months ago (four at £0.20 each at a library stock sell-off, true (paying £1, 'keep the change' XD), but thats how it goes..)
And the DVDs I'm making will probably end up as backups of our oldest and most fragile yet most precious (hopefully pre-macrovision) videocassettes and home movies. It's good enough.

We do have an HDTV in the house, but I think it's only 720p compatible (1366x768) and as to whether it can handle HDCP = "???!!?".
Seriously can't be bothered with it yet. Too expensive, too much risk, too much BS. I don't even have (hand on heart) any copied DVDs (excepting all those VCDs I made hehe), but the HDCP idea just hacks me off. Particularly as it'll likely just be used to jack up PPV prices or something.
(as for that quarter scale thing - well you may as well have a regular DVD, at least in PAL countries; lose a little of the allegedly less important horizontal resolution in favour of getting back those 36 missing lines!)

As others' previous comments, a well made DVD looks plenty sweet enough on this screen (a decent cassette isn't even all that bad - it's still about 432x576 after all!). In fact I had to make the point to She Who Is In Charge Of Buying Stuff For The House* that a 26" one would be a joke, we'd need a 32" for the extra rez to be at all noticable, because of the subjective size at normal viewing distance etc.

We have rigged up the fastest PC we could find (my bro's freshly core-duo II upgraded one) and run some example HD demos, and yes, they look pretty damn fine... but I don't think at normal distance there'd be much to call it if I played a downscaled DVD of the same material in a double-blind test!

So I say MEH to it all!


* this she may be, but it's still my own damn DVD player nestled under there; the HD revolution proper will probably happen here when I move out, as they'll be forced to buy a new optical player that, or when Virgin Media decide to upgrade all their cable customers..

[TBoneit]

Your suggestion could workin theory, however I suspect it won't work.

The reason I suspect it might not work would be heat build up in the drive and the disk itself. Plus the drive would need more sophisticated electronics to be able to split the data properly and still do the buffer underrun protection.

There were, and might still be, CDRom drive sthat were rated at 72X as I remember it. The drive had multiple heads that read more than one track at a time, the drive then took those tracks assembled them in order and sent them to the computer. This allowed the drive to turn slower than a 52X and still read faster.

[TJK1911]

For a techy forum like this, I'm surprised at all the negativity towards HD, particularly when so many people discuss the minutae of how to squeeze out the utmost in quality when making a backup copy. It seems like lots of posts say essentially, "DVD is good enough." That's like saying VHS is good enough. As the owner of a 60" plasma HDTV, I think otherwise.

To me, it doesn't seem to be a Beta vs VHS situation, it's more like DVD+R vs DVD-R. Two competing systems that are for all practical purposes identical in performance, but require slightly different hardware. Just as +/-R readers and writers have become commonplace, so will it be with Bluray/HD-DVD. In a couple of years nobody will care which format a disc is.

However the survey question is, Have lower hddvd and bluray player prices tempted you? And for me the answer is No, the prices are still far too high. Not until the price of a Bluray/HD-DVD combo player comes down to the $200-300 level. Until then the HD cable channels are what's "good enough."

[DereX888]

For a techy forum like this, I'm surprised at all the negativity towards HD, particularly when so many people discuss the minutae of how to squeeze out the utmost in quality when making a backup copy. It seems like lots of posts say essentially, "DVD is good enough." That's like saying VHS is good enough. As the owner of a 60" plasma HDTV, I think otherwise.

To me, it doesn't seem to be a Beta vs VHS situation, it's more like DVD+R vs DVD-R. Two competing systems that are for all practical purposes identical in performance, but require slightly different hardware. Just as +/-R readers and writers have become commonplace, so will it be with Bluray/HD-DVD. In a couple of years nobody will care which format a disc is.

However the survey question is, Have lower hddvd and bluray player prices tempted you? And for me the answer is No, the prices are still far too high. Not until the price of a Bluray/HD-DVD combo player comes down to the $200-300 level. Until then the HD cable channels are what's "good enough."

I don't think this is anything like in times of Beta vs VHS war.
There were NO home video recording devices before the VCRs whatsoever, while we have plenty of devices in every home nowadays. Granted, almost none of them is as good quality (resolution) as HDTV, but as I said earlier: most of the world is still watching DVDs on a standard TV sets.
Until most people get better resolution TV screens, there is no point in investing in any higher-res players or recorders, obviously.
And no, it isn't anything like +R vs -R, since both were essentially designed for and as a computer storage devices first.
The standalone -/+R(W) dvd-recorders came out later.
Do you see any BR-DVD or HD-DVD computer drives flood on the market?
No, because these are the formats designed from the ground for entertainment industry. Their use in computer industry as storage devices is a side effect which hasn't been put to use yet (and since BR's inception already 4 or 5 years ago, I doubt it will ever happen on a same scale as it happened with DVD-Rs).

I agree though that no one will care about blueray or hd dvd in few years, because both will be replaced by something newer.
Its all about timing.
I.e. DVD-RAM format was (and still is) way superior to DVD-R(W) and DVD+R(W), yet it never caught on. The timing was wrong - it came out too early, before most of people were using dvd recorders (I know, pricing... but had DVD-RAM became as popular as DVD-/+Rs its price wouldn't be much different from their prices on mass-produced level).
Same thing will hppen with high-def formats.
When the time will be right, most likely HD-DVD (because I have no faith in Sony) or some newer format will take the market like a storm.
/edit/
But for this to happen there cannot be any more 'surprises' like sudden HDCP requirements to play HD content (basically rendering "first-generation" HDTV screens obsolete).
'Surprise" like this made the whole HDTV market uncertain business.
Consumers are just not sure will the brand new top-notch they'll buy today will it be working next year. Thus they hold off, even if they are interested in better resolution TV.
People don't buy new TVs every 2 years just because some crooked legislators decided to mess with their existing devices and (indirectly) say: "from now on your tv is obsolete, get a new one".
Usually TV is like a kitchen appliance - most people get used to them, and don't change them like clothes or just because there are newer models. On average the "main" TV set in the house is replaced only when it is broken.
The key to HDTV rollout are TV sets, not players or recorders or formats, and the hhigh-def content availability (broadcast, cable).
Blueray or HD-DVD are just "attachments" for the TV itself, and no one actually cares what format or what kind of encryption these devices have - as last as they play high-def content on a tv, its all they care about. But again - they have to have High-Def TV set first.
Do you remember dvd players literally "flying off" of the store shelves soon after they came out? Just before their sales peak, around 1999-2000, their prices were as high as current high-def player's, yet people were buying them like hot cakes. Why isn't the lowered price of high-def players created such run nowaday? Simply because DVD players didn't require new TV sets to see the difference in quality, while BR or HD-DVD players are useless without new high-def TV set.
It seems like lots of posts say essentially, "DVD is good enough." That's like saying VHS is good enough. As the owner of a 60" plasma HDTV, I think otherwise.. See, if you wouldn't have that plasma screen, you obviously wouldn't see any difference between DVD and HDTV and wouldn't be interested in BR or HD-DVD at all. But are you rich enough to buy another tv and player next year, in case the corrupted legislators will bow to the movie industry pressure again and playing next high-def discs will require new players and new tv with some "HDCP version 2" because both BR and HD-DVD encryptions has been broken and movie industry may try to shove up consumer's ass some new content protection? Well, even if YOU are willing to buy new tv and player next year, the Average Joe living tight on his mediocre paychecks isn't...

[edDV]

I'm waiting for them to fess up on draconian HDCP restrictions.

My answer to them is no. I won't buy everything again. I already did that.

[overloaded_ide]

Well the fact is consumers are stupid and the faction that produces the most stupid advertising shall win.

They call you a fat sloppy pig and you run out and buy their BIG GULP or BIG GRAB product, you pay more money for less product but because they called you a fat sloppy pig you are happy!
TRUE, check the products for the volume of content I mentioned against other package sizes.
People buy crap!

If we did not have DVD EVERYONE would be happy with VHS still. All this talk about how great HD or Blueray is, I have seen DVD in large HD tvs that looked fine to me.

Maybe what we all need is a real life and not so much fantasy!!! I mean get real, a movie should just be fun to watch, should we really worry about seeing every single detail of some gals pimple???

Normal TV has been good for 50 years, the older stuff is better than the newer stuff really most the time. Why, because it was original, it was creative, it had better performers. Lucille Ball was a classic that no one will ever excede, Red Skelton was great, all those others that started all this video mess, those were the greats.
It's not about the video quality its about the content!
Although some great stuff is done today, much with specail effects that the old timers did not have, it should still be about great content and forget the ohhs and awws of a few extra pixels.
Enjoy the story and say hell with the HD or BlueRAY, Unless your watching porn and then it's those detailed shot with high pixels maybe you care so much about and not the story eh?

[Soopafresh]

Other than Apocalypse Now and a handful of action flix.... why?

[Chopmeister]

Personally, I will continue to steer clear until:
1. The format war is resolved
2. The price becomes significantly more reasonable
3. The range of content available increases significantly - in this country there is virtually none; and most importantly
4. The DRM is irrretrievably broken and smashed into teeny-tiny shards

4 matters the most. I don't want crippling restrictions on what I can do with my media. I don't want my hardware to break because someone has (say) leaked its key and I have inserted a disc that revokes it. I don't want expensive and good hardware to break because a crooked legislator takes payola from content "industry" - and suddenly my TV/Player/Projector won't work because it has the old "whiz-bag" connector instead of the now required "gee-whiz" connector. VHS worked for me because it was a significant advance over the ... well nothing ..... recording and playback option I had before it, DVD worked because it offered better longevity/quality and random search. HD doen't offer all that much - and until the pros exceed the cons DVD will remain "good enough".

[videopoo]

Enjoy the story and say hell with the HD or BlueRAY, Unless your watching porn and then it's those detailed shot with high pixels maybe you care so much about and not the story eh?

Yucko!!!

HD is sooo wrong for porn! There are just some things I dont wish to see @ 1080x1920

Yeah story is central but come on!...., whats wrong with HD resolution? I watched U2's Rattle and Hum tonight and it looks soooo great I'm with the guy who said he's surprised that many people on this site are so cynical about HD on disc. I can understand some frustrations with HDCP issues but get over it. If you have a HD set (which more and more folks do everyday) I'm sure you can certainly afford a HD set top. Both flavors will be around for years. The pipes to stream Gigabyte after Gigabyte of high quality HD video into your homes at will is WAY far off at this point (especially for Joe Sixpack and Wendy Winecooler) so enjoy what you can get.

1. The format war is resolved
2. The price becomes significantly more reasonable
3. The range of content available increases significantly - in this country there is virtually none; and most importantly
4. The DRM is irrretrievably broken and smashed into teeny-tiny shards

1. What war? Both these formats will be around until the "next" ...whatever come along - there's just too much money and people involved here.

2. If you can afford an HD set you certainly could afford a $250 - $500 player. In a year you'll see these prices under $100

3. I'll agree with that but......I'm working on it - stand by

4. It already is

[Xesdeeni]

An additional choice should be added:

HD via red laser DVDs rules! (DivX, WMV, etc. on Ziova, IOData, Buffalo, etc.) Screw HDCP and DRM!

Xesdeeni

[TBoneit]

I'm just not buying. I'm in the DVD is good enough camp. They look fine on a 32" HDTV. Maybe if I could afford a 72" HD I'd want those players. I can't afford it and I can't afford to start over rebuying titles again, Beta>VHS>DVD>?

I'm not a betting man but I'd bet that a DVD could hold a HD movie at 1080P in Divx if there were a player and source for it. Oh wait, Microsoft already did it in WMV.

Do we need HD format discs, No Will Hollywood go to a system that will let us keep using our DVD burners and a better player for HD? No. Not enough Copy protection and they really don't want their pride and joy to be small enough to go over the Internet do they.

Since the studios control the content we will end up having to buy one of their approved CP loaded players sooner or later.

In the mean time I'm not buying HDDVD or BlueRay any more than I bought the Quasar Great Time Machine or Sanyo V-Cord when they were choices along with Beta or VHS.

When there were four competeing choices I just stepped back and didn't buy.

IMHO the one reason VHS won over Beta was originally Beta was 1 hour tape, VHS was 2 Hour (JVC) or 2 and 4 Hour most others. Then the long beta bechad 6 hour and the T160 8 hour tape) at Ep speed but, Quantity over Quality, That's the American way.

Don't believe me? Look at all the women that have ruined their looks with Implants. Pam Anderson looked much better before the implants. Most implants seem to lack the umm... Motion or feel of natural. Quantity over quality.

OR Another example When I see a movie wher ethey are touting the great special effects I know that the movie storyline most likely has shortcomings.

Or todays so called comedians withe gutter humor, they don't make me laugh near as much as the oldtime comedians did. Bob Hope, Red Skelton, Lucy, or Mr. Cheapskate always 39, Jack Benny. I recently watched some of the Dean martin roasts. I laughed harder than I've laughed in a while. Or 'Allo 'Allo on NJN when the chickens got fed nitro glycerin laced corn, Or Dad's Army when the Pigeons started blowing out of the organ's pipes. Or the Series that took place in Maplins Holiday Camp. Now that's funny stuff. Content is King.

If some of that was available in Quality HD then I might buy a player. Alas they are old enough that there will never be true noy upscaled HD from them. Darn BBS reusing some of the Dad's Army tapes and losing 3 episodes.

[edDV]

An additional choice should be added:

HD via red laser DVDs rules! (DivX, WMV, etc. on Ziova, IOData, Buffalo, etc.) Screw HDCP and DRM!

Xesdeeni

As soon as these players add quality hardware h.264 and VC-1 decoders, red laser is perfectly adequate.

For VC-1/h.264 @8Mb/s you can get 1.3 hours on a DVD-5 and 2.6 hours on a DVD-9 in good quality. VC-1 will do nicely for 1080i. More time could be packed in using 720p/23.976 for film based material. 4Mb/s would be adequate.

[gshelley61]

Wow, it's interesting to see the various reactions so far in this thread about the two competing HD disc formats. I would have thought there would be some more positive comments about them (at least the video and audio performance they provide) since this is a digital video enthusiast forum.

I'm happy with my relatively low cost used HD-DVD player. Of course, I didn't jump all the way in at very high early adopter new pricing or buy a bunch of HD-DVD titles (I rent from Netflix).

I think once a clear winner in the format war emerges (or dual format disc players become the norm with perhaps both formats surviving) then more people will eventually be interested in them. At least some of the folks who are buying the larger widescreen HDTV's probably will.

[DereX888]

IMHO the one reason VHS won over Beta was originally Beta was 1 hour tape, VHS was 2 Hour (JVC) or 2 and 4 Hour most others. Then the long beta bechad 6 hour and the T160 8 hour tape) at Ep speed but, Quantity over Quality, That's the American way.

Don't believe me? Look at all the women that have ruined their looks with Implants. Pam Anderson looked much better before the implants. Most implants seem to lack the umm... Motion or feel of natural. Quantity over quality.

Youre forgetting that almost all movies are longer than 1hr, and quite many are even 2+ hrs, so its not that only Quantity over Quality what made VHS win the 'war". If Beta would have came out with 2hrs tape from the begining, there would be no contest at all, it would have prevailed everywhere.
And lets not forget that that the same 245m (2hr NTSC) VHS tape lasts for 3hrs in european PAL, which gave it already big advantage over Beta everywhere in PAL countries from the start (which is what, ~99% of the world is PAL, isn't it? ) since people were able to cram TWO movies conveniently on a single tape at standard speed right from the begining... or a full movie with commercials, usual sport event, etc etc - withoout any fear of coming back home later and worrying about having it recorded without ending


I agree about Pamela, but that is very american way indeed. Playboy had once "boobs research" which concluded with average american male preferring C+ boobie size, while average europeans preferred B size (I dont remember other parts of the world though, but I remember americans were the ones preferring the biggest female breathing devices ) She was modelling in USA not any euro country, so IMHo it was just strictly business matter to enhance her boobs to appeal to more american males. But of course only she knows the truth, we may only discuss what we know (or see )

[DereX888]

Wow, it's interesting to see the various reactions so far in this thread about the two competing HD disc formats. I would have thought there would be some more positive comments about them (at least the video and audio performance they provide) since this is a digital video enthusiast forum.

I'm happy with my relatively low cost used HD-DVD player. Of course, I didn't jump all the way in at very high early adopter new pricing or buy a bunch of HD-DVD titles (I rent from Netflix).

I think once a clear winner in the format war emerges (or dual format disc players become the norm with perhaps both formats surviving) then more people will eventually be interested in them. At least some of the folks who are buying the larger widescreen HDTV's probably will.

There have to majority of households with HDTV television sets first.
I said it already - what good is any high definition format if you don't have the screen to display it in its resolution?
And that will take much longer to equip at least 30-40% of the households with HDTV screens than it took for DVDs to overcome VHS.
Hell, I'd say it'll take even longer than it took VHS to become clear winner over Beta.

How much of USA have HDTV cable or broadcast nowaday exactly? LOL

No one says HDTV is no good (at least I didnt see such response).
The problem lies in TV sets. Most of people already can afford the HD players of either format, but not too many can afford good size HD tv sets, even if they are like 5x cheaper nowadays than when I bought my first plasma, theyre still not cheap enough.

And lets go further - I think most of people have few TVs and DVDs in various rooms. "Switching" to HD will tie you down to that one room / one player, since there is no backward compatibility to "analog quality". I know to me it was huge inconvenience at begining when I had just 1 set. How long it will take until Average Joe can afford few complete HD sets (tvs, amps, speakers, players, recorders)? LOL I dont think, I'll take bets even, that it' won't happen during the reign of those 2 currently competing formats

(I said twice, I know, but Im sure Im right on this one) Its not the players (or formats), its the TVs what shapes the high-def market (unlike it was with VCRs and DVD players / recorders).
Yes quality is there, no one denies it, any Average Joe can see the difference in the stores on the malls, but if he has wife and kids and realises he needs at least 2 or 3 *complete sets* of high-def stuff (what about sound?), he'll run as fast as he can from the "Sony store" once he calculates how much he has to spend on all of it To buy just a HD player its not a big deal. To buy complete set (since most of people doesn't even have a stupid surround sound and speakers with their current tvs) is a whole another game.

[Xesdeeni]

An additional choice should be added:

HD via red laser DVDs rules! (DivX, WMV, etc. on Ziova, IOData, Buffalo, etc.) Screw HDCP and DRM!

Xesdeeni

As soon as these players add quality hardware h.264 and VC-1 decoders, red laser is perfectly adequate.

For VC-1/h.264 @8Mb/s you can get 1.3 hours on a DVD-5 and 2.6 hours on a DVD-9 in good quality. VC-1 will do nicely for 1080i. More time could be packed in using 720p/23.976 for film based material. 4Mb/s would be adequate.

DivX works pretty dogone well now! 90 minutes at 6 Mbps fits on a single layer DVD, and is pretty much indistinguishable from the OTA MPEG-2 source on my 65" to my hyper-critical eye (I can provide references to back up that claim).

But I agree h.264 would be better (I don't do M$ crap).

Xesdeeni

[FulciLives]

Wow, it's interesting to see the various reactions so far in this thread about the two competing HD disc formats. I would have thought there would be some more positive comments about them (at least the video and audio performance they provide) since this is a digital video enthusiast forum.

I'm happy with my relatively low cost used HD-DVD player. Of course, I didn't jump all the way in at very high early adopter new pricing or buy a bunch of HD-DVD titles (I rent from Netflix).

I think once a clear winner in the format war emerges (or dual format disc players become the norm with perhaps both formats surviving) then more people will eventually be interested in them. At least some of the folks who are buying the larger widescreen HDTV's probably will.

Well right now the price is high for the hardware but that will change and I would imagine many of us ... I know I am ... are waiting for hardware prices to drop.

Luckily I already have a 1080i capable HDTV that is fairly new with a HDMI input that is supposedly HDCP compliant. So I got that hurdle out-of-the-way LOL

However the whole issue of "which format to support" is also what is hurting things here. The market has proven before that it really cannot support two formats. Beta and VHS were at one time almost interchangeable when it came to what movies you could buy on one vs the other but eventually one had to surface as the winner. Here we have an even worse situation where not all movies are available on BOTH formats. Some movies only exist on one format or the other. This just makes the decision of choice ALL THAT MUCH HARDER.

Since prices are high for hardware the natural reaction to wait for price drops becomes even more overwhelming since it is not clear which format to buy.

No one wants to spend $300 to $400 plus buy movies that may be "no good" in time because the format you picked ends up the loser.

As I recall DVD players did not "take off" BIG time until the price point of a brand name hit $200 or less. However even if you can buy a new brand name HD-DVD for $200 or a new brand name Blu-Ray for $200 you still have the problem of choice ... which format to support?

So unless a clear winner emerges soon I say things won't "take off" until there is a $200 or less player ... brand name ... that can do BOTH formats.

Based on things that I have read ... I'm pulling for HD-DVD to win. It sounds like Blu-Ray has some issues that need to be ironed out yet it seems too late to be dealing with a product that is not yet "prime time" when there is an existing product that works and works well (i.e., HD-DVD).

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[yoda313]

As I recall DVD players did not "take off" BIG time until the price point of a brand name hit $200 or less.

Well i'm not sure how much of it is popular myth or reality but wasn't the ps2 the boom point for DVD?? I thought that was what helped take off the format when gamers started buying the system that could do movies and games?

Now sony wanted the same thing with the ps3 and bluray but they forgot the important element for it GAMES. Not to mention price

Although its interesting that there are rumors online that microsoft will offer a bluray addon for the xbox 360 late this year. That would be strange to have two addons for one game machine.

[DereX888]

As I recall DVD players did not "take off" BIG time until the price point of a brand name hit $200 or less.

Well i'm not sure how much of it is popular myth or reality but wasn't the ps2 the boom point for DVD?? I thought that was what helped take off the format when gamers started buying the system that could do movies and games?

Now sony wanted the same thing with the ps3 and bluray but they forgot the important element for it GAMES. Not to mention price

Although its interesting that there are rumors online that microsoft will offer a bluray addon for the xbox 360 late this year. That would be strange to have two addons for one game machine.

I heard that one before, and although I don't have any data to back up my words, but I am sure its a myth (maybe by sony itself, who knows)
How many PS2s were sold until ~2002? 1 million? 2 mil? 5 MIL?! (I doubt it!) So even if there were 10 millions of them sold, its stil insignificant number compared to the number of all standalone players (and if you combine them with computer dvd-rom drives - which were used for quite few years solely to play DVD movies since there were no dvd-writers yet - then the significance of PS2 in selling DVDs is clearly just bullshit)

Oh and since the dvd-writers came out at affordable prices around 2000/2001, the significance of PS2 with its inability to play burnt writable discs was actually its hindrance and another nail in its coffin (since xbox and other 'stupid gaming computers' didnt have this problem).
sony is more of entertainment (movie and music) behemoth than an electronics giant as it used to be. Its obvious sony's products *must* be inferior to the products made by competition without the 'baggage' and conflict of interest within its company (like selling music CDs without CDDA logo - because they don't conform to Audio CD specs, but they conform to "antipiracy" reasoning of music moguls within sony itself - in effect they DONT PLAY on sony's own-make standard cd players LOL!... and lets not even go to DVDs or BRs...)

And PS2 was an expensive kid's gaming toy when it came out - anyone ever seen anyone without kids at home buying it? (thats like majority of families in the developed countries... ) The 40-year old virgins don't count

[FulciLives]

As I recall DVD players did not "take off" BIG time until the price point of a brand name hit $200 or less.

Well i'm not sure how much of it is popular myth or reality but wasn't the ps2 the boom point for DVD?? I thought that was what helped take off the format when gamers started buying the system that could do movies and games?

I have a lot of friends and most of them don't make a whole lot of money. None of them had a DVD player until the price point hit $200 ... in fact I had three friends that all had the same model Panasonic DVD player as it was one of the first and popular models to hit the $199.99 price point.

I jumped the gun "early" and bought a modified region free Pioneer DV-606D for $700 but I had more money in that period of life than I do at the moment (soon to change I hope) and I knew that DVD was going to take over ... and just DVD.

With two formats ... well it just mucks things up. The fact that some movies are on one system and not the other and vice versa makes the situation even more muckedy muck muck.

Although an affordable player that does both formats (and does both equally well) is a nice idea I still say the market can only support one or the other in the long run.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[yoda313]

[quote="fulcilives"]Although an affordable player that does both formats (and does both equally well) is a nice idea I still say the market can only support one or the other in the long run.

Well if ms does come out with a bluray add on for the 360 than that could really work. If it was 200.00 like the hddvd drive than for 400 you could have both hddvd and bluray and hook it up to the pc. I'm sure they could have hacked firmware out in no time.

Again I don't know if it will happen but who knows????

[DereX888]

...
If it was 200.00 like the hddvd drive than for 400 you could have both hddvd and bluray and hook it up to the pc. I'm sure they could have hacked firmware out in no time.

Again I don't know if it will happen but who knows????

Why not?
Of course it will happen, its only a matter of time.
You can get dvd player for about 20x cheaper than 7 years ago.

So certainly just about next year - or maybe as early as this Christmas - both HD formats will sell their todays models at half the price.

[DereX888]

Although an affordable player that does both formats (and does both equally well) is a nice idea I still say the market can only support one or the other in the long run.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

DVD-R and DVD+R still co-exist and still there is no clear 'winner' after so many years.
Unusual? Yes. But its not the same as that old Beta vs VHS example, when one company didn't want to 'share' the format with other manufacturers thinking theyre big enough to handle it itself
This time there were few big makers backing up each of the formats, and its the same with BR and HD-DVD. It will drag for years same as -/+ does, but it will become transparent to consumers once "multiformat" players appear (its all about money, so both sides *WILL* have it resolved sooner rather than later - just when 'dual laser diodes' or 'multiphase diodes' or some another cheaper alternative to installing two currently expensive lasers solution becomes available ).

[somebodeez]

... but I remember americans were the ones preferring the biggest female breathing devices

Um - those aren't breathing devices. I've never been able to breath through mine anyway

[bbanderic]

Although an affordable player that does both formats (and does both equally well) is a nice idea I still say the market can only support one or the other in the long run.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

DVD-R and DVD+R still co-exist and still there is no clear 'winner' after so many years.
Unusual? Yes. But its not the same as that old Beta vs VHS example, when one company didn't want to 'share' the format with other manufacturers thinking theyre big enough to handle it itself
This time there were few big makers backing up each of the formats, and its the same with BR and HD-DVD. It will drag for years same as -/+ does, but it will become transparent to consumers once "multiformat" players appear (its all about money, so both sides *WILL* have it resolved sooner rather than later - just when 'dual laser diodes' or 'multiphase diodes' or some another cheaper alternative to installing two currently expensive lasers solution becomes available ).

The Blu-Ray/HD-DVD situation is not the same as +R/-R, only 1 HD format will survive in the long run, you can count on it. You don't see movies released on +R/-R do you? No, they're released on DVD, 1 format, they're not sold on +R/-R discs. The stores can not, and will not stock both formats, they don't have the shelf space, as movies are sold individually packaged.

The only reason +R/-R have co-existed is because they're only sold as re-writables, in stacks of 25-100.