Transferring VHS to VCD

[Craig Tucker]

I want to transfer some old VHS tapes to VCD.

When I Transfer from DV to VCD I first capture in AVI format 720 x 576 (Pal). Then convet to VCD mpeg 1 352 x 288.

The question I have is is there any point in capturing VHS to AVI 720 x 576, when the original tape is not this high a resolution. If not what resolution would you reccomend for the initial AVI capture.

Many Thanks
Craig

[dinesh]

That to some extent depends on your video. I would capture a 5 - 10 minutes duration on few possible resolutions between 352x288 and higher.
I would then convert them to MPEG Video CD format and compare them for any quality differences. If there is none, I would stick to 352x288 for capturing as I can capture more footage for my HD space.

[omoses]

I am capturing at 720*576 (DV-Video in via firewire), and then convert to VCD oder S-VCD (depend on what kind of footage).
You will have less noise in the vcd when cpaturing at high res and then compute it down to VCD, because roughly you take noise of 4 pixels and copy it together. This should, if the noise is "white noise", which consists of all frequencies equally (in theory), this will give better results. Just try it. If not, you can capture at low res and that's good.

[Macros746]

My understanding of this is that, when capturing commercial VHS, there is no point in capturing above 640 x 480. If you are capturing home recorded movies then there is no point in capturing above 352 x 480 (NTSC). I have had VERY good results with this capture resolution.

Macros

[iant]

Just to throw my own 2 cents worth in, I've found that half resolution, 352X480(576 for PAL) produces good results but capturing full res (704X480 or 704X576 for PAL) and reducing with a high quality reduction filter in VirtualDub before frameserving to your favourite encoder gives a more even result.

Of course, this is a personal preference but the best answer is 'Try a few and see what you like'.

Have fun,
Ian

[mojo]

I would do a short test with 1 minute of footage, captured at various resolutions and burn each resulting clip to a VCD. Compare the results.

I did this and learned that capping at higher res and scaling down when encoding DID NOT give me a noticably better picture. In fact, I got some minor scaling artifacts from reducing the size of the image! I used TMPenc, by the way.

My results showed that a hi-res cap (meaning uncompressed AVI or very high bitrate mpg) at 352X240 produced VCDs that looked as good (if not slightly better) than scaling down a cap at 640X480.

Try it yourself and see what you come up with!


Mojo

[Mr Walker]

I'm using virtual dub to capture at 704*576 from VHS-video. When I'm going to resize the picture down to 352*288 for a pal vcd, is there any differences between "resize" or "2:1 reduction" in the filtermenu?

[damnim]

Am I to understand from you all that the actual size of a commercial VHS tape is 352x240? I really never thought of checking this out.

[vhelp]

don't mind me throwing in a screw...

My JVC HR-s3900U/3910U manual says
this:
SIGNAL SYSTEM:
--------------
NTSC-type color signal and EIA monochrome signal, 525 lines/60flds

Horizontal Resolution:
VHS - 230 lines
SVHS - 400 lines

I can't believe how "odd" the 230 lines are. Shee'shssss!!

-vhelp

[damnim]

Thanks vhelp

Gives me a clue how to search, but it looks as tho the 352x240 is pretty close to the actual.

Time to websnoop.

[vhelp]

damnim,

...yes, and, the reason for the distortion from VHS to VCD/SVCD and
vs-versa.

Notice how the 230 is not so evenly scaled downto/up 240 for your TV?
It may seem so small a number, but in actuallity, its enough to make
or break a good looking VCD, especially if you're comparing to
dvd or something like that.
Not that you're comparing against dvd, but in trying to GET as close
to DVD quality as posible.
.
.
NOW, you KNOW why people capture from VHS a HIGH res. Cause if you
do, you'll end up with a better scale down to 352x240 for your TV!!
Gottit???

-vhelp

[damnim]

Was just over to DVD Digest and learned some interesting things I didn't know. http://www.divx-digest.com/articles/vhs_capture2.html

It appears your right about capturing to a higher resoulution. It has alot to do with the interlace. Capturing at 352x240 I would loose half of the picture data which makes since. 352x480 would capture both fields.

According to the article they are recommending a 640x480 resolution capture. http://www.divx-digest.com/articles/vhs_capture.html

I'm glad I looked into this forum before beginning VHS to DVD. I would have failed miserably.

Be Good

[guywithaquestion]

OK, so it seems we now know the best recommendation for resolution to capture in is 640x480, right?
Now what's the best way to preserve the picture quality, by burning to a VCD or to an SVCD? And at what resolution? Is it the case that once we've captured at 640x480 and then converted it to 352x480 MPEGI that it would be pointless to burn it as an SVCD at a higher resolution? Or would the VCD yeild a video quality just as good as the original VHS tape?
Thanks all.

[vhelp]

Well, IMO, the best resolution (res. ) is the res. you captured
in, and NOT the lesser or greater after capturing.

below, is a little confusing, but see if you can follow the
understanding.
* first all, we (I) am assuming that your ultimate goal is to
play the best quality for TV viewing. PC viewing is secondary
and not really a true factor, as VCD/SVCD/DVD is really ment to
be viewed on TV. So, we wont get into PC viewing issues here.
* Depedning on the source quality, and the mediuam you are
capping from, the higher the capture the better. But, the
absolute min. is 352x480.
* if your goal is to make TRUE SVCD's, then your absolute aim
should be 480x480 captures. If you can't do that at that res.
due to hardware/cpu issues, than you will most likely have to go for the 352x480 capping, and change your goal to an
xSVCD, assuming you still want to stick with SVCD or in that
area. Just rememeber, 480x480 will end up being bumped down to
352x480 anyways... or is it 352x240! anyhow, so it dosen't
really matter which route you choose (352/480x480)
* Don't worry too much about a few frame drops. I recive a few
even at 352x480 captures. What's a few?? well, for me, a few
is 5, 10, 20 an hour.
* ...not 704/720x480 cause it will only drain your resources or
tax your system so much, that you will have too many issues to
attent to. And, add to it, that the quality really isn't that
noticable. I've done a few, and IMO, the quality is the same.
Now, i can't do a constant 704/420x480 cap, due to my system's
limitation, though it pretty fast - go figure. But, 352x480
will give you great quality AVI's.
* your source has to be of good quality. No static or snow,
else it will add to blocks, etc.
* VHS captures, no matter how good you capture it, will always
have this snow or static look, but that's VHS quality for ya.
* I've said that if you can capture VHS source and encode it
and it looks the same as the VHS source, then that's as good as
an encode as you'll get.
* I've read many posts here how people use many filtering
processes to get good quality VHS encodes. I haven't really
seen any sample clips of VHS capture to vcd or svcds yet, but
I'd sure like to see a few samples to see how far people are
willing to go with VHS captures.
* one issue to nailing good quality, final encodes (vcd/svcd)
is how you handle the "interlace" and "field order" issues in
your captures/encode. The wrong method could yield poor quality
vcd's or svcd's in addition to your usual encode process.
++ I'm messing around with this issue as I write this, and I
++ have found that my encodes can be improved it I encode these
++ captures correctly, and in addition, utilize the "telecine"
++ process as well.
++ goal is usually to stick as close to standards as possible,
++ and is usually not easy to maintain.
* if you are going to capture video, from say, a VHS, then

Have I nailed capture/encodes yet??? NO! But I keep striving
for the best I can make them. It's an never ending endever!

So, as far as your question goes...
Weather you cap at 352x480, 480x480, 640x480, etc... whatever
you cap at, it all depends on what YOU think is VHS quality.
Me, VHS quality is just that, VHS quality! ...snow, static,
noise, etc. are in VHS. You can't improve VHS qualtiy caps
FROM vhs.
However, say for instance, you make a VCD from a dvd source
based on the smartpr apps, ect. You can deffinately make
a better-than vhs quality VCD - that is, w/out the snow, stitic
or nose from VHS source.
And remember, try playing a store bought VHS tape a few times.
You'll start to see lines, and thing in no time, as in my
experience. So, to compare a VCD to a VHS, IMO is not a fair
comparison, since the VHS tapes don't last long enough to
compare! ...LOL

-vhelp