Hard drive

[Mrsash]

Ok wont ask how reliable Hard drives are? Now this is the situation. Brought five Hard drives before, never had any trouble and these were WD. Now brought 3 hard drives all Seagate, one 320GB and two 400Gb about three months ago. I recently started having trouble reading back files from my hard drive, especially CRC errors. So downloaded seagate tools and ran some tests. Two hard drives which gave trouble failed tests. Now moved what ever data I could off the harddrive from one harddrive and then did a whole format for that drive and this time it passed the test. Can anyone tell me if this Hard drive is bad or the OS is corrupting my data, or the fact that I initially did a quick format is the reason?
Is there a tool which will show me error locations on my HD?


thanks

[piano632]

I'm surprised your drives worked at all if you only did a quick format. Unless the drive comes pre-formatted (most of them don't; some external ones do) then you need to do a full format before use. The only time a quick format should be used is if the drive had previously had a full format.

[Poppa_Meth]

Seatools can do a special kind of quick format to Seagate drives that allows a new drive to be setup in about 30 seconds. I've never had any problems doing it this way but I don't know that I'd trust Windows quick format to work quite the same way.

[Krispy Kritter]

The problem could be any number of issues. What type of drives are they...IDE or SATA? Are they connected to the MB or to an addon card?

And FWIW, I just installed a new Seagate drive as my C drive about a week ago. I only performed a quick format which took about 1 minute, and the drive works fine.

[TBoneit]

Main difference between quick format and Full format is quick formatsets up the Fat tables only.

Full format does the same and then it reads every sector and marks as ba dthe ones that fail.

Does anyone think that the computer manufacturers do a full format? Wrong. They just put an image on it and presume since it is new it is ok.

Microsoft has had a Quick format that works on new never formatted deives sine WIndows 98 at least. Partition with OFdisk, reboot, and OFormat /Q, done. Are they real Seagates or those junk Maxtors they rebadged as Seagate. Why do you think Maxtor was the first to make the jump to 1 Year warranties?

The Seagate tools may have mapped in spares to replace bad sectors.

[Mrsash]

These are seagate ones which are latest perpendicular as far as I know. I have never done a full format of any drive in the past so I am not really sure how the WD drives worked fine inspite of this this. One 400GB drive seems to be working fine as far as I can tell. Should I return this drive or am I wasting precious weeks since all they have to do is run the test and it will pass. Then they just will return it I suppose saying this drive is fine... if you know what I mean. When do you get CRC errors any way?

[Mrsash]

Ok did the test again Fail fail fail. So might have to return both drives after all. What now concerns me is that I brought a 500 Gb seagte to back all the stuff since data is most important for me. Since this new drive is a seagate and the one working at the moment is also a 400Gb seagate??? Should I be biting my nails!!!

[piano632]

There's nothing wrong with Seagate drives in general. Either you got a bad one or something else is wrong. I'm a bit leary of any drive over 320GB myself, but that's just me.

[TBoneit]

Well you've just een the problem with only using a single hard drive to back up. If you must use hard drives you back up to them and then sit them on the shelf and use two drives with the second being a copy of the first. Myself I have little I'd hate to lose on the computer only. It also resides on a external hard drive and DVDs.

I've seen to many here at work where they paid for something, installed it , deleted teh email and software since it was installed and then hard drive problems.
For example my Software directory where all the software I bought online as a downloadable. Each package has a directory that holds the software and the product key(s). Under TMPGEnc I have subdirs that hold DVD Author 1.5 & the AC3 plug-in and product keys. another dir has TDA3 and emails with product keys, and another has Xpress3 and email with keys. and so on.
These are on two hard drives and two sets of DVDs.

[bevills1]

Has a different ide cable been tried?

[ntscuser]

I've seen to many here at work where they paid for something, installed it , deleted teh email and software since it was installed and then hard drive problems.
For example my Software directory where all the software I bought online as a downloadable. Each package has a directory that holds the software and the product key(s). Under TMPGEnc I have subdirs that hold DVD Author 1.5 & the AC3 plug-in and product keys. another dir has TDA3 and emails with product keys, and another has Xpress3 and email with keys. and so on.

Yes, it's great fun isn't it? I especially love it when a program file becomes corrupted and I need a so-called "repair key" from the manufacturer as the regular install key won't work any more

[TBoneit]

Looks like I've been lucky never needed a repair key. OTOH I'm on a fresh install of Windows from May right now. I had been running the old one for a while.

Now XP MCE 2005. I've done some test caps with it and it isn't bad. The TV capture from its guide worked OK. Selection was easy, etc. I'll probably be on another reload by this time next year. That just seems to keep things humming along smoother.

Just need to figoure a better way to hold the IR blaster by my Satellite box for the channel changes.

[Mrsash]

Sorry forgot to mention all are sata drives.

[bevills1]

According to http://club.cdfreaks.com/showthread.php?t=217327 sata is unstable, and OP there had data corruption problems using sata drives. Also see http://club.cdfreaks.com/showthread.php?t=217235 for more details from same OP there. Note I had similar issues with ide drives and even got RMA replacement for 1 WD drive thinking it was bad drive only to have problems persist. A bios update seems to have fixed my ide instability problems.

[Nelson37]

Anybody saying SATA is inherently unstable is someone you should STOP listening to in any serious manner. It is a new technology, and like any new technology people are not familiar with, people experience more problems than with the older technology they know.

A hard drive which fails diagnostics should be returned. Most especially if it fails the diagnostic provided by the manufacturer, these programs are Specifically Intended to minimize returns. If the company diag software says FAIL, stop right there and arrange to ship it back. Re-format and re-use was a complete waste of time, and endangered your data.

Bad sectors on an HD are not necessarily cause for return, however Increasing Numbers of them are.

I ALWAYS do a full format on a new drive. Specifically to identify any bad sectors and their quantity. When you test-drive a car, do you move it 3 feet in the driveway or take it around a couple blocks? Yes, it depends on how much time you have. Like if you have enough time to do all the OS and software installation a second time on a replacement drive after the first one turns out to be defective.

All brands of drive will fail. All users will experience failure eventually. Most users have their own preference, and many like Seagate. The only time I have purchased over $3000.00 worth of drives, with company assurance they would work in the application, and then EVERY SINGLE ONE of those drives, pluse 2 more replacements, FAILED TOTALLY within 90 days, take a wild guess who made the drives and certified their correct usage? I still buy Seagate for customers who request it, in all other cases and for myself exclusively I use Western Digital. Seagate cost me not only time, effort, frustration, and money, but they also lost me a good customer. Western Digital products have never caused me such loss.

[TBoneit]

Seagates started coming with a 5 year warranty, they still did not last long. I think the 5 year warranty was only a marketing ploy and that most do not avail themselves of the warranty.

For desktop drives there are not that many choices left.

Seagate has been around a long time. Maybe they've lost something along the way.

My first hard drive was a Seagate 20Megabyte MFM installed in a XT Clone (8Mhz) when the IBM was 4.77Mhz.

[ntscuser]

I work my Seagates 24/7 and none has failed yet. Ditto for Maxtor. Whenever I thought I had a failed disc it turned out to be a corrupt file that a surface scan was able to fix.

[bevills1]

I've had more problems with Maxtor than any other brand and have had no problems with either Seagate or Western Digital. Actually though I think there's a finite number of drives that will be bad, and it's more a matter of luck regardless of manufacturer. Drives failing diagnostic tests should be returned; trying to make a defective drive work is a complete waste of time.

[Mrsash]

Returned the drives, lets see.

thanks guys

[ari dubov]

I'm surprised your drives worked at all if you only did a quick format. Unless the drive comes pre-formatted (most of them don't; some external ones do) then you need to do a full format before use. The only time a quick format should be used is if the drive had previously had a full format.

Thats good yo know I never do a full format, only quick formats an I have had my issues with hard drives.

Thanks
Ari Dubov

[piano632]

Maybe I'm wrong, but I always assumed Quick Format on HDD's was intended for a quick way to erase a drive that had previously had a Full Format (in much the same way that drag-n-drop CD/DVD's work).

[TBoneit]

That is what quick format is used for, However the drive will never be better than when it is new, wear and tear.

Most System builders do a quick format on a new drive. Can you really see Dell or HP for example having the drives all there formatting away on a full format?

They take a drive image and put it onto the new drive. At that point the new never partitioned or formatted drive is now very quickly made into an exact image of the source drive. The software does not partition and format and then copy.

A New drive should have been verified by the manufacturer the bad sectors remapped with spares in the manufacturing process.

My procedure and It has never failed on my own personal computers or Customers computers is:

New drive, quick format from back in the Windows 98 days. Using the MS Oformat program that will Quick format a never formatted drive.

Drives that need cleaning because of customer request or really bad Malware infestations, Run the makers utility, Wipe the drive, thorough test, and then use. If any errors found and repaired, replace. The drive could be going sour. use for scratch use only. If customers drive, try and convince them to buy a new drive.

[Mrsash]

well just did the test on the 500GB seagate I brought to backup everything. Well after only two weeks its failed tests in seagate software, while the WD still passes the tests. I called seagate they said trust the software. I asked why the high fail rate, and this one failed in two weeks. I have been asked to email them with the details. Lets see what happens. I am officially over seagate...

[TBoneit]

Well Seagate did buy Maxtor... Maybe you got a rebadged Maxtor.

[Mrsash]

Received email back from seagate apologizing for the problems. Meanwhile no explanation of what is wrong. Store calls me tells me they sent brand new drive 400GB and waiting for the 320GB. I asked the store if they can replace it with a 750GB drive. He said as long as they send a new 320GB drive he does not mind. He also said seagate would not tell him what was wrong with the drive. Seasgate's email suggested it could be my PC issues. What a crock

[Mrsash]

I have returned 2 seagate drives and got a WD 750GB drive. Guess what!! It started having CRC errors and bad sectors after three weeks. The store told me it might be my power supply. Is that possible or is he just spinning some excuse? I am at wits end. How do four brand new drives come up with this problem and one brought at the same time does not show any. I also have drives brought two years ago working fine on the same setup....

[TBoneit]

Could be environmental issues or something in the computer.

It may not be the drives themselves.

Maybe the controller or the drive data cables. I have seen bad motherboards, Memory or power supplies that led to corrupted drives.

One other possibility. Computer location either drives running very hot, or vibration. For example do you run a sub woofer loud next to the computer? Do you have someone using it that likes to tap/pound on the table it sits on. Or is it on the floor where it can be kicked accidently?

One other very slight possibility his wholesaler is shipping him drives damaged in transit or replacments for defctive units. We once got a case of Drives that were 50% bad right from the start and the rest died shortly thereafter. Either a bad batch or very rough treatment in transit.

Things happen. Have you tried a External drive?

[aedipuss]

yes it could be power supply related or it might be as simple as a bad power cable end connector. it could be killing any drive in that spot using it. try a splitter off of a known good one.

[zoobie]

HDD failure rates are each manufacturer's trade secret. When buying, stay away from eBay. Manufacturers offer bulk purchases of lots where some work and some don't. Sellers put these on eBay and let the buyer determine which are bad wasting your good time and money. If you're lucky, you'll get a refund. If not...you're SOL. Buy from a reputable source like www.newegg.com

[videobread]

All this hard drive talk is scary. Just had my first HD failure ever on Sat. It was my F: drive, secondary drive. It was a WD 250 gig Caviar. Bought at retail in 2003. Ordered a replacement from CompUSA Sat. A 300 gig Mator Basic. This post scared me so much that I just canceled the order. Replaced it with another drive I had laying around. I'll never look at drives the same.