NTLDR Missing on existing Windows XP

[redwudz]

When troubleshooting computer problems, you always need to go back to 'square one' every time you make a change. I've torn computers apart and reinstalled OS's just to find a IDE cable wasn't 'fully' plugged in. Never dismiss the most obvious explanations. And welcome to the 'club'.

[kimco52]

Well, I thought I had discovered the problem as I mentioned, that it was a bad IDE cable. Now I am not so sure.
The computer came up with the same error again.... NTLDR missing.

So, I went back to almost square one and played with different docking stations and went back to everything unplugged except the boot disk and now it just came up with "Bad boot disk" or something similar to that (It was a few hours ago and I may not have the exact wording). It also tried to boot from CD but I did not have one inserted. So, all of a sudden, it does not recognize the boot disk again. I tried another brand new cable from the packages and still no change. I had also fresh installed on a new disk a week or so ago when I said I did it and that disks boot is not recognized. I can put the disks in the other computer as an addon disk and I can access them and it looks like everything is intact.

I am thinking I may have a hardware problem with the PATA port on the motherboard. The BIOS recognizes the disk just fine. It just does not see it as bootable....... either disk. When it does not see it, it goes searching disk by disk for a bootable one and when it finds other drives (when they are plugged in), none of them have a bootable partitions so it comes up with the NTLDR error. These drives are on my Promise ATA card. I don't think NTLDR is the main problem. It is just an error message based on what the system is doing. Evidently, the "C" drive is recognized by BIOS and reads the particulars but is unable to access or process the actual data on the disk.

Stripping the connections down to the bare minimum does not boot......which leads me to think it is a problem with the motherboard.

Further testing will have to wait a few days.

[bevills1]

Has motherboard BIOS been updated? I had similar issues with IDE system that randomly lost partitions, i.e. showed affected partitions as unformatted free space. I even got RMA replacement for 1 drive thinking the drive was bad only to have the problem persist. This problem would recur within 2 weeks of last occurrence and sometimes as often as 2 or 3 times in a week. Finally on another site BIOS update was suggested, and it's now been over 6 weeks since BIOS update with no further problems.

It's still possible you may be experiencing SATA instability like the link in my 6/1 post, but the BIOS update is worth a try. I suppose you'd have to download the update on another system if you are unable to boot this one. Make sure you get correct BIOS for your motherboard from the motherboard manufacturer's site and correctly follow flash instructions because incorrect flash can result in permanently unusable motherboard which you may or may not know. The easiest way to follow flash instructions is to print a copy.

[kimco52]

BIOS is the latest. F8 dtd 2005.

Strange. Connected main drive back up (only thing connected) and it booted right up an hour ago. No probs. shut down, put new disk with fresh OS installed (that I did a couple weeks ago) and it booted right up.....wanting to finish installation and upgrades. Shut down, put in old C: drive and it booted right up. Nothing was different from last week. It just sat there over the weekend because I was busy and did not turn it on after the last tests I mentioned above.

I am confused. Maybe it will die at the end of this week again. I'll have to plug in all my extra stuff and see if it still works. Probably, for a while.

Grrrrr

[Nelson37]

OK, you state that nothing was different from last week, when it did NOT work, and now, when it DOES.

Except that statement is completely, totally false and the failure to recognize this points to a large part of the problem.

The boot drive was unplugged, and just now plugged back in. The cable connection has changed. Combine that with the earlier issue where a cable appeared to be faulty, and the probable answer begins to appear.

You are most likely not completely seating the cable onto the connection interface. Check for bent pins, run your finger firmly up and down the cable interface to the HD, also the MOBO, make ABSOLUTELY CERTAIN it is firmly inserted. Throw any old cables out the window, you have several new ones, use them. Make sure they are 80-wire cables, NOT the old 40's.

Second thing is to leave off the cartridges, the Promise ATA card, and all other drives while running the system in working order for at least a day or two. When you add things back on, do ONE AT A TIME, verifying boot function and system stability again for at least a day or two, for EACH ADDED DEVICE.

It is quite possible that you have more than one problem, and the drive cartridges are a prime failure point. These just do not last very long, and they frequently have connection problems, with symptoms exactly as you have described.

Don't get in a hurry. Take your time. No rush. It is when you get frustrated and hurried that these sort of problems occur. And for the love of God, never, EVER, let the PC know that you really need it to work, right now. ALWAYS project happy, positive thoughts towards the PC.

[kimco52]

Thank you Nelson. You always give good straight to the point advice. I guess you are correct. Something did change. I did unplug it and then plugged it back in. Having said that, I did it multiple times last week with no change in the result at that time. I was going back and forth between two different drives.... I also moved the disk (out of the plug in trays) to a different computer (this one) to see if it still was readable and data was ok. It was. Same with the other boot drive I made last week. It was ok. I then put the older drive back in the bad computer and tried to boot but it still said bad boot disk... insert good one. I turned it off, unplugged it, plugged in the newer one...same response. I unplugged it and called it a day/weekend. Then, this morning I plugged the old one back in and it started out and booted. I did nothing else. Only the drive was connected to the cable.... no docking stations, no cd/dvd. Nothing plugged into SATA, or the second IDE port and no scsi cards or promise cards.. just the drive by itself to cable and power directly to the connector on the mobo.

I put another new cable on it last week when I said I did. Pins on drives all look good and feel good. The connector goes on firmly. Not loose and takes effort to unplug from either end (mobo or disk). These are all 80 wire ATA100 cables. I haven't had a 40 for years.

You may be correct in stating that I could have more than one problem. Just gotta take them one at a time.

I love my PC. It is just sitting over there purring away at the moment. I backed up my critical data a little bit ago. We'll see if it still purrs later. Or, maybe try and restart it.....

[Nelson37]

You have experienced what every PC technician has. You may have to get them alone, and pour a beer or two into them, but they will eventually admit it.

It is called The Day When Everything You Touch Turns To Shit. When you are having one of these days, you can't install a floppy drive or plug in a power cable. Nothing works. The solution is to simply walk away and come back later. Virtually everytime, doing what is apparently exactly the same thing which failed earlier will work just fine, like it is supposed to.

Some will say it is some small detail which was overlooked, because it is so automatic as to not require attention. Coming back fresh just ensures that whatever the little detail is, it does not get overlooked and you may very well not even notice the difference.

Others will say that you have simply used up all the available magic on that day, and must take time off to recharge the supply of positive waves.

This is one of those things which cannot be proven one way or the other. Just knowing that it does indeed happen, and what cures the problem, is sufficient. Waiting is, to grok in fullness.

[TBoneit]

Or to put it another way computer repair is an art not a science.

[kimco52]

Well, it worked for a few days anyway.
It died again. I would be doing something simple (Quicken/Quickbooks) and it would not save the transaction. When I got to Quickbooks, it wouldn't let me finish a transaction when screen went black, then a blue screen telling me about hardware problems. Nothing there but C drive and CD. Turned off, then back on. BIOS could not see the drive and tried to boot to CD (none there) so it stopped. Put the other drive that I created a few weeks ago and BIOS saw it but when it started to boot, sat on Windows initial screen forever.

I think I will put a different MOBO in and start fresh again and see where that gets me. Ran Microsoft Memory check diagnostic (runs from floppy) and all was OK with memory.

[Coldstone]

Well i just had this happen unfortunately under slightly different circumstances. well where to begin my old HD was dying/ giving symptoms of dying so i went out and updated to a 250 gb HD (Both of them are SATA) a new CD/DVD drive and a 1gb stick of ram got home and installed them alland it took like 3 days to get everything fixed and working properly and i now have both HD's plugged in well my main one (250gb) has a week old copy of Windows XPon it and the other HD (80gb) was format6ted after transferring all my files to the new one and i installed Windows Vista Ultimate Lite (x86 for all) and it corrupted the ntldr on the main HD and i did the fresh install crap keeping the files but overwriting my windows files with new fresh ones and it fixed it except i couldnt boot into vista (no big deal only wanted it for the trial time so i could see what it could do with my hardware) but to make a long story short the new files fixed it but now i get the same problem AGAIN and im sitting here thinking "WTF eh?" so now ive got a half deleted vista drive (gonna use xp cd to format it to maike it a backup drive (looks like i is gunna needs it)) its only been like 2 days since i did the fresh file install so im sitting here weighing the pros and cons of hucking my 2.4GHz , 1.5Gb ram, ati x1650 pro 512MB vid card, 48x cd/dvd burner, and 250Gb and 80Gb HD's out onto the highway near me and believe me with as many problems as it has all the time it is damn near frigging worth it. tried the fixboot and fixmbr didnt work and chkdsk says theres nothing wrong AND STILL IT WONT BOOT! ARRGGGHHHHH!! so as you can see any help would be great. i'm Coldstone (A Canadian eh ) and that was my problem thx for listenin. P.S. plz dont suggest yelling every profanity i can think of at it because that takes like 20 minuntes and doesnt really help i mena yeh it helps me blow of a bit of steam(damn Steam but thats a whole other rant) but that is not the help im looking for thx