DVD Recorder with Hard Drive - Recommendation

[slickster]

I'm looking for a dvd recorder with hard drive for my wife.
She wants to be able to watch a program on TV and record a different program on a different channel, then copy it onto a DVD.

I looked at a Rogers PVR - too expensive.
I briefly looked into a TIVO. Don't know too much about it though.
My other alternative is the above mentioned recorder.

My question is: for what's out there right now, what is a good quality recorder with hard drive with the least amount of problems, simple to use and at a decent price.
I'm willing to spend up to about $600.00 canadian dollars and where can I purchase such a machine.

P.S. if TIVO PVR or Rogers PVR is a a good alternative please explain.

Thanks!!
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[FulciLives]

My vote goes to the Pioneer DVR-640H-s but this model is now very hard to find. Some web sites are selling the European models which can do NTSC and will work in the USA and Canada.

I would go with this model: CLICK HERE

The price is $519.00 USD and shipping to Canada is $28.00 USD for a grand total of $547.00 USD

Anyways that model is a European model but it is very similar to the DVR-640H-s (the USA/Canadian model) but it actually has some nice features missing on the USA/Canadian model. One nice feature is a DV input as well as a larger HDD. Of course the price is a bit more than the USA/Canadian model but probably worth every penny especially since finding a brand new USA/Canadian model is nearly impossible now-a-days.


- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[lordsmurf]

What you want probably cannot be done with a single machine, if this is digital cable (instead of analog) or satellite. PVR is the only option, but no "transfer to DVD" function.

If it's analog, and the is newer, all you have to do is split the signal from the wall, one coax to the tv, one to the recorder. The recorder composite output goes to the tv. You can then watch the tv alone (cable) -AND- record cable on the recorder, at the same time.

[CrazyCanuck]

Hi Slickster, I would suggest to have a look at the LG models available at Future Shop (Canada). They are considered as good recorders. The dvd recorders with hardrives are not as abondant as they used to be a few years back. So if transfering recordings to dvd is important to you I would act fast before the DVD recorders with HDD totally disappear.

Future Shop currently has 2 LG models, LRH-890 (250GB= approx. 50 hours of recording capacity ath the highest setting, HQ) for $469 cad and the LRH-880 (80GB= approx. 17 hours of HQ) for $299 cad.

As for PVRs, those are hard drive recorders only, no dvd drive. As for Tivo, I'm not aware that Tivo services are available to us in "Canuckland" so I guess not a good bet, and again no dvd drive.

Cheers.

CC

[slickster]

FulciLives: thanks for the info. I will definitely look into that.

lordsmurf: My service is digital and I was wondering why it would not work.
A buddy of mine has a Philips DVD recorder he bought 1-2 years ago and it works for him.
Just curious....


CrazyCanuck: I thought the LG models (comments) were not that great. This unit would definiately be the easiest to get my hands on though.

Quick question though. Why are DVD recorders with Hard drives getting harder to find?

Thanks

[CrazyCanuck]

In North America, mainly the States, the manufacturers tried to compete with PVRs and Tivo in providing these DVD\HDD models to the consumer, the average consumer went with the readily available PVR and Tivo services instead and the sales for these models didn't take off so they are not being produced by the high-end manufacturers anymore.

You'll still see lower end stuff like Daytek, Symphonic and others. All recorders have quirks, there is no fail-safe unit that does it all. I f you research any model you'll see that comments vary from very content to totally disappointed, all depends on your wants and needs for instance I own Liteon-based recorders (Liteon 5005, 5007, Ilo r04, Ilo hd04) because I like the picture quality of the LSI chip and the HDD model allows me to copy to a dvd AND vice-versa, dvd to hardrive, some models don't have that feature. To me this is useful if and when I need to produce an additional dvd copy for whatever purpose, I can do it and so does the LGs.

Of course Pioneer has produced some real workhorses but as FuliLives mentions, they are becoming harder to find, you might want to look online and in smaller electronic shops in your area also (Costco Canada for instance, not sure what they have these days). Opinions vary a lot when discussing the various models but it's been mentioned in this forum that Toshiba, JVC, Pioneer, LG, Liteon are good models and I'm sure that other users are very happy with other models, in other words they're is no great models, only good ones !!! WOW that's abusing the word "other" !!!

Well that was my two cents

CC

[slickster]

Thanks CrazyCanuck. I just don't want to pay Rogers any more money per month.
They want another 15.00 plus taxes for the PVR.
I guess I'll have to decide which way I want to go.
This is very frustrating.
I talked with my buddy who works at a local retail store that sells electronincs and he said you can watch a program on one channel and record something else on another and others say no.
He sells mostly the Panasonic lines specifically the DMREH55 for about $600.00.
I would like to know if he's pulling my leg.
For people in the Ontario Canada area I have Rogers Digital VIP cable and I rent a digital cable box. Can I or can I not watch one program on one station and record another program on another station if I have a dvd recorder with a hard drive. That is the question.
I'm thinking that lordsmurf is correct on his point.
Thanks all for your help.

[FulciLives]

220-Electronics also has a cheaper model Pioneer than the one I was talking about above.

The model is DVR-340H ---> CLICK HERE

The price is $389.00 USD + $28.00 USD shipping to Canada for a total of $417.00 USD

The DVR-340H seems very similar to the DVR-540H with the only differences (as I can see it) being a smaller HDD (80GB vs 250GB) and no DV input.

Just thought I'd mention it in case you thought the DVR-540H was too expensive.

I feel that the Pioneer DVD recorders with a HDD built-in are as good as you can buy and are not as complicated as some ... although don't fool yourself into thinking it is as easy as a VHS VCR ... but the Pioneer models are built well and just plain work well.

The problem with most DVD recorders (built in HDD or not) is that they just plain have too many "issues" and don't work well.

However what LordSmurf said is true. To watch one channel while recording another you will probably need two cable TV or satellite TV receivers.

In the USA the cable and satellite TV providers offer receivers with a DVR function built-in (like TIVO) and that will allow recording while watching and they work well for the most part ... but you have no way to archive (i.e., burn to a DVD). That's the big rub.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[CrazyCanuck]

Yeap, I know, there's a lot to digest. Just to clarify some issues about watching and recording.

Some confusions lies around interpretation of facts. Here's a few clarifications.

The coaxial output on the recorder is useless, as LordSmurf points out, that's why you need to split the cable, one to the tv and one to the recorder, connect the recorder to the tv with your choice of A/V lines. While recording, you can watch the TV TUNER and when done switch over to the appropriate input line to watch your recorder.

The point of confusion is that some recorders, not all, will allow you to record on the HDD while watching something else off the HDD, those would be HDD models that have a buffer such as the Philips HDRW 720/17 which I also have, other HDD models without the buffer such as Liteons will not allow you to watch one thing and record something else on the HDD at the same time. So dependant on how clear the question was, you'll get all kinds of answers

[FulciLives]

One thing I would like to point out about recording while watching.

If you go with the DVR supplied by Rogers then know that you can record one channel and watch another. You probably can even record two different channels at once although you are stuck watching one or the other (or turn it off and do something else). A nice feature of the DVR is that it will record HDTV as HDTV so when you play it back later you have true HDTV quality. Can't do that with a DVD recorder.

However you can't archive anything.

So one solution is to buy the PVR and a cheaper non-HDD equipped DVD recorder. That way you can record to the DVD recorder what you play back from the PVR if you have something you want to keep.

However most DVD recorders without a built-in HDD are limited to options ... the most irritating being "fixed" recording times. The Pioneer HDD equipped DVD recorders allow you to record in 5 to 10 minute increments. This is key to maximizing quality plus if you are recording a 2 hour TV program you can use a 2 hour 10 minute setting and set the start and end times a few minutes early/late so as not to miss the first few moments or ending moments. Most DVD recorders with "fixed" recording times go straight from 2 hours to 3 hours ... some from 2 hours to 4 hours. Few (if you are lucky) do 2 hours to 2 1/2 hours.

Another point ... in the USA some channels are analog and some are digital. This will probably change soon though (knock on wood). However if the channel is analog you can do as LordSmurf said ... split the cable wire and one goes to the DVD recorder and one goes to the cable box. The DVD recorder will pick up analog channels but not digital channels. Under this method you can record an analog channel while watching a digital channel.

Another note ... the PVR will record digital channels in pure digital. So if you record something and play it back later you get the same exact quality as the "live broadcast". This means you can use a DVD recorder afterwards to make an archive copy and get 100% quality as the "live broadcast". However analog channels recorded to the DVR will be compressed. If you want to then save those to a DVD recorder you got double compression (once to the DVR and then again from the DVR to the DVD recorder).

The system I use?

I have a DVR and split the cable so the DVD recorder gets the analog channels. I record all analog channels direct to the DVD recorder (a Pioneer with a built-in 80GB HDD). For the digital channels I record to the PVR because I get 100% quality on playback so if I want to save something I can play it back later and record it to the Pioneer DVD recorder.

That "compromise" is about as good as it gets unless you buy a 2nd cable box and then one feeds the TV and one feeds the DVD recorder. In actuality this is probably the "best" system in terms of cable management. I constantly have to fiddle with the cables under the system I use now (i.e., connect the DVR from the TV to the DVD recorder when I want to archive then back from the DVD recorder to the TV to watch HDTV). Yes it's all a big pain-in-the ass LOL

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[slickster]

WOW!!! That's alot of information to absorb.

Thanks again everyone for you thoughts and opinions.

I know I don't make alot of posts on this site but man....do I read alot here.

This site ROCKS!!!!

[lordsmurf]

Digital cables channels are not understood by DVD recorders. You must have two cable boxes in the same room, if you want to use anything other than the cable company PVR. Or only record/watch analog channels.

I choose to watch analog only on my split that goes to the tv. The other goes to a digital cable box, which then goes to the recorder s-video inputs, which is then fed to the tv component inputs. Unless I rent another cable box, there is no way to watch one channel, and record another, while using digital cable.

Welcome to the world of cable/satellite technology.

[jamiemark]

Slickster, I was at the Sam's Club in Pickering and they had LOTS of a Pioneer recorder with HDD in stock (531 model). It was something like $360 I believe.

[FulciLives]

Slickster, I was at the Sam's Club in Pickering and they had LOTS of a Pioneer recorder with HDD in stock (531 model). It was something like $360 I believe.

I have the DVR-531H-s and it is now an "older" model but it is a good model. The only problem is the built-in TV GUIDE thing ... it sucks ... but is easy-to-turn-off and to set recordings "manually".

That is the only flaw and not a really big one either since it can be turned off.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[trhouse]

For those who like the TV Guide, there is another issue. The code for the TVG is located in the hdd where it can be corrupted.

It can be restored via the procedure in this link,

http://www.pioneerfaq.info/english/dvr630.php?player=DVR-630H&question=replace_hdd

[slickster]

Thanks all, I've been looking a little into TiVo and it sounds like a great alternative.
I think I might pickup a dvd recorder anyway but this TiVo thing sounds great.
Again with the monthly fees.....holy!!!

Any know probelms with TiVo and should this be a new thread?
I did some digging last night and found that there is a lot of satisfied customers through Amazon.com.

[FulciLives]

Thanks all, I've been looking a little into TiVo and it sounds like a great alternative.
I think I might pickup a dvd recorder anyway but this TiVo thing sounds great.
Again with the monthly fees.....holy!!!

Any know probelms with TiVo and should this be a new thread?
I did some digging last night and found that there is a lot of satisfied customers through Amazon.com.

Personally ... if your cable TV company offers it's own DVR then I would get that over TIVO.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[slickster]

FulciLives: I was thinking of that also. The only thing is the added feature of being able to wirelessly send a tv program from the TIVO DVR to your computer. My current cable company's PVR cannot do this. Along with some other cool features like being able to set your programming through the web if you forgot to set it at home.
I've also been reading that it seems that TIVO is a little difficult to setup for some people.

[FulciLives]

FulciLives: I was thinking of that also. The only thing is the added feature of being able to wirelessly send a tv program from the TIVO DVR to your computer. My current cable company's PVR cannot do this. Along with some other cool features like being able to set your programming through the web if you forgot to set it at home.
I've also been reading that it seems that TIVO is a little difficult to setup for some people.

I'm not 100% on this but I think TIVO will re-record EVERYTHING from the get go and I am not sure if you can record HDTV with a standard TIVO.

The cable box company's DVR can record digital channels 100% including HDTV as HDTV.

I've heard the TIVO computer transfer thing doesn't work that great and even when it does work ... you usually end up with a MPEG file that is not 100% DVD compliant meaning you either author it as is and hope it works with your now current and any future DVD players you may have ... or ... re-encode to make it DVD compliant.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[Seeker47]

Digital cables channels are not understood by DVD recorders. You must have two cable boxes in the same room, if you want to use anything other than the cable company PVR. Or only record/watch analog channels.

I choose to watch analog only on my split that goes to the tv. The other goes to a digital cable box, which then goes to the recorder s-video inputs, which is then fed to the tv component inputs. Unless I rent another cable box, there is no way to watch one channel, and record another, while using digital cable.

Welcome to the world of cable/satellite technology.

Hmmm, I must be having some basic brain fart or disconnect right now, in regard to what you just said, because all I get is digital cable. (There is an antenna on the roof, but the signal is terrible, so it must be rusted away by now.) The cable box feeds the Pioneers. (Or else I wouldn't be able to view Cinemax, or whatever). I record whatever I like, or timeshift. The recordings are definitely not HD, may not even be digital quality. But the storage to HDD or DVD is in a digital format. It looks pretty good to me. I can't ask for too much more than that.