Great feedback...now new PC!

[123fish123]

After all the great feedback from another post, you have all opened my mind (and wallet...thanks) to the thought of a new PC. Using a p4 1.6 with an original Radeon AIW card I think it's time and with tons of video and pix with three kids to edit, I am ready!

I am stuck on which platform/chip to build on. Big first question is AMD or Intel and dual core or not. What I do mainly is picture and video editing (Sony Vegas today for video and Nero as well) No gaming needs other than the occasional round of golf...Just want something that's going to be able to run the video editing software efficiently. Man my current one is quite a dog sometimes with big projects.

Anyone have any opinions on the "right" way to go? Cost is not much of a factor. I mean I don't need/want the board/chipset that came out last week but don't need to get a used p4 either. May build/may buy...not sure yet

[TBoneit]

Either Intel Core 2 Duo and a Motherboard with a Intel chipset or AMD 64 X2 dual core probably with a Nvidia chipset.

The faster the chip the shorter the processing time. Make sure mobo supports DDR2 memory and PCI Express 16x.

If you are planning on using your old IDE drives make sure the motherboard has enough IDE ports. Look for 4 memory slots dual channel mode. That way you can use the cheaper 533 to match a FSb of 1066. Good Quality case & Power supply as you'll need a 24pin atx connector and whether or not 4 pin or 8 pin depends on the Mobo design. Probably also 6 pin PCIe power connector in case you want a fancy video card later. Other decision point single video or dual video, SLI or ATI on intel.

Do your research.

[123fish123]

That's great stuff thanks! I'll be on wikipedia and tomshardware.com this weekend trying to further educate myself. I really want to build my own but am so worried about screwing up compatability.

[redwudz]

I would agree with TBoneit's suggestions, but I would opt for DDR2 800 memory, 1 to 2 GB, a matched set for dual channel operation. Most newer motherboards recommend it anyway. I use AMD CPUs, but either is fine. Definitely dual core.

My last computer I used a AMD AM2 4800+ CPU, 2GB DDR2 800 RAM, a Antec 1650B case, two 320GB Seagate SATA hard drives and a 500W Thermaltake power supply, along with a Thermaltake TMG CPU cooler. The whole setup is virtually silent.

I also made a guide for assembling a basic computer (Sorry, haven't updated it : https://forum.videohelp.com/topic315746.html

And since this thread is about computers, moving you to the Computer Forum.

[jagabo]

One thing you might consider is getting a Core 2 Duo E4300 and overclocking it from 1.8 to 2.4 GHz. That will give you close to E6600 speed (the same clocks speed but less L2 cache).

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115013

This is a simple overclock by changing the FSB speed from 800 MHz to the E6x00 series' 1066 MHz. This can leave the rest of the system running at stock speeds. Almost all E4300's will do this. Most will overclock significantly higher if you get more adventurous.

http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/intel/showdoc.aspx?i=2903

Pick the right motherboard and you'll be set for quad core in the future too.

[Bjs]

Your first consideration before you go hunting down the hardware , is to confirm the os choice you will be using first , and as a second suggestion , check up on sony's vegas for hardware / os specs , and possible upgrade specs as well .

Xp is pretty well drying up around the place , so vista may be the only option available .

Pretty well , almost all motherboards should come with onboard video as standard (a few dont) , which would ease the burden on the purse for the time being , generally , not by much , but I recommend you make an inclusion for supporting the latests graphics , either sli or pci-e

Its a bit like biulding a new pc now , but the end user wants win98se installed on it .

Last , do you consider the need to edit in hd-dvd at any point in the near future , if so , then P4 3gig + cpu (or amd equivelent)

----

screwing up compatability ?

They want you to forget that , but its so damn handy , isnt it .

[kush]

In the ~6 years since I've been building my own PC's, I've been exclusively AMD..But right now Intel's Core 2 (Duo/Quad) beat AMD hands down. AMD is now backed into the budget corner, and their K8L (including quad) for the consumer market won't be out until ~Christmas time - affordability likely not until quite a bit past that..

Bottom line, I'd go for a Core2/DDR2 system right now. They kick ass, and if you're into overclocking, they do that VERY nicely too (if you get quality components to back it up of course). Personally, if you MUST buy now, I'd get a cheap C2D now (e4300/4320(?)/e6300/e6320), and wait for the price drops on the Q6600 quads (due July 22nd says the rumor mill)... quad core 2.4 (that can easily do 3.0-3.2+) for ~$266 US. Otherwise, I'd just wait until the price drops come into effect. The new DDR3 chipsets and forthcoming CPUs to support them are a waste to get now - DDR3 will simply be too expensive (IMO) for the time being, and offer little > no advantage over a fast DDR2 system.

Quads may be next to useless @ the moment for gaming (not that that's your goal, esp posting here ), with the exception of Supreme Commander, but there's many games coming soon that WILL take advantage of it.. And with video/photo editing, many of the usual packages do take advantage of multiple cores/threads - ie: Vegas I think *does*, and photo tools like Adobe Photoshop scale well too... So going quad core is very much advisable in your situation.

[edit] PS, I wouldn't bother with Nero for *anything* other than straight burns. It's quality has gone downhill drastically since it started getting the Roxio effect. With the exception of Recode (Nero's commercial version of DVDShrink), there's little to praise in Nero now. Besides, there's tons of freeware burning, home theater, photo editing, etc apps out there whose quality beats Nero anyway.

Oh, and I'd go with 2x1GB for memory. 1GB really isn't enough these days, unless you run a cut down (killing running/startup processes) system..Especially not with Vista, even more so if any of the apps you'll be running scale well with available memory (like Photoshop).

As far as the acutal chipsets go, you have basically 2 choices, Intel (9x5; 965 seems to be the bang/buck chipset) and NVIDIA (600 series; 650i and 680i multiple flavors, 680 mainly for SLI applications). They all are pretty much the same performance wise these days..Only real differences being overclocking capabilities, onboard features, and of course price. Basically ALL have multple SATA ports (6+ depending on the chipset/motherboard maker), ONLY 1 IDE port (blame Intel - but there's finally a number SATA opticals out to get around that).. Varying levels of onboard RAID support (usual 0, 1, 5 or combos thereof). Lower end chipsets/boards usually have some features cut out (like 1 gigabit net connection vs 2 in the case of 650i vs 680i)

I would NOT go with a built in graphics motherboard though, even if you're not concerned w/ gaming performance - I just don't like the fact that it will sap precious CPU and memory resources in the process..You can get away with a cheap discrete PCIe card (I'd say NV 8500 or maybe DAAMIT's r600 based budget cards if they turn out nice [already announced, coming mid summer I think]).

Last, DON'T skimp on your PSU. They're not the cheapest around, but one of the best right now is the Corsair HX series (~$100 for the 520w model). Made by one of the best OEM's around right now (Seasonic), 5 year warranty, and a TRUE wattage rating (that can even handle a quad core/8800 GTS SLI system) - not like the 350w units posing as 500w from the likes of Deer/L&C/etc/etc/etc.

[123fish123]

You folks are GREAT! I have printed all your posts so I can translate using some sites (some terminology is still a llittle foreign to me but for the most part...I get it).

One basic question about the dual core. I had heard unless your software is multi-threaded, it isn't going to take advantage of the dual core chip. Anyone know if Vegas Movie Studio 6.0 and Nero Burning Rom 6 SE (the two programs I seem to be using most for video and DVD burning) can take advantage? I know the VISTA OS system can but if I am not multitasking, will I not be taking full advantage of a dual core chip with this software?

[kush]

I'm almost certain Sony's Vegas DOES, not sure on Nero - not v6, maybe the later v7 versions do..But I don't use Vegas, and I haven't paid attention to Nero since the early v7's (they're soon to hit v8 I think though). Oh, and yes it (your given app) will need to be multi-threaded to take proper advantage of dual/quad core. But again there's tons of apps out that DO, with more and more going to in the near future...And of course multi-core does help with multi-tasking outside of the acutal app performance, ie: you can burn discs, surf the web, play your golf game, whatever, more easily while encoding in Vegas.

[edit] And agree w/ below - hence the suggestion for an ATI r600 based card of NV G80 based 8x00. The neat thing of the high end ATI card (x2900xt; being the power hog that it is, although low end cards ARE NOT hogs) is that it has built in HDMI/HDCP functions - they even are including a DVI -> HDMI dongle in the package.. It's up to the card makers to include the HDMI/HDCP/audio functions on the lower end cards though (ie: may not happen esp on the ultra low cards).

[edit again] Yes Vegas DOES take advantage of multiple cores -

Multiprocessor Support
Vegas Movie Studio 6 software takes advantage of cutting-edge parallel processing architectures, significantly reducing complex project-render times on multiprocessor, HT, and multicore systems.

and DVDShrink takes advantage of multiple cores too, so Nero's Recode should - not sure of the other bundles apps though.

And IMHO, overclocking is NOT that hard. You just need to educate yourself beforehand (ie check enthusianst sites/message boards to see what actual parts people use, and what they get for final overclocks), buy the proper components, ie: ECS motherboards are not known for their overclocking prowess... Pay particular attention to the quality of your PSU that I mentioned previously (overclocking or not really)..And one of the most important when doing so, make sure you have plenty of case and CPU cooling..For example don't expect to go far with the default Intel retail cooler and a small HTPC case. Go for a nice aftermarket heatsink and a roomy case with 120mm fans for airflow - you can have cooler components while still keeping pretty quiet [no need for the 'Tornado' fans these days ].

Enough BS, my caffeine fix is wearing off, time to go back to work.

[cap357]

Also you should also get a video card that supports directx 10 and hdcp that's the next new hardware coming out right now also if you decide to watch hd on the pc in the future with an hd tuner

[123fish123]

One thing you might consider is getting a Core 2 Duo E4300 and overclocking it from 1.8 to 2.4 GHz. That will give you close to E6600 speed (the same clocks speed but less L2 cache).

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115013

This is a simple overclock by changing the FSB speed from 800 MHz to the E6x00 series' 1066 MHz. This can leave the rest of the system running at stock speeds. Almost all E4300's will do this. Most will overclock significantly higher if you get more adventurous.

http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/intel/showdoc.aspx?i=2903

Pick the right motherboard and you'll be set for quad core in the future too.

Thanks! I never considered overclocking because I am not into gaming but if it will help with things like video capture and file conversions I'll have to read up on how to do it. Is it hard, In your Opinion?

[TBoneit]

Just to note video capture and burning won't be helped or hindered by Overclocking. Unless by Nero you mean the s/w that it has that can take an avi and turn it into a DVD and burn it.

But that isn't really burning. Burning means for example taking a Already authored DVD and burning it to the DVD at for example 15 Minutes for a 4 x burn. To many call what they are doing with Nero burning when what they are really doing is encoding, authoring and then burning. Not the best solution as there is no real control over the encoding vs a real encoder.

[redwudz]

If you are planning to OC and you are just setting the FSB (Front Side Bus) setting, it only takes a few seconds on the BIOS settings page. And OCing is a good reason to get DDR2 800 RAM. Even if you don't OC, it has the capability.

Dual core, if for no other reason is worthwhile for multitasking. Being able to encode or do other tasks without slowing down the process that much is very nice. And if you have dual core aware programs, even better.

[cap357]

Read the product reviews on newegg also my other advice would be to steer away from the Via chipset board's it took me awhile to get the hang of building my first computer but it allways will start with the motherboard msi is a good one so is asrock plus you should consider how much memory you want to use windows vista is a system hog versus XP and from what I heard from my brother that work's at best buy it's still has it's qwerks if you go to newegg just click on motherboards and click on intel then chose the cpu board you want read the reviews on each board that usally is the way to go then click on the manufacture product info
some have a pdf manual that you can read this help's on deciding what power supply you need plus what kind of memory and what video card the board suppport's also make sure the hardware you get will support vista if you decide to use it in the future

[edDV]

Thanks! I never considered overclocking because I am not into gaming but if it will help with things like video capture and file conversions I'll have to read up on how to do it. Is it hard, In your Opinion?

For what you are doing, overclocking is optional. You will see a huge performance step up from a 1.6 P4 to a 1.8 Core2 Duo without overclocking. You will be amazed.

After about 6mo. at that performance you will get used to it and may seek more. Turns out it is much easier to upclock from the E4300 800Mhz FSB than from the E630x with 1066MHz FSB so long as the motherboard and memory support both speeds.

I suggest you do this in two phases. Make sure the motherboard and memory you buy will support a 1066MHz FSB.

Processor speed mainly affects encoding. The stock E4300 without overclocking should handle software capture to MPeg2 so long as the encoder is dual processor capable. I don't think Nero is.

[cap357]

Try here on newegg these boards support both dual and quad this would be the way to go
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=2010200280+1070625638&name...uo+%2f+Pentium

[MJA]

all Intel products are overpriced ,even the motherboards.

SUPPORT THE UNDERDOG. GO AMD

[ranchhand]

Pretty hard to beat the price per performance on these:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103759

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103771 (O/clock up to 3GHz)

[jagabo]

The problem, for AMD, is that the top end of the A64X2 line competes with the bottom end of C2D line. Where they overlap performance/price is roughly equivalent.

[edDV]

Intel is very price aggressive these days. AMD is on the ropes and can only go down market to mobile and laptops at this point. Don't count them out. They forced Intel to get their act together, now it's their turn. Aren't you glad this isn't all depending on a government department of micro computers?

[TBoneit]

I have to agree when I did my AMD 64 X2 4200 it was much cheaper and cooler running than the Intel dual cores. Now that has reversed. The Core 2 Duo is cool running and it can outperform the AMD.

Supporting the underdog is all well and good but when it costs more. I'm sure AMD will come out with a leapfrog product but right now Itel has leapfrogged them.

[lordsmurf]

Intel CPU
Intel or Asus non-VIA motherboard
XP, not Vista
1GB RAM minimum
two hard drives, at least 80GB on main, 200GB on second

[TBoneit]

Good suggestions lordsmurf. One caveat an Asus with a Intel chipset. Asus does use other chips for socket 775. The only reason to go Nvidia chipset would be if you have to have SLI for gaming and that is important.

Get your XP while you can I suspect it will start drying up sooner rather than later.

[123fish123]

OK...have spent a ton of time online this holiday weekend and back with more specifics. Have the motherboards down to some MSI and ASUS models and am definitely going with an Intel Chip. From a motherboard perspective however, the ones I am looking at are all very similar with the exception of the chipset (limited it to p965, q965, 975x and nvidia nforce 650i). SLI is of no interest to me since I will not be gaming. I was leaning towards the 975x since that seemed to be more future-proof but any words of advice would be GREATLY appreciated.

P.S. Should I REALLY get a copy of XP? Is VISTA that bad?

[budz]

Stick to XP pro instead of VISTA since there lots of bugs in it yet. If you're going to overclock then get a mobo that uses the intel 965 or 975 chipsets. Take a look at Gigabyte mobos as well. Here's one:

GIGABYTE GA-965P-DS3 (rev. 1.3), $94.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128042

Get a good aftermarket Heatsink fan as well for the core2duo processor if you're going to overclock. Here's a few to consider:

ARTIC COOLING FREEZER 7 PRO, $34.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835186134

COOLERMASTER RR-LCH-P9E1 92mm UFO CPU Cooler, $34.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835103001
I use this cpu cooler with my core3duo E6400. It keeps it cool only going up to 28c when doing video encoding.

ZALMAN CNPS7700-CU, $39.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835118115

ZALMAN CNPS 9700 NT, $69.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835118020

Get a good computer case as well. Here are a few:

COOLER MASTER RC-330-KKN1-GP Black, $39.99 w/out power supply
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811119115
I use that case for my core2duo computer. Airflow is great within case and you can install a 120mm case fan in the front as well.

COOLER MASTER Centurion 5 CAC-T05-UW, $49.99 w/out power supply
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811119068

Get a good power supply from ANTEC or ENERMAX preferably one that has modular cabling so wire management is not so messy.

[123fish123]

Stick to XP pro

Thanks Budz!!!!!

[AlecWest]

Hmmm ... must be "get a new system" season, hehe. Here's mine. The monitor is already on the way, the "box" will come later:

https://forum.videohelp.com/topic328586-60.html#1708952

And yes, the motherboard has enough slots for 2 hard drives and 2 DVD burners.

P.S. The monitor comes with 1 yr. warranty plus 3 yr. extended warranty after the first year expires ... and the computer comes with a "standard" 3 yr. warranty.