pc based dvr surveillence setup

[Solarflair]

I was wondering if there are people with much expertise in this area on this forum. Trying to setup a camera system in our liquor store, due to recent increase in theft.

Ive decided on getting a Geovision gv-800 16channel, 120fps dvr card. But as far as cameras i am not sure which way to go. I dont want to overbuy or underbuy. If anyone knows any decent cameras, cost is somewhat of an issue. Some of the things that might be important:

- audio not necessary. b/c during break in, alarm is on anyways, and during hours, radio is on.
- color is must
- only indoor
- looking for 1-2 out of 4-5 cams with nightvision / infared,
- capable of 640x480 maximum referred, will settle w/ 352x240
- bullet or dome, or mix it up? not sure which would be better for a liquor store.

[Nelson37]

BW cameras are typically higher resolution and cheaper.

See if your card or cameras support Power over Ethernet, cable runs for both power and video can be a bitch.

The Window Vision software seems to work well. Remote monitoring over Internet works pretty good, too.

Very few if any cameras have audio.

Go higher res and sacrifice framerate.

Mounts and covers will cost almost as much as the cameras. You did not mention any PTZ controls. Low-light as opposed to infrared or night vision is available. Remember, this is for face recognition. If you can't identify a suspect, the video is nearly worthless.

If you live in Southwest Florida, There is a guy you need to avoid. Name will remind you of Pearl Harbor.

[Solarflair]

ive just started learning stuff in this area about a week or so ago. i still do not know what PTZ control is.

Yeah face recognition is good. another thing i want to be able to do is, when a suspected person leaves, i want to go back and see if they stolen things. So in that sense framerate is still somewhat important too.

I am getting this card bc its about a 700ish dollar card that ill be getting brand new for roughly $300. If anyone else has anything to add whatsoever, your comments are encouraged.

[Nelson37]

Pan, Tilt, and Zoom. Generally requires extra cabling, motorized mount. Camera does a "tour" of the store.

[redwudz]

PTZ= Pan Tilt Zoom. Usually a camera controlled remotely by a joystick in the monitoring area.

Take a look at this company. I use their cameras for surveillance. B+W is best for low light, but some of the newer color cameras do fairly well in low light. Florescent or mercury vapor light doesn't have much energy in the infrared spectrum and that's what video cameras need. I use a quartz halogen if I really need light, especially for a outdoor, parking lot camera.

http://www.supercircuits.com/

[Solarflair]

the ptz just sounds expensive. plus we dont have the extra person to just sit and monitor. the major concerns were the blind spots that are not visable from the front counter.

I will definitely look into the black/white cams. maybe i might mix it up and get a few color and few bw.

What do you guys think as far as bullet vs dome? ive thought of different scenarios. With bullets they know they are being watched but then they can also try to find ways out of cam's view. With domes, they know they could be recorded but not definitely, and possibly think its a fakie even. Do you think the bullet's intimidation factor would fair better?

[redwudz]

I would set up a rather obvious camera in at least two locations, behind the register and at the exit. Those will be your primary ID cameras and most anyone will notice them and think twice about getting ID'd if they are doing something they shouldn't. If you have a row of coolers, one camera may be able to cover them from one end.

If your main concern is shoplifting, a few dome cameras may help, and scatter in a few fakes if wanted. Usually for shoplifting you will still depend on your exit camera or similar for the best face pictures. Most of the time it's petty theft and a PITA to prosecute. Banning them from the premises is more common. Not that important to catch them in the act if you don't want to prosecute. You could also set up a small monitor behind the counter so your register people will be able to watch a 'hot' area without someone having to monitor your video setup from the back room full time.

I would set up a B+W camera or two for the parking area also. There is sometimes more crime and drug dealing illegal activities there that attract the wrong kind of people to the store area.

Being friendly to the local police is also a very good idea. As long as the neighborhood isn't a 'war zone', you should be able to discourage most problems, hopefully without needing the video evidence most of the time.

[Solarflair]

as for monitors. ill have a huge crt above our ice box. which is viewable from one side of behind the counter. we have two pos stations, and was planning to have the secondary station monitor it thru a network, and the big crt will be more to be seen by everyone, and the other for cashiers.

The store is actually in an upscale above middle class area. So i dont think outside cams are needed. but there are still some shady stuff going on though. Last summer we had a big problem with people consuming soda and singles and ditching the cans inside the cooler.

[Nelson37]

The PTZ "tour" is completely automated, 2 seconds left side, 4 seconds center high, 2 seconds right side low, etc. Yes it is more expensive but then a single camera can cover the same area as several fixed cameras. No human intervention required, other than design the original tour.

Most softwares can also modify the tour based on motion, min-max times can be set, etc.

Years ago we completely ended a minor theft problem with a $20.00 fake camera that was just an empty plastic box.

As for the mounts, it somewhat depends on the Public Display of the camera output. The dome mount essentially conceals camera motion, anyone watching the output display can fairly quickly determine whether the cameras actually move or not.

Most common usage of such systems is to have a camera pointed directly at the cash drawer from the employee side. That adds a few aspects to camera and monitor placement.

Password and data security takes on some added importance with such systems. Also surge protection and battery backups.

[mikel]

a thought...

Maybe save the color camera to cover the front door.
Once a theft has been verified with the higher rez b/w cameras...you can
give a better clothing description to the cops.

[Solarflair]

about camera powersupplies..

most i look at dont come with power supplies. now for about 4-5 cameras what power supply should i be using? a simple adapter type like with most small electronics? Ive seen a few that looks like its the size of fusebox. are those better for any reason?

[Marvingj]

Why don't you try Hidden Spy Cameras, they are better....here is a example

[Marvingj]

This industrial style wall clock is being used by security departments in major airports, hospitals, nursing homes, schools, municipal agencies, and publicly traded companies.

The first thing you should know about ANY wall clock covert camera is that it requires some type of power source. This model comes with an internal 2.4GHz transmitter that will send wireless video to the included receiver. Simply attach the receiver to your VCR and begin recording.

"Wireless" does not mean "cordless".

You must attach a power cable to the clock. Most people choose to drill a tiny hole in a wall just behind the clock and "fish" the cable through the opposite side to a closet where you can plug it into an electrical outlet. You may also hide the wire underneath the edge of your carpet and run it to the nearest outlet if drilling a hole in your wall won't work.

[Solarflair]

the thing about hidden only is the thieves would still feel just as confident. We want to make them feel more skeptical about it. some of the suspects are actual regulars believe it or not. there just hasnt been any evidence to enforce anything.

maybe one or two hiddens might be good.

[ZAPPER]

Liquor store eh? The better the economy the better the business and the worse the economy gets, the better the business gets!

Even with so called pro help and design, only you will be able to determine what is working best for your location. I don't know jack about the industry (security or booze) but I would think that highly visable cams would help be a deterent, including a monitor that customers can see. A random display on that monitor from different cams will help to give the illusion of more cams maybe and the PTZ effect combined with random screen shots will be even more intimidating.

Install some posters saying "Smile you are on camera" or custom make one that says that the cams are "monitored and recorded off site by Professional security services and police agencies"

Crime prevention is way more effiecent than prosicution.

Lighting will be important, be prepared to add some incadesents to help the cams out. I would guess floods instead of spots and track lights are cheap and flexible.

I have worked in construction for over twenty years and would be more afraid to work in a liquor store than walk iron in the rain. Keep the bad guys at bay, let them see that you are on your toes!

[soldier501]

Solarflair
Just read your post, several replies hit on a key topic, prevention is better than prosecution. Ex-Retired Cop here. Make your store inviting to good customers, and a hassel to thievs. Use displays to block easy exits, set up a camera to play back realtime video on a tv that can be seen from customer point of view. Make sure it is in area of highest thefts so bad guys can see them self. Then use smaller cameras around store with switching hardware/software, and have an interval of a few seconds so most if not all of the store is seen on tv.
Also a small heavy mirror with frame around it on a blank wall (so in loks like a window not picture) looking down isle/s will maybe detere people if they think they are being watched.
The more creative you are the more the bad guys steal from other stores that are not.
Also I do not kow if X-10 company is still in business but they had great products great software and good price.
Nothing is 100% but I hope these tips help. Most Police departments will come to your business and look over your store and offer ideas for free.
Good Luck

[redwudz]

So i don't think outside cams are needed.

Maybe not, but I would keep it open as a option. You can use inexpensive B+W cameras for outside. A low light, wide angle, high res B+W camera can get great quality in a semi-dark parking lot.

If you do have a robbery, it's really nice to have footage of the perpetrator getting into a vehicle that you may be able to ID and not put yourself in any more risk in the process. And if you do see something like regular drug deals or other illegal activities, it can help put a stop to it early on.

And as mentioned earlier, the local PD can give you good advice on security setups and should be very familiar with the local problems that you should be aware of. Prevention is the keyword.

[Cornucopia]

You also have to choose about switcher type: Quad (or more)Split or TimeSliceInterleave.
Personally, I think you can get better stills and recognition with the latter, unless you specifically need to get every fraction of a second recorded.

Fake RedHerring-cam is good to have too. Baddies may trash it, but if they think they've done their job, they'll ignore the others (and get caught). I've worked on a couple of these prosecutions!

Once again, for recognition, better quality cams will help out in the long run (assuming you will some day have need for the cams).

'Course, for prevention, you could always get a DOG. They're very good deterrents and good pals!

Scott