DRM's Demise Accelerates

[Teutatis]

DRM's Demise Accelerates

Steve Jobs wasn't kidding when he wrote that "Thoughts on Music" essay back in February that condemned the use of "digital rights management" technology in music sales--the iTunes Store will feature DRM-free downloads by the end of this month. Similarly, EMI wasn't fooling around when it joined Apple in this new initiative; yesterday, that record label said it would also offer its catalogue in "unprotected" form on Amazon's upcoming MP3-only store, as well as a variety of European music-download sites.


http://blog.washingtonpost.com/fasterforward/2007/05/drms_demise_accelerates.html

[MOVIEGEEK]

It's about time!
I also hope they do away with subscriptions(or give us a choice) and allow people to buy individual tracks like www.buy.com does because some months I buy one song and other months I might buy twenty.

[DereX888]

Well, I predict it'll be a landslide of sites getting rid of DRMs this summer, including the 'big players' (amazon and such).
Unfortunately too little and too late (at least 7 years too late LOL).
There are already 2nd generations of kids coming out of high schools who never paid a penny for a song, and they will not do it now.
To find "illegal" and clean of any DRM-infections music in the most popular MP3 format is as easy as typing a song and artist in google and downloading it. About FIVE minutes of work at most. To find "illegal" and clean of any DRM-infection movies in the most popular xvid format, at often *better quality* than the ones sold on i.e. amazon, it takes maybe 2 hours at most (OK, lets say it takes whole night because kid have slow connection - but then it'd take him few hours to download from amazon as well).
Which kid (the most sought-after movies and music consumer) is going to waste his/her time to register on any website, then use his/her credit card (assuming he/she already have one) to buy selected song, and then download it - DRM-infected or DRM-free doesn't matter - if he/she can do it quickly without registartions and payments...
TOO LITTLE TOO LATE (I know, I've said that many times).
Genie is out of the bottle.
They can sue and prosecute every tenmillionth "illegal downloader" as RIAA does (or maybe it is every 100 millionth LOL), but it won't scare away the other millions of downloaders at all. As someone calculated on the web - as an american you have 50 times more chances winning grand prize in lottery and 100 times more chances to be struck by lightning (or was it the opposite, I don't remember) than being "caught illegal downloading" by RIAA And what about the rest of the world? Americans are no longer 50% of the 'netizens' (web citizens) as it was few years ago...

PS: Of course I don't pity RIAA nor MPAA members at all
They made huge business mistake when they joined (few years too late) online entertainment distribution with DRM-infected files, incompatible formats, etc etc, and now they 'pay' for the mistakes.
If I had a business and I have made a substantial business mistake leading to its demise, would I get FBI's or government protection so I won't go bancrupt? Not a chance Why RIAA/MPAA members are given such help at the whole society's expense?
Its time american taxpayers said STOP to the artificial life support that is being pumped to RIAA and MPAA from the governments they elected
Otherwise keeping DRM-infections or getting rid of DRMs won't change a thing... Nada. Zilch.

[thecoalman]

If I had a business and I have made a substantial business mistake leading to its demise, would I get FBI's or government protection so I won't go bancrupt?

What does a business mistake have to do with enforcing laws? If you owned a business and someone was stealing your product I would assume you would expect law enforcement to do what they could to prevent it. Or would you not care if someone was stealing from you?

[DereX888]

If I had a business and I have made a substantial business mistake leading to its demise, would I get FBI's or government protection so I won't go bancrupt?

What does a business mistake have to do with enforcing laws? If you owned a business and someone was stealing your product I would assume you would expect law enforcement to do what they could to prevent it. Or would you not care if someone was stealing from you?

If someone steals from you can you get FBI support?
If you make and release a movie or album and they pirate it in Asia and sell 'in the open' on the web - will you get ANY help from your law enforcement?
If you think you will, you are dreaming
You'd have to join a cartel (a legalized mafia-style organisation such as RIAA or MPAA) to get such help - and even then I doubt it if youre not some big key player in the area...

[painkiller]

Stealing is in the eye of the beholden legal authority.
Only if they determine it worth their time and effort.

I live near the East Coast.
Years ago one of credit cards was hit with two annual software mag (w/disks) renewals, about $200 each, within months.

Tracked it to San Francisco.

Called the State Atty's offices there.

They said there was nothing they could, or would, do.

So I guess interstate wire fraud isn't so illegal after all.

[DereX888]

Stealing is in the eye of the beholden legal authority.
Only if they determine it worth their time and effort.

I live near the East Coast.
Years ago one of credit cards was hit with two annual software mag (w/disks) renewals, about $200 each, within months.

Tracked it to San Francisco.

Called the State Atty's offices there.

They said there was nothing they could, or would, do.

So I guess interstate wire fraud isn't so illegal after all.

You're not RIAA or MPAA member - your tax monies are spent on help for cartels only, citizens can go f* themselves...
Welcome to America in 21st century
From all the american liberties only one still stands:
The right to pay taxes

[Nilfennasion]

Its time american taxpayers said STOP to the artificial life support that is being pumped to RIAA and MPAA from the governments they elected

You mean to tell me that the US government gives two damns about the taxpayers now that they have effectively taken away the ability of the taxpayers to protest in a meaningful manner?

Why do I sense a resurgence of the cash economy looming on the horizon?

[thecoalman]

If someone steals from you can you get FBI support?

If it was a federal crime that's falls within their jurisdiction such as the mass production of pirated videos that were being shipped all over the country then yes. The FBI for the most part deals with crimes that are on a large scale or crime that crosses state boundaries. Law enforcement in the US is broken into many levels, you would report the theft to the appropiate agency, local, regional, state or whoever it may be. State and Federal laws overlap so you could in fact get help from many places depending on the nature, location and type of crime. That's beside any civil actions you can take.

[DereX888]

If someone steals from you can you get FBI support?

If it was a federal crime that's falls within their jurisdiction such as the mass production of pirated videos that were being shipped all over the country then yes. The FBI for the most part deals with crimes that are on a large scale or crime that crosses state boundaries. Law enforcement in the US is broken into many levels, you would report the theft to the appropiate agency, local, regional, state or whoever it may be. State and Federal laws overlap so you could in fact get help from many places depending on the nature, location and type of crime. That's beside any civil actions you can take.

Keep on dreaming...

Have you read just this example from our forum's colleague?

I live near the East Coast.
Years ago one of credit cards was hit with two annual software mag (w/disks) renewals, about $200 each, within months.
Tracked it to San Francisco.
Called the State Atty's offices there.
They said there was nothing they could, or would, do.

$200 worth of stolen value from citizen is not enough to take any actions.
But $10 CD stolen value from an RIAA member is more than enough to find, sue and prosecute a kid who didn't even stole it (he pick it up from web, the person who copied the CD and put in on the web is obviously the actual thief), and no matter how far away state the kid reside in...
The only difference between both crimes? Even though his loss is 20fold higher, painkiller is unfortunately not a RIAA cartel member, thats the difference.
Keep on dreaming. Hopefully you never have to experience such difference at your own expense

do I sense a resurgence of the cash economy looming on the horizon?

Doubtful, unfortunately.
No one wants to use cash. Joe Sixpack wants to buy all the junk he don't even need. Companies dont want him to come with cash to their stores either, because he'll calculate and meditate and simply *think* much more about the product than when he use plastic (its been proven ages ago, average person making purchases on cash-only basis buys 35% less than the same person using plastic).
If people were using cash mostly, the economy would probly grind to halt

I bet very soon the society will be brainwashed with such phrases as "Only terrorists use cash" etc

[thecoalman]

Keep on dreaming...

Have you read just this example from our forum's colleague?

I live near the East Coast.
Years ago one of credit cards was hit with two annual software mag (w/disks) renewals, about $200 each, within months.
Tracked it to San Francisco.
Called the State Atty's offices there.
They said there was nothing they could, or would, do.

$200 worth of stolen value from citizen is not enough to take any actions.

Unfortunately law enforcment doesn't have the resources to prosecute each and every incident and without more details that may not even be a criminal act. It may have just been a mistake. One thing to point out is the OP didn't state if he's actually out $200, or if the comapny refunded his money. It can also be disputed through the credit card company and if all else fails he could file a civil action himself. Law enforcement in a case like that would step in when they see a pattern develop, they get a few complaints about the same company and action will follow. Happens quite often where I live, usually companies that take payments in advance, get in over their heads and can't deliver on the goods.

But $10 CD stolen value from an RIAA member is more than enough to find, sue and prosecute a kid who didn't even stole it

Example of a kid who downloaded $10 or even $200 worth of copyrighted material and was was prosecuted by the US federal Government for doing so?

Don't waste your time looking for one... they too busy keeping their eyes on you.

[painkiller]

It wasn't a mistake.

I contested the charges with the credit card company. Didn't work.

Contacted State Atty's in Calif and Maryland.

No one was willing to work the problem.

I was taken for the money.

As well as the belief in the system.

Interstate wire fraud, identity theft, false reporting, in the 1980's?

That magazine went bankrupt and took subscribers for all they were worth.
I somehow doubt I was the only one.

Especially when the only call back from San Francisco said they went to the magazine's address and said no one was there.

Some legal system we have here.

[DereX888]

Don't waste your time looking for one... they too busy keeping their eyes on you.

I have their micro spycam deep in my a*hole already for long time... and they still can't find a sh*t

[adam]

$200 worth of stolen value from citizen is not enough to take any actions.
But $10 CD stolen value from an RIAA member is more than enough to find, sue and prosecute a kid who didn't even stole it

This makes no sense. The FBI has absolutely nothing to do with suits against music filesharers. Those are civil suits filed by a private entity, the RIAA. If someone stole $200 from you, you could certainly file a civil suit of your own as well. You could also have criminal charges pressed, which is more than you could even do against the filesharer. Downloading a song illegally is certainly a copyright infringement, but it is rarely a crime.

The FBI has no place in this discussion. The only involvement they have in the copyright arena is in busting major bootleg operations for CRIMINAL activity. The same goes for non-copyright related crimes. The FBI mainly deals in organized crime, and any kind of Federal theft charge is going to require a certain $ amount stolen in the law itself, and it is going to be a heck of alot more than $200. It sucks when you are the victim but you have to understand this. All agencies big and small operate on a fixed budget and they simply have to pick their battles and so the respective laws that they prosecute reflect this. You don't spend $50,000 investigating and prosecuting someone to get them to pay back $200.

Copyright infringement primarily carries civil liability only, and it of course deals exclusively with Federal law. Comparing it to theft is comparing apples to oranges because that would be handled through criminal law and at the state level.

[DereX888]

$200 worth of stolen value from citizen is not enough to take any actions.
But $10 CD stolen value from an RIAA member is more than enough to find, sue and prosecute a kid who didn't even stole it

This makes no sense. The FBI has absolutely nothing to do with suits against music filesharers. Those are civil suits filed by a private entity, the RIAA. If someone stole $200 from you, you could certainly file a civil suit of your own as well. You could also have criminal charges pressed, which is more than you could even do against the filesharer. Downloading a song illegally is certainly a copyright infringement, but it is rarely a crime.

The FBI has no place in this discussion. The only involvement they have in the copyright arena is in busting major bootleg operations for CRIMINAL activity. The same goes for non-copyright related crimes. The FBI mainly deals in organized crime, and any kind of Federal theft charge is going to require a certain $ amount stolen in the law itself, and it is going to be a heck of alot more than $200. It sucks when you are the victim but you have to understand this. All agencies big and small operate on a fixed budget and they simply have to pick their battles and so the respective laws that they prosecute reflect this. You don't spend $50,000 investigating and prosecuting someone to get them to pay back $200.

Copyright infringement primarily carries civil liability only, and it of course deals exclusively with Federal law. Comparing it to theft is comparing apples to oranges because that would be handled through criminal law and at the state level.

I wondered where are you, our The Only Good Lawyer (All Other US Lawyers Ought To Hang On A Nearest Tree © DereX888)
Yes, I saw the stupidity of using FBI to chase the $200 thieves, don't worry.
However it is undoubtedly FBI's resources (that equals your tax monies) that are being used to help protect the properties of RIAA or MPAA members, and it is done more than often. Ever read MPAA's notes? (some were even published on their site) While I can't really find any RIAA<>FBI connection from my memory (Im too lazy to dig google now) I am very sure it is there too.
The point is, that not even a cop is being dispatched to do a simple routine investigation if your private citizen's complaint about theft is some "funny" amount (less than few thousand dollars I believe), while millions of dollars of taxpayers money are spent on protection of 'property' of a cartel-alike organisations like MPAA.

[gll99]

Please forgive the place holder. My original comments would have been completely OT

[adam]

The point is, that not even a cop is being dispatched to do a simple routine investigation if your private citizen's complaint about theft is some "funny" amount (less than few thousand dollars I believe), while millions of dollars of taxpayers money are spent on protection of 'property' of a cartel-alike organisations like MPAA.

I disagree with that point.

The percentage of the FBI's budget dedicated to fighting intellectual property crimes is positively minute. The vast majority of FBI funding goes towards "combating terrorism; preventing the acquisition of weapons of mass destruction; defeating foreign intelligence operations; reducing child exploitation and violent crimes; and strengthening infrastructure and information technology.(doesn't include copyright infringement)" The whole media campaign against copyright infringers is propogated and paid for by the industries themselves and done through civil not criminal proceedings. There is no doubt that the Federal Govt. allocates certain resources to combatting copyright infringement...and occasionally they do make a point to make an example out of a little guy. But the numbers you suggest are really exaggerated and if you look at individual FBI cases I think most are clearly justified since they bust large scale commercial operations.

More importantly, I do not see this disproportionate agenda that you suggest exists, where there's no remedy for victims of petty crimes yet big media businesses have govt. paid enforcers. As stated above, the media companies primarily enforce their own property rights through infringement suits. And on the contrary, county authorities will absolutely investigate and arrest and prosecute crimes involving small amounts of money. A class B misdemeanor of theft or mischief typically only requires $50 in loss. If its by check than its $20. If its less than it can still be prosecuted as a Class C ticket. That is specifically what the misdemeanor section of a DA's office is for. I work in misdemeanors. Anyone can come to our office and file a citizen's complaint and if we believe it is credible than we will file the information and either issue the warrant for arrest or file it at large (just get a notice to come to court) that day. Our police agencies all do the same if we'll accept the charges. As an example, out of my 650 or so pending cases I'd say I've got about 50 cases involving a person's CDs or DVDs being stolen (~$50 worth.)

And of course anyone can always file a civil suit for theft of any amount of money. Again, the RIAA/MPAA filesharing suits are simply civil suits. There is no law enforcement involved and there are no taxpayer dollars being spent. Civil suits are wholly funded by the parties in the suit.

[redwudz]

This thread doesn't seem to relate to 'Latest Video News' at present. Moving to OT.

[yoda313]

Why do they go to MP3? Isn't that considered an inferior quality format these days? Sure its the most comptabile but isn't aac (itunes) or wma (zune/yahoo music/napster) better quality?

They can just as easily make an unencrypted pay version in the aac or wma format at the same quality without using mp3. Are these mp3's going to be 128kbps? If so thats not worth a buck a song even if you can do anything with it.

I'm very happy with the 192kbps wma's from yahoo music. The sound is very enjoyable and pretty deep for a digital download.

Now if they make it a 260 or 320 mp3 then maybe. But that will also increase the file size unneccesarily.

[DereX888]

Why do they go to MP3? Isn't that considered an inferior quality format these days? Sure its the most comptabile but isn't aac (itunes) or wma (zune/yahoo music/napster) better quality?

They can just as easily make an unencrypted pay version in the aac or wma format at the same quality without using mp3. Are these mp3's going to be 128kbps? If so thats not worth a buck a song even if you can do anything with it.

I'm very happy with the 192kbps wma's from yahoo music. The sound is very enjoyable and pretty deep for a digital download.

Now if they make it a 260 or 320 mp3 then maybe. But that will also increase the file size unneccesarily.

MP3 is the lowest common denominator for music, thats why MP3 (IMHO). Basically any player and device designed and made in past 5-6 years is "mp3 ready" (you can't say it about WMA or AAC since both are actually proprietary formats).
Sure I'd prefer pure WAVE rather than any compressed format, but still - I would NOT pay a buck for a song (even if its .wav) because it is simply economically inadequate if I can buy a hardcopy (CD with nice print and inserts etc) for about the same price. Thus I never bought any 'download' song and most likely I will never do (not to mention I won't ever pay for some crap like mp3 or aac - but one man's trash is another man's treasure, of course; after all there are people out there who *buy* so-called 'reality shows' on DVDs ).

[rotten apple]

That is specifically what the misdemeanor section of a DA's office is for. I work in misdemeanors. Anyone can come to our office and file a citizen's complaint and if we believe it is credible than we will file the information and either issue the warrant for arrest or file it at large (just get a notice to come to court) that day. Our police agencies all do the same if we'll accept the charges. As an example, out of my 650 or so pending cases I'd say I've got about 50 cases involving a person's CDs or DVDs being stolen (~$50 worth.)
.

Oh i see Adam, YOU WORK in the DA....PHEW!!.....for a minute there i thought you were sounding like a tinsy bit biased by the way you were inferring the US has some infinately superior unfeasibley smooooth working justice sytem which you demonstrate by BY NOT GIVING A T*SS ( OR any compassion... but thats not a suprise given your SIG. ) to the actual details of "Painkillers" plight THE FIRST TIME he wrote it. I mean its not the fault of the system because some jumped up little arrogant t*sspiece who's employed there is too callous to be bothered about the ramifications of his incompetance,is it????

Been around the world and found that only stupid people are breeding

OH! adam, you haven't been trying to breed again have you?.. JUST think ONE snip!!! AND AT LEAST ONE LESS chance for a HUMAN to sufferer such a ignoble,embarassing and inhumane condition as Pres.Bush ( perhaps you recognise the sydrome's by its common tittle "BABOON Brain"???

You are in breach of the forum rules and are being issued with a formal warning. Please refrain from overt political discussion. Do not abuse other members. Keep it civil thanks.
/ Moderator offline

[thecoalman]

Why do they go to MP3? Isn't that considered an inferior quality format these days?.

Most likely because it's the most supported format, quality wise WMA is superior for lower bitrates especially for really low bitrates 64kbps or less. 128kbps and above and the line gets thinner, at least that's what I have read. Personally I can't hear much difference doing a side by side once it gets above 128kbps but my hearing isn't the greatest either..

[adam]

for a minute there i thought you were sounding like a tinsy bit biased by the way you were inferring the US has some infinately superior unfeasibley smooooth working justice sytem which you demonstrate by BY NOT GIVING A T*SS to the actual details of "Painkillers" plight THE FIRST TIME he wrote it.

Your argument is that I lack compassion because I didn't respond to Painkiller's issue until after he posted about it twice? Did you consider that maybe I didn't even see this thread at all until after his second post? Whoever Painkiller dealt with at the federal level should have referred him to his local DA's office. They should have followed up and credit card fraud is a felony. The system isn't perfect but there is an order to it.

Been around the world and found that only stupid people are breeding

My sig is just a funny line from a Harvey Danger song. People shouldn't read any more into it than they should read into your username....right rotten apple?

[painkiller]

Actually, Adam, I am quite pleased to hear your thoughts on the subject.

Clearly, I didn't know a lot of the proper communications lines to really follow that incident through. I'm sure most have figured out that I basically gave up (because I didn't know who to talk to next).

That's all done with since it was so long ago. Even though I suppose most thought I hijacked this thread, for whatever it's worth, I thought it relevant at the time to share.... my headaches of that time.

I knew you were a "legal beagel" - Adam - but it's good to know you have considerable background.

[DereX888]

for a minute there i thought you were sounding like a tinsy bit biased by the way you were inferring the US has some infinately superior unfeasibley smooooth working justice sytem which you demonstrate by BY NOT GIVING A T*SS to the actual details of "Painkillers" plight THE FIRST TIME he wrote it.

Your argument is that I lack compassion because I didn't respond to Painkiller's issue until after he posted about it twice? Did you consider that maybe I didn't even see this thread at all until after his second post? Whoever Painkiller dealt with at the federal level should have referred him to his local DA's office. They should have followed up and credit card fraud is a felony. The system isn't perfect but there is an order to it.

IMHO 'the system' is completely broken...
(OTOH no 'system' is or ever will be perfect because people are not perfect, but thats for discussion not on this forum)

Been around the world and found that only stupid people are breeding

My sig is just a funny line from a Harvey Danger song. People shouldn't read any more into it than they should read into your username....right rotten apple?

Actually, your signature is right on the money.
I've been around the world and I couldn't agree more with your excerpt from the song

[Lucifers_Ghost]

Been around the world and found that only stupid people are breeding

And most of them are in my family lol