Film colorization how made ?

[arturjose]

Example:
http://www.cs.huji.ac.il/~yweiss/Colorization/

[lordsmurf]

I just wanted to say how nice it is to see somebody like the
President/COO of Legend Films, Inc., posting on a forum, and sharing some information.

Bravo.

[arturjose]

VIDEO
With Matlab:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z5r0SFbT8fc

[lordsmurf]

VIDEO
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z5r0SFbT8fc

This was vaporware from a few years ago.
Go search the forum, about 2005. There was a lot of negative information on it.

[Barry Sandrew]

Mister BARRY SANDREW, if you want propaganda and clients to your company, open you one Topic.
This Topis is to discuss how made colorization in Black an withe Movies

I certainly would not be looking for clients on this site However I'm always interested in intelligent discourse on colorization. Apparently arthurjose is not interested in a balanced or even an positive discourse on colorization.

[arturjose]

I did not learn so far a small technique about colorization
with your discourse, and i`am here to learn

[arturjose]

Mister Barry Sandrew
I`am 100% apologist to made all black and withe movie to colors
I`am 100% apologist do encode Mono to Dolby Digital 5.1
congratulations for the work in your company,
but i like learn
is not my job, is not my work, is my hobby
and my hobby is only for me, not for sale
if you want see, i only can made that:
The original:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ejn1Ijji51k

and the same but made for me

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tR8Ah07tohI

compared with your work this is one sh....
but i have learned alone
to made that i only use Tmpgenc plus,
if you have something, teach to me and to others users.
Jose Araujo

[guns1inger]

arturjose :

There are several photoshop plugins - recolour, blackmagic, coloraige - that do the same as the link you posted above. Still image processing, while complex, is simpler than colourising a video clip. With still images the colourising is applied based on tonal ranges withing areas define by edge detection routines. Nothing moves, so the processing is straight-forward once the colours and areas are defined.

With video it is much more complex Objects move, lighting, and therefore luminescence, changes. Objects pass in front of and behind other objects, they cast shadows. All of these changes must be accounted for. Edges don't only have to be detected, but also tracked.

It is very complex.

You could use the plugins I have listed above (and google will find then easily) to colour video, but you would have to work frame at a time.

Finally, if the results of this work were so simple to apply, why isn't this option in most NLEs, or widely available as a plugin ? Surely, if it can be easily applied to stills and video, as this page implies, then plugins for after effects would be easy to develop for those who have created photoshop versions.

If you seriously want to learn how it works, rather than just, as it appears now, be handed a working solution that requires little effort of your part, download the siggraph paper and matlab code from the website you linked to and start reading.

The fact that very few companies do colourisation, and those that do, like Legend Films, use proprietary software developed in-house over many years, is testament to just how complex and difficult it is to get right.

[arturjose]

Dear guns1inger
thanks.

[gll99]

My 2 cents:

Rather than seeing it as a distortion of the original producers, author, director or studio's work, any technique that results in a restored print should be applauded. The early attempts at colorizing were less than successful but at least they tried and we shouldn't compare those to more recent results. Lets face it, for all the so called purists arguments, nothing is ever destroyed in this process. The original is still as it was. If I understood the representative from Legend Films correctly they even provide an improved copy of the bw print along with the colorized one so that's a bonus. As a child, I seem to recall many colour posters when the movie itself was in bw. Why did the studios advertising department provide those if they shunned colour so much. I really question how many Studios/Producer/Directors would have chosen bw if costs and the availability of the colour equipment were not a factor.

There may be little advantage in colouring certain works ie... genre noir with often foggy or dark exteriors and dimly lit interiors where male actors often wore grey, white of black dinner jackets though much of the film. These were essentially filmed that way by making use shadows, fog etc... for dramatic effect when they were often done with very limited budgets and time constraints. In most cases, it was more a matter of the director working to best advantage within the limitations imposed by the financial backers rather than a choice to film in bw. It is doubtful that much would be gained in colorizing most of those. Excellent choices for conversion would be comedies, musicals and other broad scope movies where vibrant colours would bring life to the picture. Especially suitable are those where scenery and costumes make it obvious that they would have been filmed in colour without technological or budgetary constraints.

[Nelson37]

The same kind of "purists" used to argue about how the horse was better, and how men should not fly because we do not have wings.

Whether a film is "better" in BW or color is debatable. Many have talked about the "original vision" of the creator. Few are backing Harryhousen's "original vision". How much of this BW hysteria is another form of "it was better in my day"?

I look at it this way. Take a film like "12 angry men". An excellent movie for young people to see, in many ways. This could be said of many older movies. However, how many young people will sit through something so obviously old, or outdated? Many will simply automatically dismiss the film as worthless. Colorize it, and it will be more acceptable to them.
Now something like "the Maltese Falcon" IMO would look silly in color.

But if somebody wants to make a color version, more power to them.

However wonderful the original is, if nobody watches it what is the value?

[Barry Sandrew]

Colorization is not better than the original black and white. It's different and should stand on it's own as a creative interpretation... i.e, a creative derivative work.

Many people look at colorization as simply the job of changing a B&W film to color. However it's much more involved and sophisticated than that. The designer has a great deal of latitude in how he or she wants the film to look and uses the underlying b&w as a structure and guide on which to build their own interpretation of the film.

[lordsmurf]

I often mistake early color film as colorized. It was just not very good. I might have to check out a Legend Films release, I'm curious how 21st century colorization techniques look.

But I'll always prefer the B&W. For nostalgia, if nothing else.

I colorize B&W photos, but I paint them by hand (in software). I don't use an automatic routine of any kind. It's not the same.

[Marvingj]

The chief objection to the colorization of movies in the 1980s was it represented a diversion from the intentions of their creators. The fact that it is the creators of the texts now making the digitally inspired changes doesn't make it forgivable. The creators' intentions were what they were when they created these works, and that doesn't change because their intentions might be different if they were creating the same works today.

Another understandable factor for the "new colorization" is the need for the owners of these bodies of work to make them continually lucrative. Let's face it, as much as we believe films and (to a much lesser extent) television programs are works of art, they are also equally works of commerce.

In this age of the "long tail" when it comes to music and moving images, movies, and such can continue to be assets with ongoing value for many, many years. It behooves their creators and owners to ensure they will continue to be marketable. Even though CGI alterations may not end up being any more long lasting than colorization was, right now such updates are, in some cases, thought to be necessary.

[DereX888]

[i] I really question how many Studios/Producer/Directors would have chosen bw if costs and the availability of the colour equipment were not a factor.

Obviously NONE
AFAIR very few i.e. "film-noir" were made with B&W in mind from the get go.
99.99% of B&W films were made in B&W just and only because of budget.
Wasn't it Hitchcock who said that he regret not being "famous director" from the begining? (because it would spare him from constant battle over the budgets - and sacrifices such as lack of color negatives).

Purists can always take down the color on their tvs (simply slide the saturation to 0) and voila, they still enjpy B&W cleaned-up and restored version (if original "B&W" version hasn't been included - which IMHO is a waste of space on a DVD).
Same goes for those opposing "fake" multichannel sound - how hard it is to push buttons on your amplifier to have the sound back in MONO?!
"Purists" should go fcuk themselves and never come back LOL

[guns1inger]

Except that taking down the colour on your TV is not the same thing.

Hitchcock chose to make Psycho in black and white for two reasons. One was budgetary - he wanted to make a film on a small budget, in a short time frame utilizing his TV crew. The other reason for black and white was so he make the shower scene the way he wanted. If it had been in colour it would never have got past the censors. In the last 20 years, several films have been shot in released in black and white - Schindler's List, The Man Who Wasn't There, PI, The Good German. These were artistic decisions on the part of the film-makers.

There is nothing wrong with the preservation of the original films. Prior to colour, films were planned for and designed for black and white - that was all they had to work with. Many films gain nothing at all from the conversion to colour, other than to appease the moron audience who have the attention span of oh look ! a beetle !. Citizen Kane doesn't become a greater film because it is in colour, or less powerful because it isn't.

I accept that the technology is moving forward and the colourising processes being employed now are a great improvement over the techniques used a decade ago. I also accept that colourising and releasing colourised version of older films may be the only way to ensure the preservation of the originals in many cases.

But if you honestly cannot watch a film because it isn't in colour then you aren't really watching the film. A great film is a great film because of the content - the story, the characters, the acting, the directing. If all of that means nothing simply because it was shot in black and white then adding colour really isn't going to change your experience.

[DereX888]

In the last 20 years, several films have been shot in released in black and white

Therefore I am sure it is safe to assume and you'll agree, that it would have been similar (if not exactly the same) percentage of films that were deliberately shot in B&W in the older times as well, and thats what I was talking about earlier. One every few thousands of old movies was really made with B&W in mind, the rest, 99.99% of them, were shot in B&W just because they couldn't afford color reels, thats all.

Many films gain nothing at all from the conversion to colour, other than to appease the moron audience who have the attention span of oh look ! a beetle !. Citizen Kane doesn't become a greater film because it is in colour, or less powerful because it isn't.

Exactly.
Such people will not buy "Citizen Kane" regardless of it being color or B&W, FS or WS or HD, or even if in the future it will be 'restored' to some futuristic "Real 3-D" - they still won't buy it, much less understand it even if someone else would force them to see it. Thats normal. After all we are NOT the same, we all differ intellectually (and in many other ways), despite what all the politically correct pigs try to teach and preach and brainwash the masses.

But... we're not discussing such people here (and I doubt there are any in this thread either)
There is nothing wrong with "color restoration" same as there is nothing wrong with any restoration of old films (or sound, ie music).
If any "purist" misses i.e. brownish hue of the B&W film (if thats what you meant by taking down color on tv not being the same) they can always choose NOT to buy colored version, I still see no problem at all.

[guns1inger]

If you understood anything about film design, especially for black and white film, then you would understand why turning down the colour on a colour film is not the same as watching the black and white print.

However it is obvious by your tone and attitude that there is no reasonable discourse to be had here.

[DereX888]

If you understood anything about film design, especially for black and white film, then you would understand why turning down the colour on a colour film is not the same as watching the black and white print.

However it is obvious by your tone and attitude that there is no reasonable discourse to be had here.

Yeah, right.
Just don't buy any colourized versions, is anyone pointing a gun to your head at the dvd stand or something? :O
Since youre such purist, why do you even buy B&W DVDs - do you even understand how the B&W films end up on your color DVD (even though the film appear as B&W)? You should buy a projector and reels instead if youre such purist LOL because I can assure you, the 'distortion' that you would experience from turning down color on a color film is *nothing* compared to 'distortion' you are experiencing every time any film is being displayed on *any* tv versus it being projected on the screen

[guns1inger]

If you had bothered to read any of the preceding thread you know that I have in fact already purchased and commented on one of Legend Films colourised versions, with two more now in the post. I appreciate the technical side of what they are doing, and also appreciate the fact that they ship both the restored black and white original as well as the colourised version. They also happen to pull together a pretty good extra package - something else you probably consider a waste of space on the disc.

If only you had some idea of what you were talking about, this might be worth continuing on with.

[lordsmurf]

Any photographer will tell you that stripping color is not the same as shooting B&W. I guess you'd require darkroom, shooting AND viewing time to get that one.

[Barry Sandrew]

A great film is a great film because of the content - the story, the characters, the acting, the directing.

EXACTLY! And that's why colorization does not ruin a black and white film. If a classic is destroyed by colorization then it probably isn't a classic to begin with. Used effectively, color enhances the perception and interpretation of the film and the original creative intent.

Hey... no one should get heated over the colorization issue. It's really nothing more than a issue of choice. FYI - if colorization were not in demand, I'd open a car wash.

[guns1inger]

A bad colourisation is like the audio being slightly off-sync. Some people won't notice, some people wont care, and for some it will be unwatchable. It becomes a distraction and ultimately ruins the experience. That was part of the problem with early attempts at computer colourisation.

[Barry Sandrew]

A bad colourisation is like the audio being slightly off-sync. Some people won't notice, some people wont care, and for some it will be unwatchable. It becomes a distraction and ultimately ruins the experience. That was part of the problem with early attempts at computer colourisation.

I agree, but that's no longer an issue.

[manono]

If a classic is destroyed by colorization then it probably isn't a classic to begin with.

I disagree. I prefer to think that if a film is enhanced by colorization, then it isn't a classic to begin with. Look no further than your own Reefer Madness. A crummy movie made more enjoyable by the colorization. Purple smoke indeed!

[Barry Sandrew]

If a classic is destroyed by colorization then it probably isn't a classic to begin with.

I disagree. I prefer to think that if a film is enhanced by colorization, then it isn't a classic to begin with. Look no further than your own Reefer Madness. A crummy movie made more enjoyable by the colorization. Purple smoke indeed!

The restored black and white has pure white smoke, just the way you like it. The Legend Films DVD is now the best black and white version available and it exists in High Definition as well. That wouldn't have been possible had we not provided the colorized version. As a consequence we greatly increased the asset value of the film as measured by our sales.

FYI: There is no incentive for anyone to transfer and restore public domain classics to High Definition. Look at the PD crap that is on the shelves selling for a buck. Those unwatchable black and white versions would be all you could purchase if it was not for the latest advances in colorization.

[AlfredBergman]

Colorization can represent a vast variable gamma of possibilities and design of colors, as said Barry Sandrew. I do colorization myself and know about the process quite well.

I invite all you to take a look on those colorizations of B&W photographs & movie stills:

http://www.dvdbeaver.com/film/1/alberto/web/alberto.htm

Unlike Legend Films agreement with studios, imposition from studios, I usually alter the b&W original contrast adjust, getting britter, darker, or lower or higher contrast, according my intentions for the colorization.

In my humble opinion the original film B&W grading scene to scene could be adjusted a little, when needed, to be adequate for colorization. I don't refer about apatial alteration of contrast in a specific are of a frame, but a contrast adjust along the entire frame, as a photographer use to in developement and exposuredo in B&W photograph.

There are scenes on some Legend Films work, that, despite of great technology, didn't get well due the fact of the original contrast balance, for the scene, was too weird to proper get colors. Like too bright, or too flat middle range tones etc, lacking density etc.

Think with me: Once the B&W original version are available as a separated film, there is no more need to all scenes in the colorization follow the original B&W grading of the original photography. Colorization it's a different version itself, and a weird contrast can distort the colors.
If the B&W will be turned into entire new way as colored image, why keep always the original contrast gradding even when it spoils the color in scenes here and there?
I hope the studios open their eyes and stop to require this silly exigency.

Let the colors shine fine!!!

[DereX888]

Colorization can represent a vast variable gamma of possibilities and design of colors, as said Barry Sandrew. I do colorization myself and know about the process quite well.

I invite all you to take a look on those colorizations of B&W photographs & movie stills:

http://www.dvdbeaver.com/film/1/alberto/web/alberto.htm

Unlike Legend Films agreement with studios, imposition from studios, I usually alter the b&W original contrast adjust, getting britter, darker, or lower or higher contrast, according my intentions for the colorization.

In my humble opinion the original film B&W grading scene to scene could be adjusted a little, when needed, to be adequate for colorization. I don't refer about apatial alteration of contrast in a specific are of a frame, but a contrast adjust along the entire frame, as a photographer use to in developement and exposuredo in B&W photograph.

There are scenes on some Legend Films work, that, despite of great technology, didn't get well due the fact of the original contrast balance, for the scene, was too weird to proper get colors. Like too bright, or too flat middle range tones etc, lacking density etc.

Think with me: Once the B&W original version are available as a separated film, there is no more need to all scenes in the colorization follow the original B&W grading of the original photography. Colorization it's a different version itself, and a weird contrast can distort the colors.
If the B&W will be turned into entire new way as colored image, why keep always the original contrast gradding even when it spoils the color in scenes here and there?
I hope the studios open their eyes and stop to require this silly exigency.

Let the colors shine fine!!!

Yes, I completely agree with your thoughts!


BTW:
great job here:

[AlfredBergman]

f[/quote]

Yes, I completely agree with your thoughts!


BTW:
great job here:
[/quote]

This was the only image on that page that wasn't really colorized, but a full color transplant. I had a smaller color version and the larger B&W version.
I had to adjust gamma, contrast of the B&W, and geometric distortions and size to be able to transplant the colors from the little color version to the large B&W. I could fully colorized that image to look warmer, with more contrast colors.

Alfred

[Nelson37]

An interesting tidbit.

Just watched an interview with Robert Mitchum and Jane Russel on TCM. Mitchum commented about the "film noir" concept, his statement was to the effect that this was not due to any great vision of the director, but merely budget restraints as most of the lighting was devoted to "big ticket" productions.

Folks develop an expectation of what a movie should be, and don't like change. I have seen almost all the Laurel and Hardy movies presented as originally intended, piano player, etc. When you see a talkie, or a color movie (I believe there was only one), even though they were originally made that way, you expect BW and silent. IMO it is less "artistic merit" than just not what was expected.

Any effort which preserves these oldies is worthwhile. I know a lot of the old silent comedies have already been lost forever. If somebody digitized and preserved these in order to sell plumbing fixtures, I would applaud the process. A good colorization IMO will preserve the impact of older films for future generations, who will themselves judge whether they like the original BW, turn-of-the-century color, or the new Super Whizzo 3000 hologram conversion.