Dell to Offer Ubuntu 7.04

[rkgibbons]

Bottom line: Linux will always appeal to only a small subset of the market...and as a part-time Linux user myself, that's a very GOOD thing.

In fact, the very SURVIVAL of Linux (as we know it today) depends on the mass market NEVER adopting it as their preferred platform. Because once everyone is using it, then it starts to bloat.

The more people using it, the more drivers that need to be crammed in, the more viruses people will start writing, the more security code included, the more compatibility workarounds, the more general purpose applications, the more user-friendly help, the more...the more...the more.

Gone will be the stream-lined Linux that we have today.

Jeepers, even look at Ubuntu today. It's WAY more bloated than Linux was just a few years ago. And it has lots of features now that the Unix community was insulting about Windows just a few years ago.

It is already becoming more and more like a mass-market product. And the more people use it, the more it will come to resemble Windows.

So lets pray that it never gains too much popularity, or we'll lost it altogether.

[AlecWest]

Well, what I'm hoping is tha Linux (generic) becomes more mainstream than it is ... but that no one distribution does. In short, I'd not want to trade in one MaBell for another MaBell. Variety is the spice of life.

BTW, the haggis is in the fire for sure. About 10 minutes ago, I finalized the order on my new system from Georgia Computer Workshop (as well as a new monitor order from CompuVest). And once I get it, I'll install a dual-boot between Win2K Pro SP4 and Ubuntu 7.04 ... and go from there. I've been farting around with a few other distros that look nice (PC Linux 2007, etc.). But for starters, I think I'll just put Ubuntu on the new system.

The monitor I'm getting is a 21" CRT type (my cat would destroy a flat panel) w/1600x1200 resolution and .21 dot pitch. It's made by Hyundai/Cornerstone. The rest of the system includes:

-- Antec P160W case w/450watt PSU and fan
-- Asus Core2Duo motherboard
-- 3ghz P4 CPU w/2mb cache and heatsink fan
-- 2gb Kingston RAM
-- 2 Seagate 160gb PATA hard drives (I like PATA)
-- Sony internal floppy (why not, it's cheap)
-- 2 NEC AD-7170A DVD burners 16x (2mb buffers)
-- 56k modem (again, it's cheap)
-- keyboard/mouse

The motherboard comes with onboard video card, audio card, and ethernet. Insofar as the video card is concerned, since I'm not a gamer, it should suffice.

Total price including shipping ... approx $823 give or take UPS variances.

[rkgibbons]

The more popular Linux becomes, the more like Windows it becomes. The Ubuntu of today would make the Linux users of 5 or 10 years just roll their eyes and say, "It's just a Windows wanna-be clone."

Recent Linux distros have been "dumbed down" massively from the earlier versions of Linux. And as each new version comes out, they get a bit more bloated, a bit more like Windows, and a lot less like the alternate OS that everyone was championing a few years back. The more people using an operating system, the more you need to cater to their diverse needs...and the more bloated the operating system becomes. You can't escape that equation.

If it continues, we'll arrive at the day when the only difference between Linux and Windows is that Linux isn't sold by Microsoft (which to some Linux supporters is the most important thing anyway...whether they admit it or not).

[tekkieman]

While I agree with the assessment of what is happening to many popular distros, we also need to remember that underneath, linux isn't really changing that much. We still have the "from scratch" option, and I'll bet you can find a gentoo user that will insist that it (gentoo) is still "real linux".

I don't want to see linux become a Windows clone or wannabe either, but I think there are still some good things that can come of this. Even if this fails, it might just generate a few new drivers, and maybe even a new app or two.

[Faustus]

You know... as cool as Ubuntu on Dells is.. its still not enough to get me to buy a Dell

[buttzilla]

I just dual booted my vista laptop with Kubuntu. It runs pretty good on my toshiba a135. Intalled no problem too.

[dphirschler]

Let's face it, Windows does (or did) a lot of things right. They are in their position because they made a superior product. Yes, it had its problems. Virus vulnerability is way at the top. But what was constantly pushing me away from Windows was their continued distrust of their customers. And now it seems they are in bed with the RIAA and MPAA.

From what I understand about Linux and Unix is that it is not vulnerable to viruses like Windows is unless you habitually login and run your PC as "root". And although the GUI looks a lot like Windows, I don't see that as a bad thing. What's cool is you don't have to run with the GUI, or you can install another GUI if you like it better. Windows does not give you that choice.

So in conclusion, I hope Ubuntu spreads like wildfire. The only thing keeping me from installing it on all my home PCs is some of the software I need in Windows. If Linux takes off, then that problem will be a thing of the past. And the open-source nature of Linux will force the RIAA and MPAA to face some harsh realities.

I tried Linux back with Redhat ver. 7. I didn't get very far with it due to mainly hardware driver limitations. Ubuntu has made tremendous progress. Last night I successfully installed MAME on my Ubuntu PC, something that was unheard of for me back in the Redhat days.


Darryl

[GMaq]

Hi,
I would disagree with rkgibbons and say that the inverse is true, I came to Linux from XP and was scared shitless of the "Terminal" Now that I've been at it for awhile I still suck at it but am finding myself using it more and more in certain comfort areas, In fact I've uninstalled a lot of the Video GUI progs and started doing most (video)things with ffmpeg and WinFF (whose developer is a member here). If I didn't have that nice GUI interface to get me started I probably wouldn't have bothered though. So I think users are getting the best of both worlds especially with the latest distros, Ubuntu Feisty in particular. In my case the big cushy Linux has pointed me in the direction of the efficient stripped down CLI Linux. All the OS's have "windows" that certainly doesn't mean they work the same, and making software easy to acquire and install is has far more to do with common sense than with Microsoft!

[rkgibbons]

GMaq, sure, YOU might like to use the Terminal in Linux...but the average dude on the street doesn't want to. So the more "mainstream" Linux becomes, the more tools and applications that need to be created to make sure the average dude never has to see that kind of dialog.

This process is undeniable. Linux has gained in popularity over the last few years -- and every Distro has changed accordingly...adding more and more of the stuff that we were once insulting Windows for having only a handful of years ago.

Power and efficiency get replaced by ease-of-use and simplicity.

Be thankful that Linux is only as successful as it is. Because if Linux ever becomes as popular as Windows, well, then Linux will have all the same problems.

[GMaq]

rkgibbons,
I truly understand the point you are trying to make....with mainstream functionality comes mainstream headaches. But I think you are selling people short, I am as generic and average as they come! Everybody, even my 80 year old parents can make the transition from not knowing where the power button is to checking their e-mail, if the will to learn is there. I wouldn't say I like or dislike the Terminal, it is the sensible alternative sometimes if the user so desires, after using Linux for a while and with the excellent community support and cut and paste ready-made terminal commands it will just become second nature at some varying point in time. it really is no bigger a leap than learning to use any new application. There used to be no choice now there is...So that in itself is progress. It (Linux) will stand or fall on it's unique merits.

[rkgibbons]

GMaq,

I'm not selling people short. I think you're grossly over-estimating the computer skills of the average person.

The average person on the street doesn't want to deal with command line interfaces (in any form). Nor do they want to visit any kind of tech-related community support websites to find answers to their problems (in fact, they probably don't know those even exist).

They don't want to install operating systems or go searching online for drivers to support their hardware. Or download applications that are compatible with Windows stuff so that they can open the files their friends send them.

The fact that you're on this board chatting about Linux is proof positive that you're certainly not a generic and average computer user. You may feel you are, but that just isn't the case. The average computer user is surfing the web, or playing games, or printing photos, or checking their e-mail.

The simple fact that you know how to burn an ISO of Ubuntu and install it is more proof that you're not an average computer user.

Linux, in it's currently flavours, will never appeal to the mainstream...because it isn't designed to appeal to the mainstream. It appeals to computer users who are a bit more comfortable with "tweaking" and "seeking support online" and "finding solutions on their own".

This streamlined, efficient approach to an OS is what makes Linux so damn appealing to us somewhat nerdier folk in the computing world.

You start changing Linux to appeal to the masses...and...well...Linux stops existing as we know it today.

It's already happening to some degree.

[GMaq]

rkgibbons,
Thanks for the compliment.....I think - Maybe I AM Special!!(:-b)

[Lucifers_Ghost]

"Special" is all relative

[AlecWest]

Let's face it, Windows does (or did) a lot of things right. They are in their position because they made a superior product. Yes, it had its problems. Virus vulnerability is way at the top. But what was constantly pushing me away from Windows was their continued distrust of their customers. And now it seems they are in bed with the RIAA and MPAA.

Yup, how true. It's the only reason I'm trying to distance myself from Microsoft. I have no problems with Microsoft OS software, per se. My only problems are with Microsoft's EULA for XP and (worse) Vista ... and the Orwellian lengths they go to to police their userbase. My Win2K Pro OEM cd arrived today. That's the system I'll be installing when my new computer arrives next week ... to act as a "transitionary" OS while I experiment with Linux distros. The transition period may not be a short one. But, I'll try to distance myself from MS as much as possible in as little time as possible.

BTW, yesterday, I got my new 21" monitor (it only took 1 day shipping with "cheap" method chosen ... no kidding).

P.S. Of course (grin), Microsoft could change its ways and stop its current wave of online validations and revalidations ... but I won't be holding my breath (my XP hasn't had that problem yet ... but friends have run into the issue).

[DereX888]

As much as I favor linux (any distro) there is one windoze I always admire and think of as a very superior OS: NT4, which is actually still the first NT3.5 (which is actually same-old IBM's OS/2 hehe) but just with Win95's GUI and very few Microsoft's own additions (pollution ).
That OS can run fast - I recently installed it on a Pentium 166 MHz (haha!) laptop with only 64MB of RAM, and it run better than my favorite Win2000 on any faster laptops... If this (the NT4.0) could get out in the wild under free GNU licence, or even if someone could stole and just leak the source code - that would be beautiful I bet within few months we would have had an OS far superior to any of the linuxes, windozes or macs... an OS thats easy enough for average Joe to use, yet with stability surpassed by unix only... OS to die for


PS
No I dont promote theft, but I also think current copyrights are wrong, and no company should be allowed to just hide from the public the source code of their retired software products no longer than 20-25 years, and it should have become public property after no more than a quarter century. Profit from investement and protection of private property is first, of course, but if one couldn't figure out how to make profit in 25 years then thats it, bye bye. There wouldn't be no progress at all in the world if our ancestors would have hold on to their "copyrights" forever, because as always - one invention leads to another, and newer inventions are most of the time not possible if the previous ones are not publicly available.