conversion resizing

[bigfatbob]

I Have an avi Video with a resolution of 640*352 at 25fps. The image is full screen, there is no
blanking on top and bottom.

I have try different settings to encode mpeg2 for an Ntsc dvd with cce sp 2.70. I set the frame rate to 25, I tried to uncheck 'for dvd' and set the frame size manually. But the best im able to do is a video of 720*540(image full screen, no blanking) at 25fps. So the image is stretch. I try adding blanking on ccesp on top and bottom, but the blanking is on top of the image. So the image is not resize with the blanking.

Correct me if im wrong but the result should be :

for a result of 720*480 : 720*396 for the image, 720*42 for the top blanking and 720*42 for the bottom blanking.

for a result of 720*540 : 720*396 for the image, 720*72 for the top blanking and 720*72 for the bottom blanking.

Is it possible to achieved this without usiong A LOT of program like (AviSynth, DGPulldown ...).
Because I have about 120 video to encode this way. If I cant do it with all with cce sp, how can I do ??

thanks

[manono]

Correct me if im wrong...

OK, you're wrong. In most of what you said.

It already is 720x480. That 720x540 you get is the resized image at playback. Encoding for 4:3, as you did, FitCD gives me this:

LanczosResize(720,368,6,0,628,352)
AddBorders(0,56,0,56)

Meaning 56 rows of pixels of black both above and below. You can probably use something like the free version of ConvertX2DVD to do the job. If you're going to use a high-end encoder like CCE, you should learn to do it right.

640x352 isn't fullscreen, by the way. It's usually considered to be widescreen.

[Alex_ander]

Adding borders in CCE is possible with 'for DVD' setting but you can't use it if you are planning framerate conversion in DGPulldown because it sets PAL frame size for a 25Hz encoding. You can resize/add borders in AviSynth (e.g. to letterbox a 16:9 image you have to resize it to 720x360 and add borders complementing it to 720x480). In CCE uncheck 'for DVD' and 'resize', set 25Hz and 'progressive frame' ('picture quality' page). To have proper GOP size, do all this by editing a PAL (not NTSC) template. Encode as elementary (important) video stream, then apply DGPulldown.
Don't be afraid of two extra applications: both work fast and you'll be able to use the first AviSynth script as a template (as well as the CCE template you create) for your numerous videos.

[bigfatbob]

thanks both of you

First, do Ntsc format can be 25fps or it need to be 29.97fps ?

Ok, heres what I have done. I installed fit FitCD and it it can generate avisynth. I set up the
resolution to 720*480 not PAL.

Then I load the avisynth script into cce sp, using the ntsc dvd template.

The result of the encode file is a video of 720*540. the image inside is 688*352. So its not bad at all. Except the voice do not fit with the image.

Alex_ander Is it possible to give me a step by step for avisynth and cce sp ? Im almost to give up

thanks

[manono]

First, do Ntsc format can be 25fps or it need to be 29.97fps ?

It has to output 29.97fps. That's what the DGPulldown step does; it takes a progressive 25fps video stream and flags it so that it outputs 29.97fps (without changing the length).

The result of the encode file is a video of 720*540.

No, the result is a video of 720x480. How many times do I have to say it? Want proof? Open the MPV or M2V or a VOB in GSpot, or in DGIndex and check the resolution.

Then I load the avisynth script into cce sp, using the ntsc dvd template.

Don't use any templates.

Except the voice do not fit with the image.

You speeded it up to 29.97fps. You didn't encode for 25fps. We went through all this in your other thread:

https://forum.videohelp.com/viewtopic.php?p=1694142&highlight=#1694142

You didn't believe me (and theewizard)? You thought I was joking?

Im almost to give up

Yes, better you give up. Try DVD Flick instead.

[bigfatbob]

Sorry manono, you were right all along. I don't have a lot of knowledge toward dvd conversion. That's why, I posted question in newbie conversion forum. I was expecting more details with the procedure to convert dvd. Now I understand better, thanks

You said not to choose any template from ccesp 2.70 but its impossible, you have to choose one in the menu. Does avisynth script override setting of ccesp ?.. Anyway I've finally been able to get a video of 720*480 (720*368 for the image) in 25fps. With the use of ccesp and this avisynth script :

# -= AviSynth v2.5.7.0 script by FitCD v1.2.8 =-
AVISource("D:\DVD\01-trim.avi")
BicubicResize(720,368,0,0.6,6,0,628,352)
AddBorders(0,56,0,56)
#Trim(0,1678).FadeOut(150)

If I compare the orignal avi and the mpeg2 files with gspot, they have the same setting. 25 for pic/s and 25 for frames/s with a lenght of 1:07.160.

Now I try to convert from 25fps to 29.97fps with dgpulldown. When I open the m2v files generate by dgpulldown with gspot, the result is 23.976 for pic/s and 29.970 for frames/s with a lenght of 1:10.029. what's wrong ?

thanks

[manono]

You said not to choose any template from ccesp 2.70 but its impossible, you have to choose one in the menu.

No you don't. Have you even bothered to read the manual? Right-click the .avs in the little rectangular screen and hit "Edit".

First things first. Either disable the audio or remove it completely from the AVI. I'll show you how in a minute. Don't let CCE handle the audio. Do it in a specialized audio program, like BeSweet or Aften or something. Use this script:

AVISource("D:\DVD\01-trim.avi",False) #false disables the audio
LanczosResize(720,352)#using ITU resizing so no cropping needed
AddBorders(0,64,0,64)
ConvertToYUY2()

Before sending to CCE, test that script first in VDub(Mod) to make sure it's OK. Scroll around and see how it looks. If there's an error message you don't understand, report it here.

Open CCE and drag the .avs into the little rectangle, right-click the .avs and hit "Edit". In the new big screen that opens up, make yours look like this, with some exceptions I'll explain in a minute:

Starting at the top right side and moving down. Uncheck "For DVD". Set the framerate to 25. Set up for Multipass VBR and set the min, avg, and max bitrates however you like. Set the number of passes however you like. I like true VBR encoding and set the V/C to "0". Others prefer the default. Up to you. Read the manual and decide how you want to set it. Or wait until some other people come here and give you their opinion. Your Aspect ratio for this one (based on the script you're using from FitCD) is 4:3. Starting in the top left now. Make the Timecode setting start with "0". Make everything in that row a "0". This is an old pic. You'll be making it different from how the pic shows (not that it makes a whole lot of difference). Uncheck "Audio file". Make everything else like this. Now hit the Advanced button in the lower right:

And make everything exactly like this. Then hit OK and go back to the main screen and hit the Picture Quality button in the lower right:

Make everything like this. Make the green line go straight across. Comp->Flat=0 (again, maybe controversial - read the manual and decide for yourself). Fades, Progressive, 10-bit, Zigzag, all the same. "OK" back out to the main screen.

Along the bottom, hit "Save" to save the template. Call it maybe PAL2NTSC or whatever you like. The next time you have a 25fps AVI or a PAL DVD, you can "Load" that template and just adjust the bitrates and maybe the aspect ratio and you'll be ready to encode. Set up other templates when you have other kinds of sources (like a 23.976fps AVI). The one you use the most you can make the default, and CCE will always open with it.

When done setting up, "OK" back out to the little rectangle, hit "Encode", save the ECL, and wait. When done encoding, take the MPV it gives you and open it in DGPulldown. Tick the "Custom" box, set it for 25->29.97, and "Convert". Take the M2V it gives you, together with your DVD compliant audio (with the length unchanged) and author with whatever you like.

[FulciLives]

Personally I would resize to 16x9 WS like this:

AVISource("D:\DVD\01-trim.avi", false)
LanczosResize(688,448,0,0,640,352)
AddBorders(16,16,16,16)
ConvertToYUY2()

Even if you only have a 4:3 TV today you may have a 16x9 WS TV in the future ... or may want to bring the DVD to a friend's house that has a 16x9 WS TV, etc.

You would do exactly as manono said for setting up CCE except you checkmark 16:9 instead of 4:3

One other small grip I have ... if the average bitrate is to be 7,324 then you could most likely get away with a 1-pass CBR encode and save some time. Even if you will be doing a multi-pass VBR I would set the MAX to no higher than 9,000kpbs with a MIN of no less than 2,000kbps.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[manono]

You caught me while editing. Fixing up stuff here and there. Yeah, like I said in there, different (and very competent) people might do some things differently. Me, I have my reasons, and I'm aiming for true VBR. And since that one was a very short movie (78 minutes with 2 DD 2.0@192 audio tracks), the average bitrate is much higher than usual. He originally presented us with an AviSynth script for 4:3, and I didn't bother suggesting he change over to 16:9, but that's a worthwhile suggestion, I think. However, I'll go to my grave fighting against adding blocks overscan, unless there are some subs that might otherwise get cut off. I know you and guns1inger disagree. And, like you said, he'll have a widescreen TV set someday, and it should have little or no overscan, and those borders may come back to haunt him. Just an opinion. Thanks for the input.

[FulciLives]

You caught me while editing. Fixing up stuff here and there. Yeah, like I said in there, different (and very competent) people might do some things differently. Me, I have my reasons, and I'm aiming for true VBR. And since that one was a very short movie (78 minutes with 2 DD 2.0@192 audio tracks), the average bitrate is much higher than usual. He originally presented us with an AviSynth script for 4:3, and I didn't bother suggesting he change over to 16:9, but that's a worthwhile suggestion, I think. However, I'll go to my grave fighting against adding blocks overscan, unless there are some subs that might otherwise get cut off. I know you and guns1inger disagree. And, like you said, he'll have a widescreen TV set someday, and it should have little or no overscan, and those borders may come back to haunt him. Just an opinion. Thanks for the input.

Well for 16x9 WS ANAMORPHIC with no TV OVERSCAN compensation then use:

AVISource("D:\DVD\01-trim.avi", false)
LanczosResize(720,480,0,0,640,352)
ConvertToYUY2()

I prefer to compensate for TV OVERSCAN when the source is a DivX/XviD AVI etc. but hey that's me *shrugs*

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[Alex_ander]

Alex_ander Is it possible to give me a step by step for avisynth and cce sp ? Im almost to give up
thanks

I've been away sleeping . Manono explained everything in detail and the best way.
Just one thing left worth mentioning (I told about GOP size settings). GOP (group of pictures) size in an encoding intended for processing in DGPulldown is recommended to be 12 frames (lower than 15 for PAL and 18 for NTSC standard limits). In DGPulldown documentation there's an explanation why even 15 frames can cause DVD compliency problems (through VOBU display duration).
In CCE you always begin from an existing template and edit it (if needed) for a current encoding. When you drag the source file to the queue window, the template checked earlier in 'Template' dropdown is loaded for it, then you edit it after right-clicking your video. So if you checked a PAL template it will have all its default settings. Now you can understand why I recommended to begin from PAL template: in CCE 2.70 default GOP size for PAL is 12 and you don't need to go to advanced settings to change it (like with NTSC template where it is 15 by default).

[bigfatbob]

Thanks all for your Help .. Guess what ? I've finally suceed .. The resolution is perfect, the sound fit with the image and it play on my home dvd player .. Now I can encode my 120 videos

In spite of, I have one last question haunting my mind.
If I play the original file In media player and maximize it, it looks exactly the same as the encode mpeg2 file. So its really 720*352 with 64 blanking on top and bottom (as you said manono).
But my original avi resolution is 640*352, so isn't be suppose to give 720*396 ((720 x 352) / 640) = 396 .. with 42 blanking on top and bottom.

anyway, thanks again.

[jagabo]

my original avi resolution is 640*352, so isn't be suppose to give 720*396 ((720 x 352) / 640) = 396 .. with 42 blanking on top and bottom.

No. AVI files usually have square pixels, DVD does not.

[FulciLives]

Also why encode to 4:3 WS instead of 16x9 WS ???

In other words it makes no sense to go 4:3 WS when you can go 16x9 WS since the source is widescreen after all.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[manono]

In other words it makes no sense to go 4:3 WS when you can go 16x9 WS since the source is widescreen after all.

I didn't bring this up last time, but it does make some sense, especially if he's viewing on a 4:3 TV set. One reason is that he's not resizing in the vertical direction, and that's always good. The other and more important reason is that if encoding for 16:9 and playing on a 4:3 TV set, he'll lose 1/4 of the already compromised resolution (compromised from the original DVD, if it was 16:9). That is, unless the TV can do the "Anamorphic Squeeze", very rare in the US with only a few Sonys being able to do it, it's actually going to look worse than if he had encoded it for 4:3.

http://www.keohi.com/keohihdtv/learnabout/definitions/anamorphicsqueeze.html

If you view Anamorphic DVDs on a standard 4x3 television set, the DVD player normally converts every 4 horizontal lines of the picture into 3 lines, reducing resolution by 25%.

http://gregl.net/videophile/16x9on4x3.htm

So, using your script above, the original 352 rows of resolution get interpolated to 480 rows, although the resolution hasn't really increased. When played on the 4:3 TV, those 480 rows shrink to 360 rows. 360/480=3/4. 352 x (3/4) = 264. So, he'll be viewing 264 effective rows of resolution. Follow me?

When I do something like that (convert a widescreen 4:3 DVD to 16:9, for example), I'll sharpen it up a bit, which doesn't add any actual resolution, as you can't invent something that isn't there. But it does increase the perceived detail and sharpness. Or maybe I'm just kidding myself. But I am viewing on a widescreen TV set.

[FulciLives]

Well I guess my point is ... although he doesn't have a 16x9 WS TV now ... he surely will sooner than latter. So might as well convert it to 16x9 WS ANAMORPHIC.

I understand everything you said but resizing now for 16x9 WS will look "best" on a 16x9 WS TV so even though he only has a 4:3 TV now ... it's like "future proofing" it to make it 16x9 WS now.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman