Best way to fit 3.5 hours of video on 1 DVD

[enutz]

I have a bunch of old trailers on VHS. I wanted to try to get them all on 1 dvd. Is there any way to do this without them looking horrible?

[Baldrick]

I would use a standalone DVD Recorder.

How do you capture/record now?

[enutz]

I don't have a stand alone. I run my VCR through my camcorder thats connected to the computer with firewire I get a massive AVI file. I have done the same but with only 1hour then used Super to convert to mpeg2 then to DVD and the quality was good.

[Shadarr]

Hi there, I'll add a little if I may

It sort of depends on what you find 'horrible' (and this thread can become very long, if everyone starts putting what 'they prefer' hehe).

Here's a couple ideas though:

(1) If by horrible, you mean 'blocks/atrifacts' during playback (you will hear people talking about 'macroblocks' and 'mosquitoes'), then you can LOWER the BITRATE to get more time on the DVD, but not 'too far' or you'll start seeing these problems.

That leads into

(2) Since you are coming from VHS, you won't lose a lot of detail by REDUCING the RESOLUTION to say 352x240 (QuarterDVD/VHS) and then you can even LOWER the BITRATE even more, down to 1800 (hardly any blocks/artifacts then) or even 1300.. at those bitrates, you could fit 6 hours and more on one DVD-4

Hope that helps, have fun

[redwudz]

DV from the camcorder is about 13GB/Hour. The best way would be a standalone MPEG encoder and use 1/2 D1 format as Shadarr mentioned. If SUPER will work at that framesize, good. Otherwise, look to the freeware HC or QuEnc encoders or you might try DivxToDVD, which is the older freeware version of ConvertXToDVD.

I assume you are also converting the DV audio to a more compact format, AC3 is a good choice.

To fit 3 1/2 hours on a DVD, try using a bitrate calculator from our 'Tools' section. https://www.videohelp.com/tools/VideoHelp_Bitrate_calculator Take the total running time of your videos and input that, and it will tell you the bitrate required for your videos. If you use 1/2 D1, you should be able to get it all on there with reasonable quality. For info on 1/2 D1, look to the upper left on this page for 'WHAT IS' DVD. <<<<<<

[enutz]

Thanks for all the imput, I've never tried going to 1/2D1 I believe Super will let me, I'll give it a try!

[enutz]

OK I'm using a 1800 bitrate, a smaller audio & 352x240. Should I still encode to mpeg2 or should I be using mpeg1

[codecpage]

There should be no reason to use 1/2 format for 3.5 hours unless you use a crappy mpeg2 encoder. I regularly store this much in full frame PAL with no problems.
What you want to do with VHS captures inevitably is to clean them from noise and flicker. Use Virtualdub's temporal smoother filter at 5 or 6. If you don't clean these files, all your bit rate will go into noise.
More filter hints on my page.
One capable encoder is CCE Basic. There are others. You can frameserve to them from Virtualdub. Use a VBR 2 pass encoding with about 0/2500/9000.
If you want to use TMPGenc, may also work and has a temporal noise filter built in.
If the file is still a bit too large in the end, you may reduce the DVD files a bit with DVDshrink. The CCE/DVDshrink combo is quite good at achieving the minimum bit rate.

Cheers

[manono]

OK I'm using a 1800 bitrate

For 3.5 hours? For 3.5 hours, 4400 MB, and AC3 audio at 224kbs I get about 2700 kbs. If you have PCM audio, convert it to MP2 or AC3 and improve the quality of your video considerably. And I agree with codecpage; no way I'd ever use 352x240.

[lordsmurf]

3½ hours is a cakewalk.

Use 352x480 (Half D1)
Use a bitrate of 2500k, VBR encoding, max of about 3000k.
Those bitrate includes audio. I suggest audio be stereo at 256k.

It's really that easy.

DVD recorders use 2500k VBR for 4-hour encoding. Good machines use 352x480.
The video should look good.

352x240 is ridiculously low res, and will distort your video (deinterlace, mostly).
Use as much bitrate as you can without going over.

Using more discs or using DVD+R DL media is another option.

There should be no reason to use 1/2 format for 3.5 hours unless you use a crappy mpeg2 encoder. I regularly store this much in full frame PAL with no problems.

Not on a single-layer DVD you're not.
For all the times I hear people say "it works for me" blah blah blah, when referring to over-compression, I most often find their video looks like crap and their audio is distorted.

[enutz]

I only have Super as an encoder and it doesn't have an option for varible bit rate. Is there any better freeware encoders? That will let me do what i need.

[codecpage]

The best freeware encoder reportedly is HC encoder http://www.bitburners.com/HC_Encoder/.
It works well, but I can't tell if it keeps up to commercial products at low bitrates, as I haven't tested this. With CCE, I've recoded hundreds of satellite TV programs and get between 3 and 4 1/2 hours per (single layer!) DVD all the time at computer screen quality, far batter than average TVs can show. Audio I don't squeeze.
BTW there is no such thing as a 'good' hardware encoder (stanalone DVD recorder) for this purpose in the amateur price range.

Cheers

[lordsmurf]

BTW there is no such thing as a 'good' hardware encoder (stanalone DVD recorder) for this purpose in the amateur price range.

Again with the BS.

LSI chipsets are awesome, as are Zoran chipsets. These are found in DVD recorders, and products from those companies are found in professional-line hardware too. This has been discussed many times in past years.

RCA is available at Walmart, and has a Zoran chipset. The machine has quirks, but 3-hour encodes off satellite or digital cable using s-video input are pretty much perfect quality. These run up to $250, depending model (with or without HDD).

The LSI chipsets are clearly better, but only when used properly. JVC is one of the only machines that uses this chipset well, excellent video up to 4 hours. Refurbs can be gotten for $100.

CCE is not a very good encoder. It adds a lot of noise, where others like MainConcept and Procoder do it. CCE used to be good, but others got better in the past 5 years. CCE never really changed in quality. Those multi-pass options (3+) are ridiculous too.

[codecpage]

BTW there is no such thing as a 'good' hardware encoder (stanalone DVD recorder) for this purpose in the amateur price range.

Again with the BS.

RCA is available at Walmart, and has a Zoran chipset. The machine has quirks, but 3-hour encodes off satellite or digital cable using s-video input are pretty much perfect quality. These run up to $250, depending model (with or without HDD).

The LSI chipsets are clearly better, but only when used properly. JVC is one of the only machines that uses this chipset well, excellent video up to 4 hours. Refurbs can be gotten for $100.

I wouldn't consider this remarkable if it is done at half resolution.

CCE is not a very good encoder. It adds a lot of noise,

This is definitely a legend. It doesn't. I can't say what people may have done wrong with it to cause anything like this but I couldn't find any additional noise in whatsowever encoding I did. According to discussions here, it has also not been substantiated.

Those multi-pass options (3+) are ridiculous too

Here I fully agree.

Cheers

[lordsmurf]

CCE adds mosquito noise. End of story. It can be acceptable and hard to see, but it generally depends on the source. It will increase noise that already exists on VHS and satellite/digital sources. Something perfectly clean like DV will really not.

Half D1 is above/at/near most home sources.

Making DVDs at home with 720x480, when DV is not the source, is often overkill. You can do it, sure, go for it, but it needs to be done smart. That means using adequate bitrates, in the neighborhood of 5500-8000k. Low-bitrate Full D1 video insults my eyes.

[enutz]

Super doesn't let me do half D1, I've downloaded a couple of freeware encoding programs but so far nothing lets me put a AVI file in tinker with the resolution or has a VBR rate option. Am I outta luck with Freeware or does someone have another option.

[mats.hogberg]

You've already been recommended HCEnc. It's an encoder, not an editor, so you have to feed it the right resolution. Use fitCD to generate the necessary avisynt script for you.
No matter what resolution or bitrate, I've never succeded with anything better than mediocre output from Super.

/Mats

[lordsmurf]

Use the trial of TMPGEnc Plus 2.5. It allows for 2 weeks with no watermarks, last I knew.

[soundforbjt]

HCEnc blows TMPGEnc away, especially at low bitrates.

[redwudz]

lordsmurf, I tried TMPGEnc Plus 2.5 with your settings and it did look good. I just used a 700MB Xvid with a running time of about 1hr 40mn that I had handy, and made up a new template in TMPGEnc and named it HALFD1. The size of the video file doubled to about 1.5GB, but that would be the same even with a better quality source, depending on the running time. At least comparing the Xvid to the MPEG 1/2D1, they looked the same. And with those encoder settings, you would be able to get two average movies on one DVD.

I think it's a good option for VHS to MPEG conversions. It's too bad SUPER doesn't have that setting, but I didn't see any of the One-click converters that did either?

For freeware HC is probably a good option. Once you learn how to set it up, it should work well for those type of conversions. I would use AC3 for the audio. ffmpeggui, for one, is a easy way to convert the audio.

[enutz]

I downloaded HC but got lost with avisyth script talk. It seems like everytime I figure out something I hit a new roadblock. My wife is starting to think I'm crazy.

[theewizard]

Super doesn't let me do half D1, I've downloaded a couple of freeware encoding programs but so far nothing lets me put a AVI file in tinker with the resolution or has a VBR rate option. Am I outta luck with Freeware or does someone have another option.

yes it does, choose vob dvd compliant from the menu, 352*480 is one of the menu choices

[enutz]

Ok I'm almost there I found the option in Super of half D1, the quality looked fine to me except the picture doesn't fill the screen its a little box. Is it supposed to do that?

[theewizard]

on the PC or on DVD

once you author the and burn the DVD, it should fill the screen

[enutz]

When I used ffmpeg it came out distorted, then I tried the MEencoder option in Super & Bingo perfect. I'm perfectly happy with quality & it fits. This site helps me again! Thanks to everyone that responded!

[lordsmurf]

The distortion in FFMPEG may have been caused by the 4:3 aspect ratio not being set.