Advice - best PCI capture card $50-200 range

[abbymat]

hello,

I need advice on which is the best PCI capture card in the $50-200 range with both composite & s-vhs inputs to capture PAL VHS tapes to AVI. I have PCTV Stereo (saa7134) at present, capture quality is okay but thought a better card may be preferable.

also which is the best type to use AGP, PCI or USB ?

thanks

[shadowofanubis6]

I would like to know this as well.

[lordsmurf]

If you have AGP, get an ATI All In Wonder Radeon card in the 9000 series line. It will be used, not new, off eBay for about $50-75.

If you insist on new only, then good luck to you. It's a tall order to fill, and with all the crappy cards currently available, you're not likely to be all that pleased.

An external DV converter might be an option for new, but it only does DV, no uncompressed, no MPEG.

[abbymat]

yes, my motherboard has AGP 4x...is AGP superior to PCI ? is the ATI All In Wonder Radeon card in the 9000 series quality better than PCTV stereo ?

MOST IMPORTANT - will it capture 768 x 576 PAL as UNCOMPRESSED (huffyuv2) avi using virtualvcr/virtualdub/iuvcr etc ?

[Marvingj]

Try Happauge

[Bjs]

Before considering what it is you want , you need to say what cpu spec your pc has . Most decent devices require a minimum 2000mhz cpu , 2400mhz would be best .

Then the choice based upon current pc specs , and most important , os level currently installed .

There would be no point in buying a vivo unit (agp) , that requires by default , 8x agp , yet your current motherboard only supports a maximum of 4x , it would be a waste of not only money , but do not rely on manufactures claims , that the card supports , say , 8x , 4x , and 2x , as this has not been the case with all in the past , and I have seen cards die prematurely or suffer restrictions because the default agp "x" value is an actual requirement for all features to be enabled . Been there , done that .

Second hand is just that , second hand , and your relying on the person selling the device to be truthfull , otherwise you end up paying for nothing , oh , it arrives alright , but just outright , refuse's to fuction correctly , or even , stable , locking your pc up all the time . Not to forget , there's no warrantee or support , your on your own .

Usb devices will depend on the level of usb required , taking into account , usb2 requires sp2 for xp to be installed and the pc should have its own usb2 biult in , and not via a usb2 pci card addon .

If you choose usb2 , be carefull , and check the power requirements , as you need to add up all the usb devices connected to the pc to get a total amperage draw expected .

The usb2 avermedia device I use requires 2 amps , and there's no sodding way , it connects directly to the pc , it's on a self powered usb hub from belkin which supplies that power for the device when in use .

If you ever see the warning "usb reset" , ect , then you can just about forget capturing at the original quality , it gose south from now on . It caught me out before , and ended up replacing the motherboard . No , a pci usb2 card would have been an annoying bottle neck .

This usb reset error will also mean the death of you agp video card , sooner , rather than later as well .

Pci card type devices come in almost any form , from the quality , to the outright , complete junk .

Pci devices need to have drivers level checked , just in the off case of sp2 being a requirement , but beware of how they are installed .

Never install any pci card in pci1 (shares resources with onboard video / agp slot) .
There are very rare instances where you can do this , but leave it out .

Pci2 and pci3 , share resources as well , and if there's a card already installed , and required , such as an internal dialup modem , then you have only 2 choices left .

1: Go with usb
2: Buy an external modem and remove the internal unit to free up the slot for the capture card .

Some users will be lucky , as they will have pci4 and pci5 , but again , this pair share resources , so only one slot should contain a pci device .

Make sure the psu is above 400watts , I have seen some new p4's of late including less than 300watt psu's , which is a joke .

As for the final , video on hd , and any editing , your might also need to check on hd space availability . A second unit is only handy when there is space inside the pc case and dose not come into some other form of conflict , such as trying to cram in 6 hds , and 3 dvd burners , and finding out the reason it keeps rebooting , is the psu is overloaded .

As some have reported devices , I would suggest having a look at http://www.avermedia.com/index.asp available devices , as theses have never been a let down , they work as expected , straight out of the box , unlike other companies products .

Avermedia has some particular policy on their development of products , and I have yet to see any capture from any other device , come even close to the captures I get with the avertv product .

The final advice , when it comes down to the final choice , and installation , read and follow the installation document supplied with the unit very carefully . Do it the wrong way can not only lead to you scratching your head as to why it dose not want to work correctly , but can cause damage to the unit , and even to the pc itself .

1: Make sure current os and hardware are up to the require standards for the device .
2: In almost all case's , install the supplied software first .
3: Shutdown pc to perform install of new hardware .

For pci , remove powercord , as installing cards can trigger the system to wake .
For usb , simply make sure device is connected prior to pc startup (same as for dv cameras) .

Agp slot type , is a little more difficult considering the average motherboard has onboard video setup found in bios must be changed first to reflect where devices is , otherwise no video will be displayed on screen during bootup . Just a little pain .

Its a good idea to uninstall the older video drivers , then shut the pc down , prior to performing the hardware install .

Not to forget the difference between devices that support true hardware mpeg2 encoding , and those that do not .

My advice , forget those devices that actually perform hardware encoding by themselves to mpeg2 , they are reasonably picky at what can be done (supported formats) , or the programs that can be used to capture with , from the device .

Avertv usb2 capture works with products from ulead , sony , nero , intervideo , and a couple of others , 2 are freeware , just do not recall the names off hand at the moment .

Price wise :

Dvdezy maker gold pci originally sold for $85 around 3 years ago
Same time , avertv usb2 , sold at around $120 .

Considering how long I have had them without issues , I'll certainly be buying more from avermedia later .

[abbymat]

thanks for the detailed advice. i went in for lordsmurf's suggestion and got the ati all in wonder 9800 pro....got one off ebay $50, seems the best card available now save canopus which is very costly.

[jman98]

thanks for the detailed advice. i went in for lordsmurf's suggestion and got the ati all in wonder 9800 pro....got one off ebay $50, seems the best card available now save canopus which is very costly.

I have nothing against lordsmurf, but I am mystified at why so many people worship at the throne of ATI and act like there is nothing else. My recommendation (too late for you now) would have been to go with Hauppauge. I have their PVR-350 and it is a fantastic card, and even better, it has a hardware chip on the card to do the encoding. ATI relies on your system CPU for processing power - it does not do hardware encoding. Now that you have bought an ATI card, my advice to you is don't do anything at all on your PC while capturing video since you need to have as much processing power as possible dedicated to your on the fly software encoding. Too bad lordsmurf didn't tell you about that. I have serious doubts that this ATI is really better than anything Hauppauge sells, but you sure can't beat the price you paid. Your PC is going to be pushing the envelope for full frame DVD captures with your CPU, so for sure don't do anything else at all on it while capturing or you'll probably start dropping frames. That doesn't happen with hardware encoding because hardware encoding doesn't use your CPU for horsepower since it has a chip on the capture card dedicated to encoding. ATI does offer the ability to do AVI captures and Hauppauge doesn't, so that might one day be useful to you, although there's nothing wrong necessarily with capturing directly in MPEG-2. I do captures with my card directly in MPEG-2 at very high bit rates and then re-encode them down to whatever bit rate I need and I'm happy with the results. The ability to record in AVI format, if you want to do that, does give you an option that you might like. I'd say you got a good deal for the money, but just remember (this is the 3rd time I've said it) not to do anything on your PC while capturing to have best results.

[Abond]

In addition to what jman98 said, if you want to capture commercial tapes protected with macrovision, you need in addition to ATI a TBC device, because ATI cards are sensitive to macrovision signals, and Hauppauge PVR are not.

[lordsmurf]

- All capture cards are sensitive the errors of VHS tapes, be they natural or artificial (such as Macrovision).

- Hardware encoding alone is not necessarily an advantage, and ATI AIW cards are not software-only. They are a mix of hardware and software, when using ATI MMC. Part of the advantage of this system (used by Canopus and Matrox too, FYI), is the ability for the video capture setup to grow as the CPU generations grew. Your Hauppauge card, on the other hand, has remained pretty much unchanged for 5-6 years now, gaining no new features. The ATI AIW Radeon cards have been given quite a few options as the years passed, via ATI MMC.

- The Hauppauge cards are good, but if you want to point out flaws, those cards are not flawless either. Hauppage PVR cards are extremely soft at Half D1 resolutions, and they can have audio that is somewhat tinny. You paid a lot of the PVR-350, and the PVR-150 has issues. The PVR-250 tends to be the favorite, but lacks features found on both the PVR-350 and all ATI AIW Radeons.

- It is always suggested to shut down unnecessary software when capturing. Hardware encoders were not made for multi-tasking as much as they were created at a time when software and CPU was insufficient for basic operations. If you try to do other things while capturing, hardware card or not, you can screw up your video. I've seen it on Hauppauge captures even when the person who made the DVD insisted "I can do whatever I want while capturing".

- An AMD Athlon 2100+ isn't going to be "pushing" anything. That is a fast CPU. The only upgrade suggestion, assuming abbymat's specs are correct, is a secondary hard drive for captures, as OS drives hate to be the recipient of video material. Again, this is true of any capture card, and even encoders and editors in this case.

- The original poster asked for AVI captures. That excludes Hauppauge products. The only cards worth looking at are from ATI, Canopus and Matrox. The latter two are more expensive, and the lower-end Canopus are DV-only.

[Marvingj]

I have the Hauppauge 350 excellent, I also have the Ati 9600 the big difference is sensitive to macrovision. Both are super it depends on your preference.

[GMaq]

Hi,
I think the OP did alright for 50 bucks considering that that series was ATI's finest hour. Even the old AIW 128 Pro's could do great caps if they were used with MMC 7.6 or hacked with 8.7. To anyone else reading this thread the Plextor M402U is a good option for USB-2. It has Hardware MPEG-1,2 and DivX Encoding. The DivX encoder at it's max setting is comparable to PICvideo. It also has hardware deinterlacing that won't be everyone's cup of tea but works better than software filters IMO. Lastly it seems pretty resistant to macrovision issues.

[bendixG15]

Wasn't too long ago that a proposition was made to outlaw posts that began with ...... What is the best........??

After reading this tread, perhaps it should be reactivated.

[abbymat]

thanks for the detailed advice. i went in for lordsmurf's suggestion and got the ati all in wonder 9800 pro....got one off ebay $50, seems the best card available now save canopus which is very costly.

I have nothing against lordsmurf, but I am mystified at why so many people worship at the throne of ATI and act like there is nothing else. My recommendation (too late for you now) would have been to go with Hauppauge. I have their PVR-350 and it is a fantastic card, and even better, it has a hardware chip on the card to do the encoding. ATI relies on your system CPU for processing power - it does not do hardware encoding. Now that you have bought an ATI card, my advice to you is don't do anything at all on your PC while capturing video since you need to have as much processing power as possible dedicated to your on the fly software encoding. Too bad lordsmurf didn't tell you about that. I have serious doubts that this ATI is really better than anything Hauppauge sells, but you sure can't beat the price you paid. Your PC is going to be pushing the envelope for full frame DVD captures with your CPU, so for sure don't do anything else at all on it while capturing or you'll probably start dropping frames. That doesn't happen with hardware encoding because hardware encoding doesn't use your CPU for horsepower since it has a chip on the capture card dedicated to encoding. ATI does offer the ability to do AVI captures and Hauppauge doesn't, so that might one day be useful to you, although there's nothing wrong necessarily with capturing directly in MPEG-2. I do captures with my card directly in MPEG-2 at very high bit rates and then re-encode them down to whatever bit rate I need and I'm happy with the results. The ability to record in AVI format, if you want to do that, does give you an option that you might like. I'd say you got a good deal for the money, but just remember (this is the 3rd time I've said it) not to do anything on your PC while capturing to have best results.

i'm capturing to uncompressed AVI (huffyuv) and its my own recordings so no macrovision problems, so i guess the ati is okay. if u need harwdare encoding and have macrovision, then the hauppage would be better no doubt.

one other thing, i have only onboard graphics on the motherboard, so with the ati i now get a powerful accelarator card as well......kill two birds with one stone ! ))

[abbymat]

- All capture cards are sensitive the errors of VHS tapes, be they natural or artificial (such as Macrovision).

- Hardware encoding alone is not necessarily an advantage, and ATI AIW cards are not software-only. They are a mix of hardware and software, when using ATI MMC. Part of the advantage of this system (used by Canopus and Matrox too, FYI), is the ability for the video capture setup to grow as the CPU generations grew. Your Hauppauge card, on the other hand, has remained pretty much unchanged for 5-6 years now, gaining no new features. The ATI AIW Radeon cards have been given quite a few options as the years passed, via ATI MMC.

- The Hauppauge cards are good, but if you want to point out flaws, those cards are not flawless either. Hauppage PVR cards are extremely soft at Half D1 resolutions, and they can have audio that is somewhat tinny. You paid a lot of the PVR-350, and the PVR-150 has issues. The PVR-250 tends to be the favorite, but lacks features found on both the PVR-350 and all ATI AIW Radeons.

- It is always suggested to shut down unnecessary software when capturing. Hardware encoders were not made for multi-tasking as much as they were created at a time when software and CPU was insufficient for basic operations. If you try to do other things while capturing, hardware card or not, you can screw up your video. I've seen it on Hauppauge captures even when the person who made the DVD insisted "I can do whatever I want while capturing".

- An AMD Athlon 2100+ isn't going to be "pushing" anything. That is a fast CPU. The only upgrade suggestion, assuming abbymat's specs are correct, is a secondary hard drive for captures, as OS drives hate to be the recipient of video material. Again, this is true of any capture card, and even encoders and editors in this case.

- The original poster asked for AVI captures. That excludes Hauppauge products. The only cards worth looking at are from ATI, Canopus and Matrox. The latter two are more expensive, and the lower-end Canopus are DV-only.

i have athlon 2000+. 756 mb ram, two 7500 rpm disks......so for capturing uncompressed avi, thats more than enough of a system. thus the ati would be perfectly suitable.

btw, hauppage wont do avi captures ?

[lordsmurf]

The Hauppage PVR cards are MPEG hardware encoders. They only do MPEG.

[abbymat]

arrgh !....no use for me then ! I always capture to AVI, then compress later if necessary.

seems Hauppage are catering mainly to the "plug & play" video capture adventurers....

[ronnylov]

Actually I think a SAA7134 based capture card is a good solution for lossless avi captures. I use a Terratec Cinergy 400 TV card with VirtualVCR and I am happy with the results. I don't think you get much better results than that in this price range. It even works in Windows Vista Media Center, as well as in VirtualVCR.