DVD Bitrate Quality (VHS Conversion)

[Joz3d]

Hello. I am converting my VHS tapes to DVDs and using Pinnacle Studio 10 for this task. These are personal tapes of recoded tv programs. While learning this process, I thought that DVDs stored 120 mins of video as it says on them. Yet when I did the conversion I could only fit 60 mins. I realized this is due to the bitrate. The "DVD Quality" video capture in Studio has a bitrate of 7500 kbit (mpeg2 of course).

My question is, at what bitrate would you notice a difference in the quality? I would like the DVDs to look just like the VHS, and it *would be nice* to fit 2 hours on a single layer dvd. Is there a noticable difference between 7500 and say, 6000 kbit? 5000, 4000 kbit? It seems that in order to get my DVD up to 2 hours with a menu I need to have the video at a bitrate of like 3500 kbit. Will this look worse than the VHS?

I know I can test all this, but I'm hoping to curb some hours of testing by asking the seasoned professionals of their opinion here.

[mats.hogberg]

@3500 kbps, you'd go for 1/2 D1 (352x480)
You'll never get as good quality on DVD as the original VHS, as DVD mpg is lossy, so no matter, some quality will be lost.
7500 or 6000 shouldn't make that much difference IMO, but it all depends on the quality of your VHS mtrl. The lower q in, (noise & c) the higher bitrate you have to use, since mpg compression relies on similarities between frames, and lots of noise makes the similarities zero.
Only you can be the judge here - what's your qualty/size sweet spot?

/Mats

[GeorgeW]

I'm assuming you also have some sort of capture device to connect your video source to your computer? If so, do you have control over capture resolution and bitrate?

Since your source is VHS recordings, I think you could get "about equal quality" by using Half D1 resolution at about 4500kbps. Also check if your software has Dolby Digital audio (instead of LPCM audio which eats up alot of space -- of course if your audio is more important than video, then you might want to go with lpcm audio -- that's up to you). Using DD audio will leave you with more room for your video -- otherwise, as you said, you would be forced to drop to ~3500kbps video bitrate if you stick with lpcm audio (assuming the target 2-hour duration).

Regards,
George

[lordsmurf]

You'll never get as good quality on DVD as the original VHS, as DVD mpg is lossy, so no matter, some quality will be lost.

This is simply not true. I convert and improve VHS to DVD on a weekly basis. With the right equipment, it is very easy to clean up a VHS tape to a great degree, with a mix of analog and digital hardware, using smart setting and software filters.

Now then the phrase "using Pinnacle Studio 10" is all I needed to hear to know what the problem was. That software, quite frankly, sucks. It's probably doing all kinds of wacky things in the background. Don't dump it yet, but keep in mind that it may be part of your problem.

For two hours of video, use 352x480 at 5000k. That will flood the resolution with more than adequate bitrate, super saturation, and not create noise. Now to improve the image, you have to filter it with software AND use a good VCR to play it.

[Joz3d]

I'm assuming you also have some sort of capture device to connect your video source to your computer? If so, do you have control over capture resolution and bitrate?

Yes, a Dazzle DVC170 capture device. I have control over capture resolution and bitrate.

[Joz3d]

Now then the phrase "using Pinnacle Studio 10" is all I needed to hear to know what the problem was. That software, quite frankly, sucks. It's probably doing all kinds of wacky things in the background. Don't dump it yet, but keep in mind that it may be part of your problem.

For two hours of video, use 352x480 at 5000k. That will flood the resolution with more than adequate bitrate, super saturation, and not create noise. Now to improve the image, you have to filter it with software AND use a good VCR to play it.

I know Studio is not the greatest thing ever. But basically, I'm setting this up for my girlfriend who wants to convert her tapes to DVDs, and while she is generally knowledgable on computer use, she is not a video expert nor computer geek, so I'm looking for the simplest solution that can still look like the VHS. So far, the conversions she's done look great, but again, only 1 hour of video per DVD, would like to bump it up to two. 352x480... isn't that kind of a funky resolution, taller than it is wider? Thanks for your input.

[GeorgeW]

How many tapes does she have to convert? Another approach would be to buy a set-top dvd recorder unit (perhaps one with a hard drive). Record in the ~2-hour mode, and then find out how to import those recorded mpegs into your computer to add your own custom menus. Some of those recorder units do a pretty good job. My dvd recorder doesn't have a builtin hard drive, so I record to DVD+RW disc, and then import the mpeg from disc to my computer. But you might be able to import from a dvd recorder's hard drive (I don't know which units allow that, or if it's even possible).

Regards,
George

[thecoalman]

352x480... isn't that kind of a funky resolution, taller than it is wider?

The resolution is irrelevant as far as the playback aspect is concerned.