Which VCR is the best for Restoration?

[abbymat]

On tapes with noisy lines, there is no improvement.

[Undead Sega]

well, i dont know what quite to say here now.

although, hearing alot of the NV-FS200, heres one now:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/S-VHS-Videorecorder-Panasonic-NV-FS200-mit-Zubehoer_W0QQitemZ200...QQcmdZViewItem

also, i would like to note the panasonic vcr's i have in my house:

Panasonic NV-810
Panasonic NV-870
Panasonic Nv-F65

i would like to note that the NV-F65 looks almost just like the NV-FS200, as one of the features i notice if that they oth have Digital Tracking, which is somehting very fantastic, as my VCR handles almost alot of the crappy trackings on tapes in my house very well. and i wonder if this kind of tracking system is implemented in the later models like the HS860.

also, they all have dials, the NV-810 and 870 do have these old fashion dials, but they are not the best, and i disregard them alot as i find them very unsatisfying and also due they are old and doesnt give me the pictures i want. dont worry, i have used these VCRs since i was like 5 years old and so i know every single bit of them, includng the sounds they make and when i know when the tape is about to be chewed as well.

what i am looking for in hte VCR, which i expect to see from the HS860, is to get a very clean and pure picture from the tape, and in my theory, outputting VHS tapes using S-Video would still yield better results as it helps seperate the signal into the 2 and will handle them better as well, thus why i wish to see greatness in the best later panasonic models. i just love Panasonic, Sony has been a let down for to me, never quite them, and oly a couple years ago, or so, i realised what bastards they really are.

sorry for the language.

[StuR]

i wonder if this kind of tracking system is implemented in the later models like the HS860

Probably the same auto tracking, I've got 2 'Panasonic NV-SJ210' there goodish VHS's which where supposed to be to copy the old tapes. That went on hold due to obvious quality control issues. Comparing the HS860 it does a better job on some really bad tapes I've got (20yr old with mould on -after cleaned off- and one with a cut in the tape). That was without the TBC on, so that's based on general mechanism and probable tracking -which I don't think I adjusted-.
Panasonic used to have a button for 'CVC' on their better decks which is 'clear view control' or something. on the HS860 its just briefly mentioned and is on all the time. Its supposed to continualy monitor picture quality. Sounds good but wether its any use who now's. I imagine TBC and 3DNR are features that supercied this and Panasonic have moved on to highlight them.
In short I was glad to see that the HS860 was better than an average Pan. VCR and hence not a waste of money. But to stop picture role on these bad tapes at the really bad bits I needed the ext. full frame TBC/frame syncronizer I bought, Sorry for that bit of bad news.
JVC use B.E.S.T. which does a similar PQ monitoring, tracking colour ect. Don't rule them out, it's head to head on the VCR front, I don't think any others will match (unless you go to Pro editing suite quality - to big, expensive, for me, funny wires too!

although, hearing alot of the NV-FS200, heres one now:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/S-VHS-Videorecorder-Panasonic-NV-FS200-mit- ... dZViewItem

just looked at that, can't understand the german, prosuming it's working that's a hell of a bargain. Use and sell for £200!

[Undead Sega]

well hearing that, the HS860 seems superior to the NV-SJ210, ONLY by the fact it is newer, and thus it can do more or less exactly (or better) what the NV-SJ210 can do. as u have mentioned as well, the tracking system seems to be the same.

am i right? please correct me if im wrong.

also, to what u said amazed me, this was the fact that the Hs860 handles your almost destroyed VHS tapes very well, which surpises me very much. just imagine playing those tapes on another VCR (like a JC ) i couldnt imagine even getting a nice picture whatsoever. so that really encouraged me on getting a well working HS860, probably a HS960 if im lucky. as i assume cause of its editing features, it can handle the tape at a more sensitive level i.e. handling it very well indeed.

and about the TBC, because it is only half frame, isnt it possible to like replace it (i again assume its the chip) with a another which is a full frame?

[StuR]

also, to what u said amazed me, this was the fact that the Hs860

Well to be clear it plays them better but the ext. Full TBC/Sync was needed too. The cut tape still rolled at that point but less so with the 860. I have no way to compare this with a JVC 7/8/9000 series or an older Pana 1980/FS200/HS1000 ... (other than other posted pic's on this site)
so this far from gospel but like you I couldn't find much help for a none JVC svhs so risked it, so far it seems OK but don't expect the int. TBC to do everything.

[Undead Sega]

wel, if i am correct on ur saying, if Full frame TBC was used, it would technically be a better machine to the NV-SJ210?

but i would like some other people's opinion on the Pana 1980/FS200/HS1000, it would really help.

also another thing why i wanted a HS860 is because of SVHS ET, which i assumed if it can dig and try to put more quality on a VHS tape, maybe it could do when playing back VHS tapes in any way. right?

also, i dont know if i have mentioned this before, but is it possible to replace the TBC chip with a full frame TBC chip perhaps? please correct me if i am wrong.

[David K]

also another thing why i wanted a HS860 is because of SVHS ET, which i assumed if it can dig and try to put more quality on a VHS tape, maybe it could do when playing back VHS tapes in any way. right?

As I understand it SVHS ET just made it possible to do what hackers had been doing since the introduction of S-VHS, which was to record in SVHS quality on VHS tape. SVHS tape was only a higher grade of VHS tape and people discovered that other high grade VHS tape would work reasonably well at a lower cost. But to do this, they had to drill holes in the VHS tape to fool the SVHS decks to accept the tapes as SVHS tapes.

So there is nothing magic about JVC SVHS ET. The reason people like S-VHS decks for playback of regular VHS is that the decks tend to be made better overall (since S-VHS was always a high-end item) and the presence of the S-Video out allows for a cleaner output (although there is some controversy about whether it really makes that much of a difference for regular VHS tapes.)

[Undead Sega]

i too also thought about the fact would it actually make any difference using S-Video for regular VHs tapes, but to my opinion, i will always think yes it will, cause u to seperate the signal into 2, thus handling them more efficiently, but likewise, i wonder if there will really be a difference if u outputted video using RBG cables (hahahaha). this somehow reminds about the whole laserdisc thing, which i am also interested.

in any way, it does seem that the HS860 looks like the thing for me, but i am still wondering if u can replace the TBC in it?

also, can someome tell me for definate, is there really a difference between the 860 and 960? besides for the editing feature?

P.S. How comes is it that we only invloved the Panasonic and JVC vcr's in this?

[StuR]

but i am still wondering if u can replace the TBC in it?

nothings impossible but I very much doubt it. It would be a whole lot easier -and cheaper prob- to get an ext. device which was full frame/frame sync. When I decribed the inners I only said it was like a graphics card in a mother board as a desciption, didn't mean to cause confusion, it's complicated enough already!

And yer SVHS ET is the ability to use high grade VHS tapes for SVHS recordings. One of those features that where good and you payed for at the time but irrelevant now. But apparently it can indicate a sign of quality? who knows, not me.

[lordsmurf]

It's still nice to have S-VHS-ET from time to time.

[StuR]

By the way, if your interested I could post some comparison stills I've got.
Unforunatly it won't give details on the JVC 7/8/9000's as I've only got the 5955 but it's better than nothing I suppose.

[Undead Sega]

oh yes, i am still very interested.

please do so, it would help me greatly, and i would highly appreciate it as well.

i will look forward on seeing them.

[StuR]

Hopefully this is all working, it was a real pain to do so don't all start whinging about crappy panasonics ....
Hope it helps Undead Saga, one day I may figure out video clip posting. Don't hold your breath.
All captures are on a Sony RDR-GX300 at 1hr HQ, Thomson Gold Scarts (component)
Sony NR is off on all, only one uses the Sony proc. amp. to increase brightness and contrast by 1 (-3 to +3 range)
Pics saved as jpg setting 10 (max) on photoshop, best jpg compressor. Pic. hoster may re-compress, I compare the download for artifacts

The VCR's are :-
Sony SLV-E820
Panasonic NV-HS860
JVC HR-S5595
Samsung SV-640B

Description
Sony E820 was a good quality model with perminent NR (sony's Triligic 3 way process, 3DNR basically), the EDIT setting is the way to switch it off. OPC, optimal picture control, left on for all, can't see a difference with on/off.
Samsung is mid-late 90's average consumer model with the option to sharpen/soften +4/-4, or auto.
JVC is an entry SVHS model 2002, B.E.S.T. picture control (soft/sharp/auto/edit), image stabilizer.
Panasonic entry level SVHS 2002, TBC, 3DNR, CVC picture control (fixed), soft/sharp/auto.

Opinion - Shawshank: Origonal VCR, no MV, mid-early '90
All the pics look quite dull/pastel but was on TV not long ago and it was the same. Its a drab colour pallet to suit the film subject, a differnt film would have been better but it's what I had to hand. It was just to compare my VCR's for my use.
The one JVC was the best option I could find. Edit limited the BEST which could have been sharp or soft, but they looked worse. I can see the same pinky/rose tint over the image I've seen on other JVC TBC/NR recorders (admittedly via the limited pics on this site) which has an almost watery look to it. Not a JVC witch hunt but I've been disappointed by what I've seen with my own eyes. I prefer the Samsumg where the sky is blue and white- no pink. The sharp/soft are too high but they are extremes. Sony is about the same with a good NR. Panasonic about the same with NR good. Black line border on left is straight due to TBC not wavey. Soft setting and NR would have been better than sharp, sorry I didn't try.

Skin tone is most natural and clear on Panasonic


Home Recording: Rec. on Samsung 6yrs ago, cheap VHS, usual poor aerial/reception.
Shows NR's better job of clearing noise than soft setting, though not massively. Top left beach shows clearest NR's less arbitary smoothing. Soft and NR may be a good option too. Unfortunatly I do like the first pic due to the sharp definition on the urn and lion head but the grainyness will cause noisy moving images.

[lordsmurf]

In reference to http://img262.imageshack.us/my.php?image=shawscloseup02hj1.jpg

The Panasonic is clearly over-sharpening. It has halos on everything, plus a good amount of grain. That's terrible. The Sony, Samsung and JVC are performing similarly. The JVC is picking up more red chroma. The Sony is picking up more blue. And for whatever odd reason, the Samsung is more yellow. The Panasonic is also losing saturation of color.

None of them are perfect, but the Sony, Samsung and JVC are workable, with additional hardware, if you're going to be anal about color and contrast. They're all three pulling pretty faithfully from the tape, and not adding more noise or distortions.

And that is just the 5000-series JVC. The higher machines WILL perform better. The SR-V10U and the 3800, for example, no contest. The 5000-series is closer to a 3000 than an SR. The TBC will probably address the red shift pretty well, since the TBC affects the chroma.

[StuR]

Ah ha right on cue!

Well cheers for the input LordSmurf but generally I disagree, why, read on. As for the best image I'd say the Pan bottom left (Shawshank),
worst JVC top left - to blurry and red (not Red of course) and Pan bottom right over lightened.
The Sony and Samsung arn't bad but the Samsung doesn't show its best setting anyway.
These where a test I did when I first got the Pan 860 last year so it's more to do with testing things I was curious about. I should have tried some different settings but most was concerned with the Sony GX300's proc amp due to it's slightly darker/saturated captures. All pic use the same DVDR though.

The Panasonic is clearly over-sharpening. It has halos on everything, plus a good amount of grain

The halo puzzled me, it's on all the pictures and is only around Reds hat not 'everything'.
(That's exaggerating to make a point, which I think is that Panasonic err on the sharp-side for an unadjusted pic)

The Samsung on 'max soft' blurs out the halo most, but you can still see it if you zoom in x2.
This picture is way too soft to live with anyway. The JVC blurs it out to a lesser extent, but the picture is soft even on the edit setting.
The Pan with the NR on is not grainy (bottom left) it's fine, unfortunatly I didn't test NR+soft setting which would have been interesting. One rainy day maybe.

As for colours, I don't see the sony as blue, or samsung as yellow, to be honest they look like the Pan pretty much, the JVC does have that pink filter on though.

Retort end. _
That said I'm still on the look out for a 'good' JVC one day if the price is right. I've been interested in the JVC SR series which seem to be the PRO line. I'm guessing SR is Studio Record were as HR is Home Record. Whether there's any different inside is another matter. One big concern is that I don't want to have to shell out for a detailer to sharpen up a picture from a JVC VCR if they all (TBC/NR's) start off soft.

[StuR]

Undead Sega
hope this is of some help, not a perfect set of comparisons but it was for my own origonal use.
Most of my tapes are home recodings 99% and the example shows how the NR works, cut/paste in photoshop layers show comparison better.
As for the Panasonic's guts I was sorting out some old saved info and found this
http://hamradio-badarc.co.uk/video/vcreq/eqvcr4.htm
Bridgend Ham Radio, fantastic .
Anyway looking down the list:-
Panasonic NVFS100 G2 Deck S-VHS
Panasonic NVFS100B G2 Deck
Panasonic NVFS1B G2 Deck
Panasonic NVFS200 G2 Deck
Panasonic NVFS88 G2 Deck S-VHS
Panasonic NVFS90 G2 Deck
Panasonic NVFS90B G2 Deck
Panasonic NVFS95 G2 Deck

Panasonic NV-HD100B/EB K deck
Panasonic NV-HD610 NV-HD605 K deck
Panasonic NV-HD620 K deck
Panasonic NV-HD625 K deck
Panasonic NV-HD630 NV-HD628 K deck
Panasonic NVHD650 K Deck
Panasonic NV-HD650 K deck
Panasonic NVHD660 K-MECH
Panasonic NV-HD680 Z deck
Panasonic NV-HD700 K deck
Panasonic NVHD90 K Deck
Panasonic NV-HD90B K deck
Panasonic NVHS1000 K-MECH
Panasonic NV-HS1000B/EC K deck
Panasonic NVHS200
Panasonic NVHS800 K-MECH
Panasonic NV-HS800B/EC K deck
Panasonic NV-HS850EG/B/EC Z deck
Panasonic NVHS900 K-MECH
Panasonic NV-HS900 K deck
Panasonic NV-HS950

Anyway thats the info the FS200 (1980) looks to have a G2-deck which is the same as the others of that period. Swore I saw HS860 but the HS850 is there as Z-deck and the HS1000 (which seems to be classed as FS200's replacement) is K-deck. Interestingly lesser models like the HS660 are K-deck too, nearly bought one for a few quid recently, but no Svid/TBC, and no room!
Right basically mostly the same guts.

[StuR]

Hi I've lived with the Panasonic HS-860 now for a bit longer and after finding a better tape to test with did some more pics. I realise the Shawshank was a bit crappy now and I wanted a good tape so as to look for weak links.
So for anyone who likes looking at pictures here's some more.
HS-860>svid>Sony GX300
top pics are HS860 with 3DNR, TBC, soft picture setting
bottom 3DNR,TBC, auto picture setting


Unforunatly the GX300 has no 'usable' NR function so is still causing grainy pics, and darkening, even with a good tape. This is worse on poor tapes.

[vhelp]

@ StuR

I can't quite put my finger on it..

Q: but are these demo pics from a commercial tape, or did you pre-record the movie
onto the tapes from Cable TV, and then captured from those VCR's, for posting ??

In my opinion..

I think that they are both either too noisy or too filtered. Top, (IMHO) looks too
(filtered) smothed. And, bottom pic, looks too noisy. But, if I had to make a
choice (you won't like it) I would choose the bottom *noisy* pic, because it
seems to have more (original) detail in it, and I could probably do a better job
at filtering it out, later.

It would be interesting to see what I can get, when using the same setup, and
newer capture equipement setups on my new and upgraded pc.

I was planning on (or, hoping) for a weekend fun with experiments with my VCR
and Capture equipment.

-vhelp 4340

[vhelp]

Back in 2004/2005, I ran some demonstrations with the equipment listed, below.
Here's one example of the results that came out of it..

Source: VHS tape
Grade/Quality: Commerical VHS
Content: Movie -- "The Fifth Element"
Source Mode: SP
VCR: JVC S-VHS HR-S3910U
Connection: s-video
Capture Equip: ADS DVD Xpress
Image obtained: via VirtualDub-MPEG2
Image Compress: PNG

Comments: This demo was produced back in ~ 2004 by the above equipment,
in a thread I put together describing/reviewing/demoing the ADS DVD Xpress
hardware MPEG capture (external USB-2) card.

During the capturing, it was assumed that the ADS was MV-free. I found out later,
that this was not true. And, this source in the above demo, had exhibited the common
MV of the color brightness effect. However, I was still able to produce info for
this test (above) and provide the necessary results for the demo.

Back in those days, I was pretty amazed at the results of the DVD Xpress and had
even conjured up a registry hack to increase the bitrate, further. Through varous
testing, I was able to raise its bitrate levels to 20Mbit and even 30Mbits. If memory
serves me, that demo (the pic, below) was only using 8000-9000Mbits.



Other details:
** -- "The Fifth Element" -- released as Digitally Mastered
** -- HR-S3910U -- $169 purchased in 2001, brand new at CC
** -- DVD Xpress -- $69/$79 purchased 2004, at Wal-Mart
** -- VirtualDub-MPEG2 -- via copy from time-line, pasted into PS Pro
** -- PNG -- for lossless image reproduction (.jpg is too lossy)

-vhelp 4341

[StuR]

vhelp, thanks for the reply always interesting to hear others opinions - even if you don't like or agree with them
I'll try and answer some the pionts you make.

Firstly the L.of.Rings.pt1 VHS is an origonal copy - no MV protection.
I don't need to copy it 95+% of my tapes are old home rec. but I'm using as good an origonal to gauge the quality of the captures and equipment. The Sony GX300 rec. at HQ with its NR off, to minimise it's sub-prime rec. characteristics .

Of the two I prefer the Soft pic setting as the auto is to grainy. I wish the HS860 had auto/soft1/soft/soft3 settings or an old fashioned slider and I'd set it a little down.
It gets ever more complicated as the GX300 maybe contributing the the grain in the Auto setting so when I can get a better DVDRW with useful NR it may improve the Auto PQ?

As for the Soft setting detail is lost i.e. title sequence -tree bark, hair in frodo CU. But it stops the detail noise in the moving image. Grain in stills is deceptive as it gives the detail, but it shimers in vids.

You obviously prefer PC capture, but I just don't want to go down that road, I'd like to get the best I can from a direct DVDRW cap. I now this rules out a great deal of great software but it's not going to be practical for me.
--------------

R.E. Fifth Element Pic.
This is a very nice example, it looks to have a good balance between detail and noise. It actually reminds me of the Titanic caps that gshelley posted using his W-VHS > Tosh DR4. I was looking at some saved forum pages last night and those Pics where great.
What I mean is the fine 'airbushed' quality of the grain. From what I can see I'd be pleased with that.
Your HR-S3910U from what I can see is a US model of the SVHS JVC's that did not include the TBC/NR. Have you ever been able to compare it to these other models? Was this played using the Auto or Soft picture mode.

[Undead Sega]

i know it has been awhile, and i do apologize for that, but i thought i would take the liberty to do some quick cleaning on the auto settings of the LOTR caps.

the HS860 does seem yet very tempting as it does seem to give the purest image, and alot of the stuff like imperfections can be fixed easily with software, like Neat Video or MSU DeNoiser.

and some claiming on the pinkish on the previous caps on Shawshank, i assume that is a whitebalance issue, which again can be fixed.

please correct me if im wrong, and please tell me what u think of the processes, they were done on a crappy screen so i wont be able to see them clearly but tried what i can for now.

[Undead Sega]

[Undead Sega]

[Undead Sega]

[vhelp]

@ StuR

I was thinking.. your latest demo (above -- of July 05) seems to indicate that
you are using Composite (RCA) connections, rather than s-video. IMHO, a vcr
with s-video capability would provider greater picture detail, including noise
induced by the vcr.

Now, this is more or less, for advance oriented ..

Turning off all NR (noise reduction) features, including AUTO, is a more optimum
move. You see, when you *combine* the two (vcr's NR feature and capture
equip connection routes) you "hurt" the final video, in terms of picture detail
and quality. On my vcr, I always set the picture option to EDIT, because that
will release the sources *original* or as much of, its detail.. even if that may
include, induced noise through the vcr, somehow. I'm not saying that that is
what my vcr is doing, but its a safe bet that most, do.

Also, during this (capture) stage and setup (from above) you have to consider
your capture card (even, dvd recorder) 's built-in hardware filtering methods.
Both, capture card and dvd recorder contain some form of internal filtering
mechanism. Thus, if you turn on filtering in your vcr and then pass that through
to your cap card or dvd recorder, you will most likely double-filter, which may
possibly hurt your finished video. And it may more than likely be the case that
your capture card or dvd recorder will have no setting to control the filtering.

I realize that you may not be as vigelant about this, but I felt that I should at
least, worn you of the possibilities of *other* factors to watch for.

You obviously prefer PC capture, but I just don't want to go down that road, I'd like to get the best I can from a direct DVDRW cap. I now this rules out a great deal of great software but it's not going to be practical for me.

Hmm.. you might actually gain better results in terms of quality if you use the
pc route. I don't know your past history of that road you traveled through, using
your pc, but today, things are a little better, IMO. And, even back then, I was
using an Older System and USB-2 for that demo. And, on top of that, the device
(ADS) was not ment for my WIN98 (gold) setup -- the min req'mt was 98SE, but
I didn't have access to it. I had to sort of hack my way around WIN98 (gold) and
then finally, got it to work using ULead's capture software.

Anyway. I see your system specs is not far from mine. I think that you can prob
get away with a possible move in the USB-2 direction, using a hardware mpeg
setup. Its just a suggestion to consider. I realize that you seem pretty setteled
with the route you are currently using. Anyway.

I've already started playing around with my VCR and exploring the other possibilities
with my other capture cards/devices under my newer upgraded, XP Home system.
And, I'm actually pleased with the results so far. And so far, the test capture
card being tested/played around with is my ADS VideoXpress USB-2
captured box. It's a tiny little thing, but packs a lot out. I've been mainly testing
it out with ULeads VideoStudio 9SE over Cable TV as my video source
for the last month, maybe -- trying to raise the bitrate higher, through tweaking
around .. havin't figure it out, yet. Anyway.

But I am now playing around with my vcr and vhs tapes. I also wanted to note
with you that I do have a copy of the LOTR on vhs tape. I remember playing
around with it a few years ago, but not liking the results -- blaming mostly the
capture equip, then. I'm trying to find it, but no luck, yet. I also have the Titanic,
but haven't taken the plung to break open the shrink-wrap

-vhelp 4345

[davideck]

you have to consider your capture card (even, dvd recorder) 's built-in hardware filtering methods. Both, capture card and dvd recorder contain some form of internal filtering mechanism. Thus, if you turn on filtering in your vcr and then pass that through to your cap card or dvd recorder, you will most likely double-filter, which may possibly hurt your finished video.

I completely agree.

There is a difference between VCR viewing PQ (to a monitor) and VCR capturing PQ (to a capture device/DVD). Optimizing one does not necessarily optimize the other. The whole capture path must be considered.

There is also a difference between "restoration" and "preservation". Restoration is the attempt to fix the images once and for all, while preservation is the attempt to faithfully capture the video signal so that it can be fixed downstream and/or later.

vhelp, as good as your JVC image is, I think you would really appreciate a Panasonic AG-1970/80. They've been going cheap on EBay lately.

[StuR]

U Segas
At first on CRT screen your copies looked darker than the orig ones and I wasn't impressed. But saved pages as usual and veiwed on my laptop and they look the same brightness afterall and layering the pics over the orig in Photoshop and flicking they look much better. They have softness with retained detail, ie. CU frodo-the eyes are sharp a bit grainy in the skin?, titles -not so much deference, CU2 -smoothed and left more hairs in the beard, Landscape -to me best example.
It's not a huge difference this is all looking for small % differences, but its impressive what can be done using software, if you use Pshop to blur the auto images they don't look as good at all as your examples I'm puzzled how, but it dosen't matter, it just looks better and that all that matters.

The post starts by asking for the best VCR, I personally wouldn't claim to know that and there's likely to be no such thing. But if you where still interested in the HS860/960 let me know and I'll PM you some info tomorrow. Saw one for sale on web, didn't sell but could still be available 960 £65+Pp. actually considered buying but there's no point as it's essentually the same after double checking the manuals (inset edit and jog dial inc. on 960 same pict. controls though). No, I'm not recommending it, not qualified to do that just letting you know, I've seen a few HS1000's go for £100-140ish on ebay recently I don't know how they compare on PQ. The HS1000 can be considered a later version of the fs200 (1980/70) but once again be certain of their true comparision.

vhelp
I think they all should be SVid via a selectable scart lead (either Comp/svid/RGB) shawshank may have been Comp? haven't got it written down. Recent pics are all svid due to new cables.
I know what you mean by leaving all filtering off on VCR, but remember I'm not using PC software to enhance so its only the VCR or the DVDRW that sorts out PQ issues (about 300+? Vids to do!)
Soft setting is distructive on a good tape but I've much worse due to recordings from a poor arial and age. The HS860's 3DNR is very mild I've thought about it a good bit and I think it should be used. Honestly I've read alot of the debate on these issues and I think until I change DVDRW that's the position. Now I'm probably going to end up with a JVC DVDRW so the NR will be present and not optional (as with my Sony) so I'll need to do some tests on that setup if it ever happens.

I also have the Titanic,
but haven't taken the plung to break open the shrink-wrap

Probably best not to bother, it sinks This is the one I meant
https://forum.videohelp.com/topic287476-30.html

Davideck

There is also a difference between "restoration" and "preservation".

I'm thinking more restoration due to age but the L.of R copy would be more preservation I suppose as its a good Q example.

[StuR]

As vhelp said he uses a none-tbc/nr SVHS JVC, I thought I'd get the JVC S5955 svhs deck out the attic to test this sequence. It's was about £180/2002 (less in the shops?) so I'm prosuming it to be a good comparison to vhelps JVC HR-S3910U, let me know if that's wrong
I wasn't that impressed with the results and I'll post the image caps when I can.

Yesterday I managed to get hold of a svhs digipure JVC (HM-HDS1ek) so now I can compare the results with that too. First opinions on the playback would have to be mixed. Yes TBC/NR gives a smooth watchable picture but need to look again. I'll post pics using the JVC TBC/NR of the L.otRings and the earlier Shawshank clip to test for colour and over enhancement (haloing).

[vhelp]

@ StuR,

There are two types of recorded videos.. Commercial Releases and Home recorded.
As you read below, this pertains to those for commercial releases. Home recorded
is another beast. And, having a good vcr in either cases, is a wise move.

I found my LoTR vhs tape. And I have done some test captures with it and
various capture cards in my possesion. I'll post pics, later on, plus some comments
and things, too.

But, I just wanted to say at least one thing, before I close, here, about the this
particular (commercial movie) tape.. ok, maybe a bit more..

LoTR-- In terms of picture quality, it is a 'standard' type transfer to vhs tape.
Whatever that process is, the result is the same for most commercial movies transfered
onto tapes. And this has a particular play/part in one's video transfer quality attributes.

Titanic-- My version of this tape is the THX version or release. It is assumed
that anything that is gone through a THX, is considered a Digital Master of some
form or another. Both the Audio and Video undergo this process. I once asked how
this was done and for the details, but no-one could answer or *had* the answer,
at the time. So, I moved on. But it would be interesting to know how this process is
done. I would think it is critical to know this, in some aspect of the the video transfer
archival process we all partake in -- specially, if we start asking questions, later.

Now sometimes, either or will work out into great picture detail, etc., while in others,
they won't. It all depends on *who* done the transfer process. If times allows me,
later on, I could show some demos of both types. But..

To get the best picture quality from this source medium, you want to choose your
source wisely. But his is not a lugzury [<-- spelling] to us video enthusiasts. But
for those with best picture quality on commercial movies on vhs, you want to first
examine your vhs box cover (on the sides or bottom detail area) for the following:

--> stamped signature: Digital Master; Digitally Recorded; THX;

(These are just some examples, but there are others. Maybe I'll they those that I
do know, at a later time)

('Special Editions' and 'Widescreen Edition' don't count, (unless they stamped THX somewheres)
but they sometimes are done so well that they fool you.. even me, sometimes)

(And, there are many more stamped signature-type description, noting the vhs tapes
specialalities -- Transfer or Quality Attributes, etc)

** medium -- vhs; laserdisc; cabletv; satellite; antenna; hdtv; dvd recorder/player; etc.

-vhelp 4347

[lordsmurf]

There is also a difference between "restoration" and "preservation". Restoration is the attempt to fix the images once and for all, while preservation is the attempt to faithfully capture the video signal so that it can be fixed downstream and/or later.

I'm inclined to agree with this assessment.