DVD 101 Basics -- Speed

[ctdvd]

I've received some conflicting suggestions on this topic and wondered if anyone can shed some light. I suspect my problem is DVD speed and wanted to know if the DVD is manufactured at 16X, can you burn at,m lets say, 8X or 4X? If the target DVD player is having a problem because of speed would this resolve the problem? I have seen some DVD MFGs that indicate 1X-16X which would indicate the burn rate is flexible.

Thanks

[hech54]

What brand of media....what media code?

[ctdvd]

In this case it would be Memorex DVD+R 4.7 GB 120 Min 16X. That is all of the information appearing on the DVD.

[hech54]

Most 16x memorex media gets a fair or poor rating:
https://www.videohelp.com/dvdmedia.php?dvdmediasearch=Memorex&dvdmediadvdridsearch=&typ...+or+List+Media
and comes from a variety of sources(made by different companies - none of them very good - then stamped with memorex name). Stop buying memorsux media and chances are your problems will disappear.

[ctdvd]

Can you recommend a good all-around brand in this class?

[hech54]

These are my personal favorites...along with millions of other people:
8x
http://www.rima.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=R&Product_Code=1736-1...ode=TAIYOYUDEN

16x
http://www.rima.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=R&Product_Code=1762-1...ode=TAIYOYUDEN

Eventually I will be forced to buy 16x media....but I still prefer 8x and burning at 8x(or even 4x) even though my burner is capable of burning 16x. I've had ZERO coasters at 8x speed with the above 8x Taiyo Yudens.

[ctdvd]

I just burned at 8X speed using TMPG's DVD Author 3.0 and the Memorex 16X I mentioned earlier and will test it tonight on the DVD player I had problems with....do you know if there are any negative quality issues using a lower burn rate on a higher rated DVD? Thanks for the links, the prices are certainly better than the stores.

[Ibseeking]

I've had a recent experience having trouble buring a DVD (TDK DVD-R printable) using ImgBurn at the rated speed (16x). Created 4 coasters in a row. However I then reduced the burn speed to 4x and have now burned about 50 discs without a coaster. Don't know why it work, just happy it did!


Rick

[hech54]

I personally also HATE TDA's burning module. I only have the older version of TDA but on my computer it does not give me the option to select a burning speed....and I hate that.
I use ImgBurn , DVDDecrypter to burn ISO images and Prassi Ones to burn DVD folders, data CD's and DVD's and audio CD's.

[ctdvd]

TDA Version 3.0 does give you the option and my burner is not even listed on their approved burner list. Its a little tricky to catch but you must have the blank DVD in the burner before it will let you see the options otherwise it defaults to "Maximum."

Any of you guys know if stepping down the burn rate on a 16X DVD is good/bad for quality?

[hech54]

Any of you guys know if stepping down the burn rate on a 16X DVD is good/bad for quality?

Quality of the finished product?....no.
In my opinion changing burn speed is natural and should be
VERY high on the list of priorities. If you are consistantly having
problems burning certain media at it's highest rated speed...try slowing
it down. SO many people keep banging their heads against the wall by saying
"Well the package says 16x!!" and making coasters at 16x.
Either try another speed OR get rid of those freaking discs(not you personally)...your
burner either simply doesn't like them or they are crap.
Not all DVD's are created equal and neither are the burners. I've hardly ever had
media problems...not even with media that people HATE(like Ritek). I use them for everyday
backups(my kids DVDs)...nothing important...but only the 8x Riteks...the 16x suck on my LG burners and I suspect on ANY burner. Things change...and media changes too. What was once good (8x Ritek) are now shit(16x Ritek)....but my Taiyo Yudens have never failed me.
Changing speed won't effect the VIDEO quality...it will just change a good burn to a bad burn...or vise versa.

[ctdvd]

Considering Memorex technical support indicated that "you cannot burn at a rate slower than the DVD is designed...," and I did it successfully, this will be my Memorex swan-song. I just hate having a spindle of 100 DVDs become a throw-away.

[SLK001]

I have both 16X media and a 16X burner. However, I never burn faster than 4X. The faster that you burn, the higher the laser power that is needed to create the pits in the dye. A DVD doesn't have a series of "1s" and "0s", but a series of pits that, when reflected laser light is read by a photo detector, creates a modulated waveform that is then demodulated as a "1" or a "0". Since there is a finite amount of laser power available, the pits may be not be of high enough contrast between the surrounding dye to be distinguished as a pit when burned at a very high rate (thus a potential read error).

If you slow down the burn speed, the laser can dwell longer on each individual pit, thus giving it higher definition. Plus, it will need lower power. (And, your burner will last longer.) To demonstrate this to yourself, take a piece of printer paper and hold it horizontal. Now take a lighter and, with it lit, run it under the paper with the flame hitting the piece of paper and transverse the paper in one second or less. Observe the piece of paper - notice how it shows no signs of "burning". Repeat this again, but this time take 15 seconds or so to transverse the paper - notice how the paper is showing scorch marks. If you like, you can repeat this experiment with a propane torch. DISCLAIMER: DO NOT TRY THIS INSIDE A BUILDING! DO NOT TRY THIS EXPERIMENT IF YOU ARE UNDER 21 YEARS OF AGE OR IF YOU ARE STUPID!

In my mind, there is the possibility of "fading" of the pits over time, especially if they are marginal to begin with. People on this forum have complained that discs that they burned years ago are suddenly no longer playing. While other factors are in play here, my guess is that this fading is a major problem (and major factor) in the failing of these older discs. "Fading" occurs because the dye layer is not a solid. It's possible that parts of the dye layer that is underneath a pit is bleeding into the pit, lowering the contrast ratio of the pit. If enough of the bleeding occurs in enough areas, your disc will no longer work - this is especially true if your original pits were marginal, at best.

If I have learned one thing in the past six years on this board, is that cheap media isn't worth the time it takes to obtain and that the additional cost of high quality media is recouped by the longevity of your recordings - been there, done that. I always get a chuckle when posters tell us that they burn at 100X on the cheapest media and never have a problem. My experience tells me otherwise and I just sit back and wait until they start complaining that their discs are dying.

My advice? Buy the BEST media money can buy (NOT the most expensive - my current favorite is Taiyo Yuden 16X). Do your own research to find your "best" media. Burn at the SLOWEST speed that the manufacturer recommends. (On fast media, there is a "too slow" speed. To get speedy burns, the dye layer is getting thinner. If the laser dwells too long on a pit, it could "bloom" - or create a huge pit that could exceed the alloted area for a pit and possibly intruding into other tracks.)

[hech54]

Considering Memorex technical support indicated that "you cannot burn at a rate slower than the DVD is designed...," and I did it successfully, this will be my Memorex swan-song. I just hate having a spindle of 100 DVDs become a throw-away.

A lot of places (Rima included I think) offer sample packs containing various manufacturers...or at least types of DVD's. It might be worth your while...but in my opinion...just get Taiyo Yudens and be done with it and try to NOT be hung up on speed. If my camera was charged I'd upload a pic of me hugging my Taiyo Yuden 100 piece cakebox for inspiration. They are a bit harder to get here in "Yurp" and a bit more expensive....so I cherish them even more...

[oldandinthe way]

Although you have heard a lot of absolute positions taken about media quality, they are not universally accepted.

The behavior of media is highly dependant upon the manufacturer who's drive you are using and the state of its firmware and physical operation. If you are playing the disks you burn on one or more DVDplayers it is also dependant on the player's manufacturer and its age.

Some manufacturer's drives are more tolerant of differing media than others.

Drives with up to date firmware are more likely to successfully burn newer media than drives whose firmware has been allowed to become obsolete.

Drives which are capable of burning at the speed the media is rated for will get better results than drives which cannot run at the full rated speed.

Drives that are not suffering from laser fatigue and with clean lenses will perform better.

In my opinion, the first step when encountering problems with a particular brand of media is to determine whether your firmware is up to date.

The second step is to use the media lists on this site to determine if other folks who own the same drive can successfully use the media.

There is a lot of media in those lists which shows mixed results. They almost always divide by manufacturer when comparing success to failure. In the exceptional cases where owners of the same drive have differing results, the failures appear to be earlier firmware variations.

The recommendation to buy TY media does most often seem to work, but recent 16x TY media does not seem to meet with universal success. And not everyone wants to buy their media on line or pay a premium. In my experience you do not have to.

[hech54]

And not everyone wants to buy their media on line or pay a premium. In my experience you do not have to.

Thanks for the links, the prices are certainly better than the stores.

[ctdvd]

I tested the newly burned DVDs at 8X and it looks great. I will take SLK001's advice and burn at 4X as quality is everything to me and I think the added time to burn is no problem. Actually, the quality at 8X was damn good considering the source was an old VHS recordings.

Thanks!

[CogoSWSDS]

I've got some Philips DVD-R that a friend bought me to transfer VHS home movies to DVD for them. They are rated 1-16X (Media code is CMC MAG AE3 or something like that). I burned two coasters in a row at 8x (mind you these disks are rated to go to 16x). Dropped the burn speed to 4x and it burned and verified successfully with IMGBurn. Sad thing is at 8x they wouldn't even finalize - disk had no files on it!

CogoSWSDS

[SLK001]

Old ICBM Coordinates: 39 45' 0.0224" N 89 43' 1.7548" W. New coordinates: 39 47' 48.0" N 89 38' 35.7548" W.

I just noticed that you also provide helpful ICBM targeting coordinates for any flame war!

[ron spencer]

I never...ever burn at faster thatn 8x...why the rush? All media now (poor or not) can be burned exceedingly well at 8x....even memorex LOL.....marketing has 12x, 16x, 18x, 20x as cool....but then you need TOP notch burner and media. Everything rated for 16x is good at 8x now. so why rush...relax, have a flakey!!!