How do I fit 2hr video onto DVD?

[theewizard]

I use movie factory for editing the mpeg,

I have some Hi8 tape with old and odd sequences of the kids and vacation shots,

rather than start and stop the tape over & over , I just capture the complete tape , then edit and name the cuts, so I assemble them in a better fashion

womble mpeg wizard OR software will do the same thing, maybe better, but i have this and i am accustom to using it.

I am dl various untiles from here and experimenting more, someday i may totally change the way i do it.

[wayne86]

I use movie factory for editing the mpeg,

I have some Hi8 tape with old and odd sequences of the kids and vacation shots,

rather than start and stop the tape over & over , I just capture the complete tape , then edit and name the cuts, so I assemble them in a better fashion

womble mpeg wizard OR software will do the same thing, maybe better, but i have this and i am accustom to using it.

I am dl various untiles from here and experimenting more, someday i may totally change the way i do it.

thats cool. I mistakenly took you to mean Movie Wizard, the Ulead tool that came with the ADS device (Also Video Studio 9). A simple method of editing like you do is all I need as well. Ill check out Movie FActory when I get to that point.
thanks!

[GeorgeW]

thats cool. I mistakenly took you to mean Movie Wizard, the Ulead tool that came with the ADS device (Also Video Studio 9). A simple method of editing like you do is all I need as well. Ill check out Movie FActory when I get to that point.
thanks!

OK, I think I might understand what's going wrong. You are selecting the "Movie Wizard" from the main popup menu for VideoStudio. Instead of selecting "Movie Wizard", do you see an option for something called "VideoStudio Editor"? If so, select that option, then immediately go to SHARE/CREATE DISC. Add a previously captured mpeg file (from Capwiz). Click the gear icon on the bottom left corner, and make sure to click "Do not convert compliant mpeg files". Output to DVD Folders and test. The "Create Disc" module in VideoStudio is very similar to Ulead's MovieFactory. You might want to turn off motion menus just to speed up the compiling of your DVD.

Regards,
George

[wayne86]

thats cool. I mistakenly took you to mean Movie Wizard, the Ulead tool that came with the ADS device (Also Video Studio 9). A simple method of editing like you do is all I need as well. Ill check out Movie FActory when I get to that point.
thanks!

OK, I think I might understand what's going wrong. You are selecting the "Movie Wizard" from the main popup menu for VideoStudio. Instead of selecting "Movie Wizard", do you see an option for something called "VideoStudio Editor"? If so, select that option, then immediately go to SHARE/CREATE DISC. Add a previously captured mpeg file (from Capwiz). Click the gear icon on the bottom left corner, and make sure to click "Do not convert compliant mpeg files". Output to DVD Folders and test. The "Create Disc" module in VideoStudio is very similar to Ulead's MovieFactory. You might want to turn off motion menus just to speed up the compiling of your DVD.

Regards,
George

OK. thanks. I dont see a need to used Ulead. Capwiz burns the DVD just great. But I tried to use Ulead as you describe and in Video Studio 9 the Share tab comes up as you describe but when attempting to open a file it locks up forever. Ulead is nothing but a waste of time, I would rather invest the $ in decent video editor that has english as the primary language and basicially....works.

[thecoalman]

Ulead is nothing but a waste of time, I would rather invest the $ in decent video editor ...

You can certainly have your opinion but I've been using nothing but Ulead products since the start. I took the time to read the manual, I've read a lot here and gained a lot of knowedge other places..... A lot of it general video knowledge... end result: I understand what I'm doing and I don't have any troubles, their products do want I want them too. If you take the time to understand how it works and what it does just like you do with any application it will work for you too. If you want to sit there and expect it to do magically know what you want it to do then try something else.

thats what started the problems. Ulead. Its makes the files too large to record on a DVD

The above example is not the fault of the program. You've selected too high a bitrate, a basic knowledge of bitrate and how it affects filesize and you would know this. I'll stress the word basic, this is knowledge anyone working with video should know.

[rkruz]

Ulead is nothing but a waste of time, I would rather invest the $ in decent video editor ...

You can certainly have your opinion but I've been using nothing but Ulead products since the start. I took the time to read the manual, I've read a lot here and gained a lot of knowedge other places..... A lot of it general video knowledge... end result: I understand what I'm doing and I don't have any troubles, their products do want I want them too. If you take the time to understand how it works and what it does just like you do with any application it will work for you too. If you want to sit there and expect it to do magically know what you want it to do then try something else.

thats what started the problems. Ulead. Its makes the files too large to record on a DVD

The above example is not the fault of the program. You've selected too high a bitrate, a basic knowledge of bitrate and how it affects filesize and you would know this. I'll stress the word basic, this is knowledge anyone working with video should know.

I dont think so. THe Ulead product increased the file size 2x from an already captured file using the ADSs CapWiz. The ADS CapWiz will recorded and burn a DVD no problem with 2hr 10 min of tape capture at 720x480 resolution and 8M rate. Ulead on the other hand...choke......having to be an engineer to simply copy a tape to DVD is not a good characteristic for a consumer product. See previous posts in this thread on Ulead. Apparently its a common fault of the program to bloat the files so they will no longer fit on a DVD. I contacted ADS tech support (Ulead came with their product) and they said they are aware of the defect and recommended that a better choice of software would be the Adobe. That from the seller is very telling about the Ulead product. I still need to do some simple edits to remove the tail end of recorded noise, so rather then waste hours and hours and hours trying to figure out how to get Ulead to work, Ill pay some money for a decent video editor....that using proper english BTW.

[thecoalman]

I dont think so. THe Ulead product increased the file size 2x from an already captured file using the ADSs CapWiz. The ADS CapWiz will recorded and burn a DVD no problem with 2hr 10 min of tape capture at 720x480 resolution and 8M rate. Ulead on the other hand...choke......having to be an engineer to simply copy a tape to DVD is not a good characteristic for a consumer product. See previous posts in this thread on Ulead. Apparently its a common fault of the program to bloat the files so they will no longer fit on a DVD. I contacted ADS tech support (Ulead came with their product) and they said they are aware of the defect and recommended that a better choice of software would be the Adobe. That from the seller is very telling about the Ulead product.

Again the program is not at fault, the problem lies between the chair and the keyboard. The program is only doing what you're telling it to do. If you go into a restaurant and order a hamburger you expect a hamburger correct? If you drop a file into the program and are using the default settings it's going to use the default settings cause that's what you ordered it to do so to speak. I would expect any program to work that way and not abritrarily decide what I want. FYI ADS tech support is blowing smoke up your ass, you can fit almost 8 hours of video or anything in between on single DVD if you want using VS... it all comes down to bitrate which as I mentioned above is something you need a basic understanding of if you want to work with any video application. I would figure this wouldn't be very hard to understand but apparently not.



--------------
This BTW would be impossble on a single layer DVD....

The ADS CapWiz will recorded and burn a DVD no problem with 2hr 10 min of tape capture at 720x480 resolution and 8M rate

[Nelson37]

I use Ulead for a lot of useful things, but not for MPG editing.

A good, free, simple editor that works well with captured files is MPG2CUT2. Set it to output demultiplexed and use the output with Gui4DVDAuthor, which is also good, free, and simple.

[rkruz]

I dont think so. THe Ulead product increased the file size 2x from an already captured file using the ADSs CapWiz. The ADS CapWiz will recorded and burn a DVD no problem with 2hr 10 min of tape capture at 720x480 resolution and 8M rate. Ulead on the other hand...choke......having to be an engineer to simply copy a tape to DVD is not a good characteristic for a consumer product. See previous posts in this thread on Ulead. Apparently its a common fault of the program to bloat the files so they will no longer fit on a DVD. I contacted ADS tech support (Ulead came with their product) and they said they are aware of the defect and recommended that a better choice of software would be the Adobe. That from the seller is very telling about the Ulead product.

Again the program is not at fault, the problem lies between the chair and the keyboard. The program is only doing what you're telling it to do. If you go into a restaurant and order a hamburger you expect a hamburger correct? If you drop a file into the program and are using the default settings it's going to use the default settings cause that's what you ordered it to do so to speak. I would expect any program to work that way and not abritrarily decide what I want. FYI ADS tech support is blowing smoke up your ass, you can fit almost 8 hours of video or anything in between on single DVD if you want using VS... it all comes down to bitrate which as I mentioned above is something you need a basic understanding of if you want to work with any video application. I would figure this wouldn't be very hard to understand but apparently not.



--------------
This BTW would be impossble on a single layer DVD....

The ADS CapWiz will recorded and burn a DVD no problem with 2hr 10 min of tape capture at 720x480 resolution and 8M rate

When ADS tech support, the company that packaged the Ulead product with their digitizer ......

A) states Ulead V9 has a known defect that it unecessarily doubles the files size and.....
b) recommends to use another product, in this case Adobe.

....along with the other confirming experiences noted in this thread.

even a shipping receiving clerk as yourself would have to agree. Maybe V10 fixed the defect....and maybe they did it on purpose to pay for the upgrade. Id rather pay for something decent that has english as a first language

[rkruz]

I use Ulead for a lot of useful things, but not for MPG editing.

A good, free, simple editor that works well with captured files is MPG2CUT2. Set it to output demultiplexed and use the output with Gui4DVDAuthor, which is also good, free, and simple.

great tip. Thanks. for free......I wouldnt even pay......for free......for the Ulead product.

[rkruz]

Note how someone compared the free editor to the Ulead product.......

Great program! A lot better than the hit-and-miss (and lost time) cut of beginning and ending scenes of recorded mpeg file with Ulead VS7 SE. The cut looks good on VS7 preview, but when the saved file is played back with MPClassic or VLC Player the cut is not clean with unwanted scenes included.

Posted March 28, 2006 by v-sharp. Tool version alpha using OS WinXP
Ease of use 9 of 10 Functionality 9 of 10 Value for money 10 of 10 Overall score 9 of 10

[thecoalman]

When ADS tech support, the company that packaged the Ulead product with their digitizer ......

A) states Ulead V9 has a known defect that it unecessarily doubles the files size and.....
b) recommends to use another product, in this case Adobe.

Taking the advice of tech as the final word is like taking the advice of a Best Buy salesman as the final word, chances are they know very little about video. Most of these larger companies hire people off the street, sit them in front of computer with a knowledge base and give them a phone. That's besides the fact it's not their job to hold your hand and teach you how to use the software which is the reason they are giving you the line of bullshit they are.

....along with the other confirming experiences noted in this thread.

You have one person that has the same issue, he like you doesn't want to learn. There is thousands of people that have sucessfully done what you are trying to do if that tells you anything, they can't all be wrong. Have you by any chance tried the tip given by GeorgeW? I know you didn't because he's very famialir with VS and I can gurantee that if you did what he said it would work.

I'll explain this one last time, maybe ...just maybe, it might sink in. If you set a bitrate of 8000kbps that's what you're going to get. Some applications like VS have better features that allow you to not reencode the already compliant video BUT and here's where you're making your mistake... you're not doing that. In simple english so you can understand you're asking for a hamburger but expecting to get a chilli dog and expect the waitress to be some kind of mind reader and know that.

No matter which software you use... I'm going to repeat that again.. No matter which software you use.... whether it's Adobe, pinnacle, TMPGenc or any othe encoder on the planet if you set it to encode a 8000kbps video it's going to give you a 8000kbps video. If you want to be ignorant to that fact or your mind is too simple to understand that then I don't what to tell you. As I've said above this is basic knowledge you need when using any encoding software.

8000kbps is the birate that will give you 1 hour on a sigle layer DVD, this is NOT a flaw and anyone that tells you so is full of shit. You can set this to anything you want such as 1000 which would give you almost 8 hours on a DVD... Is that a flaw in your eyes too? If you don't want to take the time to learn how to use something don't blame the software, blame yourself.

[Cornucopia]

Slightly OT,

I know some of you guys like Ulead products, but GEEZ! If I saw an encoder that said "4mbps" is considered "Best Quality", I'd steer clear of it.

Back on topic,

There are a number of tools to do what you want, you just have to know WHAT you want.

You want 2 hours on a SL DVD? Your video bitrate should be around 4.3-4.5MB(maxed average). 1 hour? Double that. Audio usually probably 224kbps (AC3 or MP2).
Make sure you set your authoring projects up for this---DON'T let it give what it wants to give you--it doesn't know what you want, YOU DO. Change/create a template if you have to. Remember, these are stupid computer programs. Don't act as stupid as they are (by blindly relying on them).
**apologies in advance to anyone who thought I was calling them stupid in particular**

Scott

[thecoalman]

Slightly OT,

I know some of you guys like Ulead products, but GEEZ! If I saw an encoder that said "4mbps" is considered "Best Quality", I'd steer clear of it.

That screenshot was from the hardwares capture program, All the Ulead products I've had use 8000 or 6000kbps for the high quality preset. You can edit the preset or or make your own. The encoding options are very flexible, you can even create use non-compliant resolutions and bitrates if you want. That's probably half the trouble in this thread, VS offers many advanced features instead of catering to the crowd expecting a one-cick wonder.

[lordsmurf]

I've NEVER seen a Ulead product start with less than 6000k for any settings. Usually they are 8000k and 720x480. I encode my menus to 6000k in DVDWS2 (all authoring software encodes your menu assets to the final product, which most folks forget).

[wayne86]

When ADS tech support, the company that packaged the Ulead product with their digitizer ......

A) states Ulead V9 has a known defect that it unecessarily doubles the files size and.....
b) recommends to use another product, in this case Adobe.

Taking the advice of tech as the final word is like taking the advice of a Best Buy salesman as the final word, chances are they know very little about video. Most of these larger companies hire people off the street, sit him in front of computer with a knowledge base and give them a phone. That's besides the fact it's not their job to hold your hand and teach you how to use the software which is the reson they are giving you the line of bullshit they are.

....along with the other confirming experiences noted in this thread.

You have one person that has the same issue, he like you doesn't want to learn. There is thousands of people that have sucessfully done what you are trying to do if that tells you anything, they can't all be wrong. Have you by any chance tried the tip given by GeorgeW? I know you didn't because he's very famialir with VS and I can gurantee that if you did what he said it would work.

I'll explain this one last time, maybe ...just maybe, it might sink in. If you set a bitrate of 8000kbps that's what you're going to get. Some applications like VS have better features that allow you to not reencode the already compliant video BUT and here's where you're making your mistake... you're not doing that. In simple english so you can understand you're asking for a hamburger but expecting to get a chilli dog and expect the waitress to be some kind of mind reader and know that.

No matter which software you use... I'm going to repeat that again.. No matter which software you use.... whether it's Adobe, pinnacle, TMPGenc or any othe encoder on the planet if you set it to encode a 8000kbps video it's going to give you a 8000kbps video. If you want to be ignorant to that fact or your mind is too simple to understand that then I don't what to tell you. As I've said above this is basic knowledge you need when using any encoding software.

8000kbps is the birate that will give you 1 hour on a sigle layer DVD, this is NOT a flaw and anyone that tells you so is full of shit. You can set this to anything you want such as 1000 which would give you almost 8 hours on a DVD... Is that a flaw in your eyes too? If you don't want to take the time to learn how to use something don't blame the software, blame yourself.

oh geez. you got too much time on your hands, especially if your trying to figure out Ulead

[Cornucopia]

Ok thecoalman and lordsmurf, you've eased my mind somewhat.

But, I'm happy with what I'm currently using anyway (AVID, Vegas+DVDA, Maestro, etc). It's good to know WRT further recommendations, though.

One thing I AM impressed with for Ulead is the "lead" they're taking with reasonably priced tools for HD authoring...

Scott

[thecoalman]

One thing I AM impressed with for Ulead is the "lead" they're taking with reasonably priced tools for HD authoring...

All their stuff is reasonably priced, if you took VS and removed all the extra features like the capture and authoring component you'd still be left with a reasonably priced editor with MPEG and AC3 encoding. The editor in VS is worth the price alone, it's not prosumer grade but it's not strictly consumer either. It falls in between, probably comparable to many of the features you would expect from pro applications 3 or 4 years ago , multiple video and audio tracks, overlays, chroma keying, etc... just to name a few.

It's certainly not comparable to the applications you listed but for a little more than $100 you wouldn't expect that it would be.

[GeorgeW]

I've NEVER seen a Ulead product start with less than 6000k for any settings. Usually they are 8000k and 720x480. I encode my menus to 6000k in DVDWS2 (all authoring software encodes your menu assets to the final product, which most folks forget).

@lordsmurf
There are several authoring programs that can take pre-encoded dvd-compliant motion menus along with externally defined subpics for menu buttons (or even just highlight images for menu buttons). These WOULD NOT re-encode dvd-compliant assets -- they would use them "asis" in the final DVD.


Back OT:

Regarding the tech-support person that said "Ulead V9 has a known defect that it unecessarily doubles the files size", that person was giving wrong info. VS9 has the ability to use your captured mpegs "asis" (no re-encoding) -- you just have to make sure you use the correct setup/options in VS9. Also, ADStech offers other hardware that came bundled with Adobe software, so you might have gotten a tech-support person who is more familiar with Adobe than Ulead -- hence the recommendation to try Adobe. I don't think that was good advice coming from their support line -- I will mention it to Mike McCoy the next time we talk or exchange emails.

btw, there are some download drivers/patches on the ADSTech.com support pages-- and also some links to using VS9 software (video tutorials).

Regarding the 4mbps being "Best Quality" -- as thecoalman mentioned, it was from the ADSTech software CapWiz (not Ulead). I suspect it was a leftover from their first USB Instant DVD devices that captured via USB 1.1 (USB2 was just getting started) -- at that time the video went through USB, and the audio was connected to your computer's sound card. 4mbps was near the max for those units, and CapWiz was a simple interface program for captures. They have since come out with multiple USB2 mpeg encoders -- which allow for both video and audio to be captured via USB2, and much higher bitrates when you use the CUSTOM options. They also made many improvements to CapWiz over the years (I helped design some of the screens found in several versions of the CapWiz software) -- but CapWiz does not have as many features/options as some of the other software they bundle with their units (like VideoStudio or Premiere Elements, etc...).

Regards,
George

[wayne86]

I've NEVER seen a Ulead product start with less than 6000k for any settings. Usually they are 8000k and 720x480. I encode my menus to 6000k in DVDWS2 (all authoring software encodes your menu assets to the final product, which most folks forget).

@lordsmurf
There are several authoring programs that can take pre-encoded dvd-compliant motion menus along with externally defined subpics for menu buttons (or even just highlight images for menu buttons). These WOULD NOT re-encode dvd-compliant assets -- they would use them "asis" in the final DVD.


Back OT:

Regarding the tech-support person that said "Ulead V9 has a known defect that it unecessarily doubles the files size", that person was giving wrong info. VS9 has the ability to use your captured mpegs "asis" (no re-encoding) -- you just have to make sure you use the correct setup/options in VS9. Also, ADStech offers other hardware that came bundled with Adobe software, so you might have gotten a tech-support person who is more familiar with Adobe than Ulead -- hence the recommendation to try Adobe. I don't think that was good advice coming from their support line -- I will mention it to Mike McCoy the next time we talk or exchange emails.

btw, there are some download drivers/patches on the ADSTech.com support pages-- and also some links to using VS9 software (video tutorials).

Regarding the 4mbps being "Best Quality" -- as thecoalman mentioned, it was from the ADSTech software CapWiz (not Ulead). I suspect it was a leftover from their first USB Instant DVD devices that captured via USB 1.1 (USB2 was just getting started) -- at that time the video went through USB, and the audio was connected to your computer's sound card. 4mbps was near the max for those units, and CapWiz was a simple interface program for captures. They have since come out with multiple USB2 mpeg encoders -- which allow for both video and audio to be captured via USB2, and much higher bitrates when you use the CUSTOM options. They also made many improvements to CapWiz over the years (I helped design some of the screens found in several versions of the CapWiz software) -- but CapWiz does not have as many features/options as some of the other software they bundle with their units (like VideoStudio or Premiere Elements, etc...).

Regards,
George

this guy got WAY too much time on his hands. He is obsessive about justifying his poor choices.

[wayne86]

I just forced myself to make it through a Ulead edit and burn.

30 minutes to compile. (not including a freeze up requiring reboot and a 2 crashes)
30 minutes to burn. And oh did I mention that the 2hr 8mm tape would not fit after Ulead got done with it. It was fine before Ulead touched it. I can see whey ADS is recommending Adobe.

Yea, I think Adobe is $100. It would have already saving me money to have used it versus the Ulead thing....even if my time was only minimum wage to doink around with Ulead to find ways to get it working at a mediocre level..

[lordsmurf]

There are several authoring programs that can take pre-encoded dvd-compliant motion menus along with externally defined subpics for menu buttons (or even just highlight images for menu buttons). These WOULD NOT re-encode dvd-compliant assets -- they would use them "asis" in the final DVD.

Yeah... I was mostly thinking in terms of what somebody making this kind of post would be buying. I'm aware the something like DVD Studio Pro and Scenarist and a few others have a few more choices available to them.

[thecoalman]

wayne86, is that a 1.8GHZ P4 you're listing as the CPU under your computer specs? I think I may know exactly what the problem is, there's pecurality to using the 1.8 P4's that you may not be aware of.

[MOVIEGEEK]

I've been a Ulead VideoStudio fan since v6,the SmartRender feature is nice and the audio is always in sync.
BTW:the 'SE' versions that come with capturecards are stripped down versions,to be fair you should try a full version.

[wayne86]

wayne86, is that a 1.8GHZ you're listing as the CPU under your computer specs? I think I may know exactly what the problem is, there's pecurality to using the 1.8 P4's that you may not be aware of.

Thats true, its my PC, P4, 1.8Ghz, 786m. But Im using my Sons PC for the video editing which is a p4, 3Ghz, 1Gig Ram. I did try it on my PC at first and quickly gave up as it was quicksand slow. Maybe thats the behaviour you are referring to on the P4 1.8.

[wayne86]

I've been a Ulead VideoStudio fan since v6,the SmartRender feature is nice and the audio is always in sync.
BTW:the 'SE' versions that come with capturecards are stripped down versions,to be fair you should try a full version.

Yea, I figured the "Special" part of the SE version is its got the good stuff removed so you will buy the full up version. I think it was $59 for version 10? I dont know, I guess I would rather invest $100 in Adobe.

[thecoalman]

And oh did I mention that the 2hr 8mm tape would not fit after Ulead got done with it.

Well the reason I asked about your CPU Wayne is because if you were using a 1.8 that task most likely could not be accomplished with a 1.8 in that time frame. I just did a quick test with my p4 3.0 ghz and it took it about 30 seconds to transcode a 4000kbps video to 5000kbps using the same resolution [edit: 5 minutes in length] , changing the resolution will increase this time significantly. video so there's a definite possibility you are still not the setting the software up properly. Go back to what George wrote and try that, if it still doesn't want to fit your file is too big. According to the calculator here: https://www.videohelp.com/calc.htm It has to be under 4400 kbps . Personally for VHS IMO that is not enough to begin with.

30 minutes to compile. 30 minutes to burn.

Assuming you are transcoding the material my calculator tells me that's about 13 minutes for transcoding, that leaves 15 or 20 minutes to compile a disc and is not that long. It can be speeded up with a faster computer. If you have two drives, source from one drive and set the temp files to another drive, this can be found in the options.

Burn rate is relative to your DVD burner, export as ISO and use something else like Imgburn but that most likely isn't going to speed it up much.

Yea, I figured the "Special" part of the SE version is its got the good stuff removed so you will buy the full up version. I think it was $59 for version 10? I dont know, I guess I would rather invest $100 in Adobe.

I don't know the difference between the SE and the full version but most of the major features should be included I would think smartrender would be one of them because it speeds the process up quite a bit if you use it correctly. What I do know won't be included is things like all the transitions, some menu templates and other extras. As far as the transitions go as long as you have the crossfade one that is all you really need, IMO.

As far as purchasing Adobe you are going to run into these problems no matter what software you use until you learn how to use it.

[wayne86]

Ok. thanks. Ill keep plugging away.

[thecoalman]

The "recompile" is where the DVD files are created and assembled including you menus and other such niceties, MPEG2 files are (but aren't) DVD files. New files have to be created no matter what software you are using SO AGAIN YOU ARE BARKING UP THE WRONG TREE BECAUSE YOU HAVE NO CLUE. You're making assumptions based on no knowledge. Try taking your file and make a copy of it from one folder to another and see how long it takes.

then make the file even larger when the purpose of the edit was to reduce the file size?

If your file properties are still changing at this time considering all the information given to you then the fualt lies solely with your inability to understand. The directions GeorgeW gave above could followed by my 5 year old nephew,... As he suggested start with a msall clip and work your way from there. If not go try some other software but your quickly going to learn that it's not the fault of the program.

[thecoalman]

Im not making a DVD file. Im simply cutting of the endof the .mpg file and saving.....as a mpg file, without any of the other stuff (that also doesnt work with the Ulead abortion). The Ulead abortion insists on changing the format and recompiling and ruining what was otherwise a fine file.

Dude just give up, I mean the whole idea including using other software. Save yourself some grief and go play checkers.