How to COPYRIGHT protect?

[jimcornetet]

I'm in charge of recording a HUGE HighSchool Musical Production and now about to hand out 50-100 copies of the Show at $20 a pop. I'm using Sony Vegas 7 / DVD Architect 4.0 to author and burn the DVDs onto TAIYO YUDENs.

How can I COPYRIGHT these DVDs so they CANNOT be easily be copied by a DVD-buring software like Nero and the like..... when someone with a legit copy wants to start burning copies for grandparents, uncles, sisters, friends, etc. I want to FORCE these people to come to me and pay my $20cost and not make illegal copies. I dont want to involve myself in any MACROVISION crap or anything that will mess around with playback on DVD players. Just software to encrypt / protect it being copied.

Anything out there that's easy?????

[TooLFooL]

no

[MOVIEGEEK]

The only way to add CSS or Macrovision is to have them pressed professionally.

[redwudz]

What TooLFooL said. There is no simple or inexpensive way to protect a burned DVD from copying. The good news is that the majority of the people that may buy it don't know that. I would suggest you sell them all at once and get your costs back before someone does decide to distribute it for free.

This has been covered many times in this forum. Do a forum search to see some posts on the subject.

[jimcornetet]

I'm wondering if you made the all the files "HIDDEN" within Windows.... if that would screw-up software like Nero?

Not looking to stop these people...but if I can slow them down, maybe they'll get frustrated and quit.

Has anyone tried changing the files within Windows to "Hidden"????

[thecoalman]

I would suggest you sell them all at once and get your costs back before someone does decide to distribute it for free. .

Is about the best advice you're going to get. there's thread that stickied in one of the forums that discusses ways you can physically damage the disc which should prevent common applications like Nero from failing but other than that it can't be done. Period.

[Cornucopia]

First, you'd have to be able to burn separate from authoring. Your burning app would have to be able to SET the hidden flag, without this breaking the spec. I'm not sure if this is possible. The DVD-Video application spec requires a number of constraints on the microUDF file structure of your disc--this may be adding a "feature" beyond what is available to be adjusted.

Let's say for a second that you can do it...

Now you've got this disc. Yippie, it has hidden files!

My guess is:
1. It'll play OK in settop players. (because of sector-accessing firmware)
2. IT WON'T PLAY IN SOFTWARE PLAYERS very bad for some of your patrons.
3. Some rippers won't see the files and will be prevented from ripping, but other apps (ISOBuster), won't have any trouble seeing hidden files and will easily copy the files to a hard drive, where the can be "un-hidden", and burned anew.

Again, if somebody wants to do it, your roadblock can be gotten around.

Change your business model!
Add great graphics on the labelling and packaging and "booklets", or extra picture files (in a separate folder) that a standard ripper won't automatically copy, or a website that your "individualized registration" allows extra features to be temporarily (for one/limited time only) downloaded). Get them hooked on the bonus that your version could have that a "generic" copy may not have.

Scott

[TooLFooL]

read.... https://forum.videohelp.com/viewtopic.php?t=220887

[lordsmurf]

Read the sticky:
https://forum.videohelp.com/viewtopic.php?t=223640

The answer is: NO!

If somebody wants to copy it, they will.

You can always use DVD+R DL media and maximize the bitrate to fill a disc, as well as add all kinds of good extras. If it looks worth paying for, people will buy it. Especially parents with kids.

[Rich86]

no

What you need to do is fill the dvd with unreadable sectors, 100's of vts's that mean and contain nothing, ifo's that create misdirections and nonsense pointers that you hope will foil a computer program but not some poor slobs dvd player, and then be able to sleep at night after dumping these completely non-dvd-standard discs on your friends, neighbors and customers.
Then you can even call yourself a four letter word - something like "sony".
Oh, by the way, they will still be able to be copied by folks who actually know what they are doing.

[jimcornetet]

We can put a probe on MARS three zillion miles away and have a robot roam the planet for months if not years... YET we CANT have a SIMPLE program built-into our software to help protect our copyright????????? This is all very very STUPID to me!

This HS Musical has taken me about 200+ hours to edit with four Sony PDX10 cameras.... its a 2hr 37min play.... and its a really really GREAT play.... something I'd expected to see in a traveling Broadway Series.... the HS has about 1,500 students to choose from and the Casting is TopNotch. The Stage and Lighting was actually built by two guys who work fulltime for the Cincinnati Downtown Aronoff Performing Arts Broadway Series Company.

Anyway.... with all these 200+ hrs into this project I dont want little 15yr old Johnny doing an underground DVD burning party to send off to all the Kids grandparents and sell for $10 so he can go buy his monthly supply of Drugs.

[lordsmurf]

So what? Your production is peanuts compared to Hollywood, and they can't protect anything either.

I think you have control issues. Somebody can copy your work, deal with it. Be sure you get what you want in advance, and there should not be any problems. Plenty of companies do just fine.

[jimcornetet]

I think you have control issues. .

WTF....If anything I have CASH issues....Although I did jumped into this thing as "Volunteer-work" and for exposure to lead to Wedding Videos (at $2,000+ a Wedding).

YOU go put in 4+ hrs every weeknight and 6+ every weekend for an entire MONTH...and see if you arent worried about some little $%^&ing 15yr old ripping off your work

The School has already approached me about next year (since they've seen my rough-cut DVD this year with multicam-angles and super-closeups and they "fall-off-their-seat" LOVE IT)..... I'm buttering them up to ask for a Retainer fee of $1,000 for next year plus a small percentage of DVD sales....which should put the project at $1,500 - $2,000..... much better deal than the deal we cut this year.

One thing I've learned with HS plays.... the parents will PAY just about any price you lay out there is your DVD is high quality and you capture great close shots of Suzie singing her butt off. I can be a great "gig" if I can keep the copy-infringers away.

[lordsmurf]

YOU go put in 4+ hrs every weeknight and 6+ every weekend for an entire MONTH...and see if you arent worried about some little $%^&ing 15yr old ripping off your work

Narcissism, anybody?

Seriously, either get over it, or just back out of the video business altogether.

Your question was answered. What you want is impossible. There are some better alternatives to incorporate into your business plan, which should work against the WILL to make copies, not the ABILITY to make copies.

Attempting to protect video work is like pissing into the wind and trying to not get splashed.

[jimcornetet]

COMMENTS WITHDRAWN

[Noahtuck]

Seriously, either get over it, or just back out of the video business altogether.

So I'm suppose to just QUIT the industry just because of ONE flaw. YEAH THAT MAKES SENSE LORDASSMURF

Well... if hollywood & sony, macrovision, ect. ect. ect. can't stop someone from copying their dvd's..... ummm.... yeah.....

[lordsmurf]

Given your attitude, I'd rather deal with 15-year-old Timmy.

[holistic]

So I'm suppose to just QUIT the industry just because of ONE flaw. YEAH THAT MAKES SENSE LORDASSMURF

getting personal won't help your cause.
ONE flaw !?!? - not a flaw ........ a reality.
As stated earlier, YOU CANNOT copy protect your DVD and keep in within the DVD spec and i guarantee you if you scratch it, i'd be returning mine.
The idea to add extra downloadable files is a good one. Every (i've seen) blank DVD has it's own serial/lot number (call it what you like) on the hub - use that to your advantage.

[theewizard]

this will not stop a dedicated person, but listen to your self and think about it for a minute

this is a high school play NOT the new movie of the week, little 15 yr old timmy won't have any buyers, and is not interested, MR & mrs proud parents, will most likely not have the time , knowledge to make mulitple copies to send to all the grandparents & relatives

parents & grandparents are the main parties interested in seeing this, and if this is volunteer work and the money goes too the school, what are you getting all hyped up about

the school should take advance orders, like they do for candy , pictures, rings etc then have the total plus say 5% extra produced and made availavle for pickup during a certain time period

copyrighting & copy protecting are (2) different things

the first involves filing a form with the USA copyright office and a FEE and a copy of your play , book, manuscript etc..

the second involves commercail production of your DVD

however many people run into problems just trying to copy a DVD that was created on a DVD recorder because it has an extra folder and extra files, a video_rm folder that confuses many ripping programs and creates duplicate files

i'm not sure how you might go about creating this as a master disc as commercail DVDs don't have this

but if you simply want your production to run , NO fancy menus , but maybe some chapter points

you could feed the 'near' final version to a high end DVD recorder and edit in your chapter points

then use that disc as a master, do an ISO copy of the whole disc for an image and burn from the image

if sucessful , each disk would be have the video_rm folder on it..all would play normal, but the extra folder and files would give the avg person trying to copy the disc some problems

check this forum you will find people who have a problem trying to make copies of their own home DVD recordings, because of this factor

[ofbarea]

We can put a probe on MARS three zillion miles away and have a robot roam the planet for months if not years... YET we CANT have a SIMPLE program built-into our software to help protect our copyright????????? This is all very very STUPID to me!

Well, let’s remember that one of the MARS probes crashed just because someone did calculations in inches and some other team members did calculations in centimeters.

Technology it is not bullet proof. and no matter what you do, anyone with DVDfab will create a backup copy of your disk very quickly.

[AlanHK]

copyrighting & copy protecting are (2) different things
the first involves filing a form with the USA copyright office and a FEE and a copy of your play , book, manuscript etc.

Not necessary. These days everything is copyright on creation. Though having the words and the copyright symbol (which you can do yourself without reference to any office), and having it registered makes it easier to collect damages, but is not compulsory.

Anyway, the market is grannies. They're not going to buy bootleg disks.

So I'm suppose to just QUIT the industry just because of ONE flaw. YEAH THAT MAKES SENSE LORDASSMURF

You probably couldn't be in the industry at all if digital content wasn't so easy to make on cheap hardware.

Get a decent inkjet printer that prints disks. Get nice boxes and glossy covers. Make it look professional and you can charge a professional price and people won't think you're ripping them off.

[theewizard]

Not necessary. These days everything is copyright on creation. Though having the words and the copyright symbol (which you can do yourself without reference to any office), and having it registered makes it easier to collect damages, but is not compulsory.

your talking legal , the discussion is about physical protection preventing the copying NOT about collecting damages in court

filing or not filing for copyright and the physical protection against copying ARE different things

[Cornucopia]

WTF....If anything I have CASH issues....Although I did jumped into this thing as "Volunteer-work" and for exposure to lead to Wedding Videos (at $2,000+ a Wedding).

YOU go put in 4+ hrs every weeknight and 6+ every weekend for an entire MONTH...and see if you arent worried about some little $%^&ing 15yr old ripping off your work

The School has already approached me about next year (since they've seen my rough-cut DVD this year with multicam-angles and super-closeups and they "fall-off-their-seat" LOVE IT)..... I'm buttering them up to ask for a Retainer fee of $1,000 for next year plus a small percentage of DVD sales....which should put the project at $1,500 - $2,000..... much better deal than the deal we cut this year.

One thing I've learned with HS plays.... the parents will PAY just about any price you lay out there is your DVD is high quality and you capture great close shots of Suzie singing her butt off. I can be a great "gig" if I can keep the copy-infringers away.

Lordsmurph is right. I and others already gave you the real answer, as well as some good alternatives, and you won't listen to sense.

Couple of things to point out to you:

1. You "did jump into this thing as volunteer work". That means you've accepted all the burdens that entails. You "compensation" is supposed to be pride and goodwill. Count that for what it is and move on.

2.You wanted "exposure" to do Wedding vids, and it sounds like you've already gotten that going. Good. Accept your good fortune. See what volunteerism (or a reasonable facsimile) can do? Take your Wedding vid business and run with it.

3. Many people here have put in similar (and MORE) hours on things that may never get financially compensated for, but it's often for the LEARNING/EXPERIENCE, the PRIDE/GLORY, the MOUNTAIN TO CLIMB. Boo-hoo, you put in some work. Hopefully, your chops are good enough to wow some people. Maybe not. Either way, "Tommy" can't replicate and claim your expertise even if he can replicate your discs. This is what you (may) have that's unique. Go with that.

4. Since the school is approaching you for a repeat, you've realized your profit channel--VALUE-ADDING. Charge something substantial (but reasonable) up front so YOU'RE COVERED. Everything else is gravy.

5. Parents will pay what's reasonable (that they in their station can afford) to get a good momento of their children. Some parents can't afford your full-blown package. Personally, I think they ought to not be excluded, just because you want your profit. It's money to you, but it's precious memories to them. I've been in their situation before, so NOW I'm much more disposed to give a nod and a wink to those who, because of their circumstances, my need to cut corners. It DOESN'T TAKE AWAY WHAT YOU'VE ALREADY DONE OR GOTTEN FROM IT.

So, once again, it's all about having a good, reasonable and modern business model. One that respects your customers. Repeat after me: "Don't treat your clients with contempt, or they'll sooner or later get wise and treat you the same way." Similar to the golden rule (sorry mods if getting to religious...)

Scott

[AlanHK]

Not necessary. These days everything is copyright on creation. Though having the words and the copyright symbol (which you can do yourself without reference to any office), and having it registered makes it easier to collect damages, but is not compulsory.

your talking legal , the discussion is about physical protection preventing the copying NOT about collecting damages in court

filing or not filing for copyright and the physical protection against copying ARE different things

I was replying to your comment about copyright, which was incorrect, or at least incomplete.
Of course copy protection/DRM is a different, technical, matter.
What made you think I meant otherwise?

[rvelez]

Imagine you could make a file that cannot be copied.
How would it be copied to disc if it cannot be copied?
It can't.

[theewizard]

it's not date of creation, it's date of publication, unless you have filed a copyright form and then it can be published years later

I should know , I own the copy rights on some software 'puzzle gaming' published and sold in the 80's

you can't prove date of creation, you can prove when it was filed or when it was published

what made me think otherwise is what you said

but we are off topic..the op wants protection from copying

edited for typos:

[thecoalman]

[color=red]We can put a probe on MARS three zillion miles away and have a robot roam the planet for months if not years... YET we CANT have a SIMPLE program built-into our software to help protect our copyright?????????

There's a few reasons it hasn't been sucessful to this point, the biggest being is that it has to be vieweable. Even the new protectection for Blu-Ray and HD-DVD has benn bypassed , whether it remains bypassable remains to be seen at the moment but I've no doubt it will. On one side you may have a handful of very intelligent people creating the protective measures but on the other side you have thousands of equally intelligent people tryin to break it.

it's not date of creation, it's date of publication, unless you have filed a copyright form and then it can be published years later

Any copyrightable material is copyrighted immediately upon creation. If for example I wrote a book today and 20 years from now someone finds that book, files a copyright for it and publishes they most certainly can be sued. If I can prove I created it they are going to lose. Filing for copyright provides you two things, a firm unagurable date. It's also required if you wish to sue, you can however file after the infringement has taken place.

[AlanHK]

what made me think otherwise is what you said

What exactly? If you keep repeating that, I will get annoyed.
You said registration was necessary, I addressed that point.

it's not date of creation, it's date of publication,

The copyright exists from creation. If I copied and published a manuscript before the author published, I would certainly be infringing his copyright.

[Enygma]

His question was answered and he didn't like the answer. Why bother beating a dead horse?

The only thing he needed to know was that he CAN'T prevent people from copying the DVD he made. Hell, HD-DVD and Blu-ray aren't uncopyable. If he doesn't like it, he can find a different way to make money.

[zoobie]

lmao...I needed this thread
didn't know high school productions were so valuable

just wait 'till the newlyweds start to complain