How to COPYRIGHT protect?

[gadgetguy]

If I remember my high school theatre arts correctly, this whole endeavor is questionable. As I recall, the scripts that were used for the productions were labeled quite clearly that they were to be used for stage production only. Recording the production for distribution was specifically forbidden.
It's been many years since then, so things may have changed, but I would check into that before you get strapped for huge fines and possibly lose the schools privaledge to obtain scripts for future productions.

[lordsmurf]

Recording the production for distribution was specifically forbidden.

Very true!

[Ron B]

Theft of copyrighted material is part of the cost of doing business, like shoplifting is to retail stores. Like most things these days, it's not what's right or wrong, it's whether it's worth it to protect your material.
You don't need Macrovision, you need attorneys. You can sue anyone you can prove has stolen your material. In most cases, it's just not worth it. A cease and desist letter is about $800 in the United States, to go to court and sue for copyright infringement is $4000-6000, minimum. If you are losing that much money, than take the people who are stealing your goods to court. Otherwise, get your money up front. Charge a day rate.

[AlanHK]

If I remember my high school theatre arts correctly, this whole endeavor is questionable.

Even worse, it's a musical... and we know how understanding the RIAA is about innocent infringement, let alone profit-making ventures.

[thecoalman]

Well that's an interesting twist to this thread.... If the musicals are copyrighted I wonder how interested the OP is in protectecting the rights of copyright owners now. 200+ hours worth of work down the drain.

[rkgibbons]

I think this guy SERIOUSLY misunderstands the mentality of 15 year old kids today.

Trust me: they're not wasting their time making bootlegs of the high school musical. Cripes, they'd probably get beaten up if they even admitted that they WENT TO SEE the high school musical!

The best suggestion, as already stated: insist on some kind of pre-order system where parents are asked to fill out an order form within a certain period of time. After all the orders are in, ship the CD's. Not a day sooner.

If people are going to make copies after that, so be it. Nothing you can do about it.

And to answer the guys question about the technology to get to Mars. What he needs to understand is that technology works on both sides of the equation. Sure, there's technology to protect DVD's. But there's an equal arsenal of technology that can beat that protection.

[jimcornetet]

After getting a full night's sleep and a FRESH look at this thread:

1) THANKS to all of you for your answers....it looks like protecting my DVDs that I handout is not possible.

2) I APOLOGIZE for having an "attitude"....when you literally work 4hrs every night (after your fulltime day job) on a video-project for a month to meet a DEADLINE, it wears on you.

3) I apologize to Lordsmurf...although I dont like being made fun of but I guess thats what you get coming on this board asking questions, cop'ing an attitude.

4) THANKS to those who have gave me ideas on ways to manage and guide my video-biz....

Carry on.....

[SLK001]

Well, Jim, there is a way to protect your work and it is absolutely fool-proof! You didn't get this answer in any of the previous posts, because it is a very closely held secret of this board. We usually protect this knowledge from "noobs", because they can be very irritating (as you have a propensity to be, at times). However, since you now have a year under your belt (membership in the forum), we can now share this technology with you.

You might want to print this out, since this knowledge is so valuable, and is NOT searchable.

To protect your discs from being copied, take each disc and scribe a groove 0.005" to 0.010" deep radially from the center of the disc to the edge of the disc. Any width of this groove greater than 0.010" will do. Once done, nobody will be able to copy the disc.

Problem solved!

(And your costs are $20 per disc?)

[rkgibbons]

...and customers will hand back the disc and demand a non-scratched one. And when you try to explain to them that you did it so that they can't copy it, they'll ask for their money back.

The scratching idea is not something you should do when selling your products. It's unprofessional.

Just live with the fact that you can't protect them.

[TBoneit]

That's alright, Next he'll be looking to protect the Wedding videos from being copied.

Hollywood and Sony haven't come up with a foolproof way and we are expected to come up with a foolproof way.

Think about it, if I could come up with a way to completely defeat copying and still have every player play the DVD. Would I give it away here or would I hop the next jet to Hollywood? You got it, show me that big money!

Charge enough up front for the wedding video and give enough copies and a license to copy up to 50 copies and you'll have happy customers and make the money you wanted up front.

[Des]

YOU go put in 4+ hrs every weeknight and 6+ every weekend for an entire MONTH...and see if you arent worried about some little $%^&ing 15yr old ripping off your work

I do this all the time and deal with people copying my work whether it be video editing/creation or photo restoration (cheap copies at CVS!).
Hell, I used to do photoshop workshops for free and 6 months after I stopped doing it someone two towns over was doing them at $35 a person. I got mad, then flattered then I showed up at one of this guys workshops, he recognized me and I him, I told him that I did it better and he needed to get original. Life goes on.

Frankly I think Cornucopia gave you the best advice:

Change your business model!
Add great graphics on the labelling and packaging and "booklets", or extra picture files (in a separate folder) that a standard ripper won't automatically copy, or a website that your "individualized registration" allows extra features to be temporarily (for one/limited time only) downloaded). Get them hooked on the bonus that your version could have that a "generic" copy may not have.

Do the best you can, be happy with your work, reap the benefits from that you are able to and most importantly build yourself a good reputation. That will take you further than trying to keep every nickle and dime people try to take from you. You'll also sleep easier.

--dES

[smitbret]

He'll probably burn it to Memorex or whatever's on sale at OfficeMax that week, too. Just a guess, based on his posts. Can't wait till he burns it to DVD-R and finds out that someone's DVD player that was made in 1994 won't play it and they want a copy that works. We'd better anchor in when he comes back for that one.

"So you're telling me they can put a probe on Mars 3 million miles away... but Memorex can't make a decent DVD that will play on every DVD player on the face of the Earth?"
-Brett

[SLK001]

Frankly I think Cornucopia gave you the best advice:

Change your business model!
Add great graphics on the labelling and packaging and "booklets", or extra picture files (in a separate folder) that a standard ripper won't automatically copy, or a website that your "individualized registration" allows extra features to be temporarily (for one/limited time only) downloaded). Get them hooked on the bonus that your version could have that a "generic" copy may not have.

But there's no need to "rip". Just load the disc in your drive, highlight everything, then drag them to your HD. Without CSS, the files are just that - files. (As an aside, even with CSS, they are still just files, and you can even still drag and drop them to your HD! It's just that the files are gibberish with being descrambled.)

[Ron B]

I'm telling you, do what the pros do; charge a day rate. Figure out what to charge them; your labor and expenses, and add the cost of extra product, in your case, DVDs. Ask for at least half up front, or at least a good deposit that will cover everything but your labor.
You're not making enough money to get an ulcer over copyright infringement. When your stuff is in theaters or TV, then you worry about distribution problems.

[TooLFooL]

the funniest part of all this is if you DO actually figure out a new copy-protection system, we will be forced to create new threads explaining how to remove your protection!

[Rich86]

We can put a probe on MARS three zillion miles away and have a robot roam the planet for months if not years... YET we CANT have a SIMPLE program built-into our software to help protect our copyright????????? This is all very very STUPID to me!

This HS Musical has taken me about 200+ hours to edit with four Sony PDX10 cameras.... its a 2hr 37min play.... and its a really really GREAT play.... something I'd expected to see in a traveling Broadway Series.... the HS has about 1,500 students to choose from and the Casting is TopNotch. The Stage and Lighting was actually built by two guys who work fulltime for the Cincinnati Downtown Aronoff Performing Arts Broadway Series Company.

Anyway.... with all these 200+ hrs into this project I dont want little 15yr old Johnny doing an underground DVD burning party to send off to all the Kids grandparents and sell for $10 so he can go buy his monthly supply of Drugs.

It seems to me that the folks who put the play on provided the art and talent and did most of the important work by far. All you did was camp on their artistic efforts and talent with a couple of cameras - apparently with honorable, altruistic motives - that have gone awry at the 11th hour. I don't see where you have any "copyright" in this at all? Do you own the play? No - as others have mentioned, the school probably paid a fee for the privilege of offering the performance which most likely did not include filming and selling it afterwards. Have you contacted the owners of the play? The folks who wrote the play? The school that contracted for and put it on? How about the performers (you know, those 15 year old druggies you're whining about).
It is unfortunate that you migrated to the dark side - and now think you are the mpaa or riaa. You should be ashamed of yourself for turning something good and generous into typical entertaiment industry personal greed.
Just burn the dvd's - do the best job you can - price them to recover your costs - and enjoy the appreciation you get from those kids, their parents, and their grandparents.

[videopoo]

,,,

[thecoalman]

I don't see where you have any "copyright" in this at all?

His copyright pertains to any original material he has created, aka the edited video. He cannot sell it on his own nor can the school without his permission. That's assuming the musical isn't copyrighted.

If on the other hand he worked for the school the school would own the copyright to any material that he has created.

[ricky1756]

"We can put a probe on MARS three zillion miles away and have a robot roam the planet for months if not years..."
The same people who are doing these things now, are the same people, who when they were younger, easily broke any of the dvd protection schemes.

[guns1inger]

To the last few posters - the OP has come back, been very gracious in his acknowledgment of the advice given, apologised for having an attitude, and basically been pretty good about the way this thread has gone. So why are you guys still being such ******** ?

[jimcornetet]

I don't see where you have any "copyright" in this at all? Do you own the play? No - as others have mentioned, the school probably paid a fee for the privilege of offering the performance which most likely did not include filming and selling it afterwards. Have you contacted the owners of the play? The folks who wrote the play? The school that contracted for and put it on? How about the performers (you know, those 15 year old druggies you're whining about).
It is unfortunate that you migrated to the dark side - and now think you are the mpaa or riaa. You should be ashamed of yourself for turning something good and generous into typical entertaiment industry personal greed.

I'm working hand in glove WITH the Director/Producer of the Play who PAID $6,000 for the copyright to the Play and we cut a % of sales deal between me and her Theatre Fund. She has LICENSED me to record it.

[guns1inger]

I tried to stick up for you, and you go and do this. All you had to say was that you have a contract with the producer, not go on a rant.

[jimcornetet]

I tried to stick up for you, and you go and do this. All you had to say was that you have a contract with the producer, not go on a rant.

I have since edited above.... my God, please make the stone-throwing stop.

[Mr. Dweezel]

@jimcornetet.....

You can put a transparent watermark on your video.

Probably in the lower right corner, as people are used to
seeing it in that location.

[jimcornetet]

@jimcornetet.....

You can put a transparent watermark on your video.

Probably in the lower right corner, as people are used to
seeing it in that location.

good thought.... but I'm too much of a video purist to do that. I've seen DVD Screenings that have Text fade in and out and I think it takes away from the video. Personally when I'm watching soemthing and getting completely involved into the storyline to where if someone else in the room asks me something and I dont hear them because I'm "into" the movie.... I definitely dont want some "text" breaking my viewing pleasure....and wouldn't think to inflict that on anyone else

thanks though....

[Mr. Dweezel]

@jimcornetet.....

It doesn't have to be text.

If you've ever watched the American Life channel you'll just see a
transparent star in the corner.

I definately didn't mean the kind of animated garbage that most channels are using!

[Ron B]

It's called a "bug". I don't put them on work I do for customers(unless they ask), or on feature productions, but I put one on just about everything else, especially stuff that goes on the internet.
If somebody really wanted to, they could get rid of the bug as well. Matter of fact, I think the software that will do that is available here in the Tools section............
Protecting your work is a problem, no doubt about it, but like I said earlier, don't let it eat you up, do the best you can, then move on to the next job.

[adam]

If Hollywood can't copy-protect their DVDs, blah blah

I see this argument so often and I don't understand it. No form of security will ever be perfect. Does that mean its not worth implementing any security at all? That is nonesense. I'm sure there is no lock out there that will keep all burglars out of my house. That doesn't mean I might as well leave the door open.

Studios license CSS and Macrovision knowing full well that massive segments of their markets will easily bypass them. But the fact is that there will always be massive segments of their market that will not be able to bypass the protection, as easy as it might be. When spread out over hundreds of thousands of discs, the cost of the protection is relatively low. You don't have to fool that many PTA moms before it becomes cost effective. The fact that a security measure can be bypassed by some or even many, doesn't make it useless.

In the case of the original poster, his market is not large enough to justify spending money on CSS or Macrovision, and these are the only viable commercial solutions. I think the best solution is to just guilt your audience with a disclaimer saying that the kiddos put alot of hard work into this so everyone should be honest and buy their own copy.

[Cornucopia]

I think the best solution is just to put out the best you can, sell as many as you can up front for a reasonable amount, and then TRUST the customers will want to come back to YOU (the source) for additional copies, should they be pleased with the product.

I would think that the time saved by not investing in WORRY. GREED, JEALOUSY and ILL WILL could be best used to prepare you for your next successful venture. Does wonders for your complexion as well.

Scott

BTW, what's with the "all red" text?

[AlanHK]

You can put a transparent watermark on your video.
Probably in the lower right corner, as people are used to
seeing it in that location.

What's the point? If someone wants to copy it, they'll do it regardless.
Messing up the video won't stop them, and will only degrade the experience for those who paid for it.

But again, who is going to go to the trouble to rip it off? It's a "market" whose members can be listed on a single page.