What format should I choose to archive old analog video?

[Jone.T]

I have a bunch of VHS and Video8 tapes that I want' to capture to a digital format. It is also possible that I want' to edit the video but not necessarily make DVD's. I have two options for the capturing; I can use my Pioneer HDD recorder (Mpeg2) or I could borrow a canupus and capture to DV. The question is what format should I store them in?

DV would require a lot of space but is a format that will be used for some more years I guess.
Mpeg2 will not be relevant when DVD is replaced by HD and Bluray. And can it be edited?
Mpeg4 (Xvid/DivX) gives small files but can it be edited without convertion to another format?
Mpeg4 part 10 or AVC. This format is used in HD-DVD and Blue-ray. Is it likely that this format will have many possible options for editing-software in the future?

[BJ_M]

mpeg2 is still used on HD disks - and will be in use for many years ..

if you plan on some major editing in the future - dv is a good choice , a smaller editable file would be short GOP (IPPP for example) mpeg2 at higher than 8000 bit rate ...

there is a lot of choices and opinions on this topic

[thecoalman]

If you have the cash for the hardrive space use DV, also note you can export the DV from your computer to a tape on a DV cam for an additional backup. Don't archive anything including MPEG on DVD unless it's a secondary backup.

Any standard digital format used as widely as DV or MPEG will be playable/editable 100 years from now in my opinion as long as it's a file and the device it's residing on is current. For example your VHS tapes depend on a physical player that can read the tapes, by converting them to digital you have removed that dependancy.

[redwudz]

You have to consider the source quality of the video. VHS will not improve in quality by using a higher quality storage format. I would use MPEG-2 for it. The Video 8 tapes may be a little better quality, but probably MPEG-2 will still be equal to the task.

And all this would depend on the amount of tapes we are talking about. If you just had a few, DV might be the best, but if you have a lot, you would end up with a lot of discs. And if you were going to store in DV format as a archive, I would do it as DV tape, not a DVD disc.

For the 'capturing' format, I would probably use the Canopus, mainly because you have more options for filtering, editing and image stabilization. A TBC and a hardware Proc Amp or image enhancer would be nice, but pricey. There is also the time involved with encoding to MPEG-2. If you have a lot of tapes, the DVR method would be faster, but probably not the best quality. And your playback device is also very important. Unless you have a top quality VHS deck, all this may be wasted. I would think about a VHS deck with a built in TBC for the minimum setup.

You could borrow the Canopus and try both it and the DVR and see what quality you get. But most likely, you may find that the DVR method is the quickest and the quality is sufficient to your needs and the time involved. JMO.

[thecoalman]

For the 'capturing' format, I would probably use the Canopus, mainly because you have more options for filtering, editing and image stabilization.

That's one of the reasons I recommend DV, but for another reason. Skip the filtering, edit out the junk and archive the raw capture . Who knows what the future holds, there will undoubtedly be better and more advanced filters in the future and having the the most original copy is going to be preferable.

[Jone.T]

Thanks for your replies everyone! I will go for DVR -> MP2 -> Xvid for the VHS stuff that I will never edit. I will test Canopus and compare with MP2 for the camera mastertapes.

You say MPEG2 (short GOP) is edible. The short GOP thing I presume has to do with something like frame accurate editing is difficult with MPEG2. But can editing software like Premiere, Vegas, Avid and the like edit MPEG2?

[SingSing]

Big disadvantage is you can't watch xvid as easy as DVD.

[JohnnyMalaria]

There are two parts to the equation as far as archiving goes.

You need to not only choose a format (DV, MPEG2 etc) but a physical storage medium.

If you want reliable, long-term storage, you must consider the storage medium. If you intend to use bargain DVD-Rs at $10 for a 100 (or whatever!), you will probably end up with unreadable material in a few years. Archive-quality DVD-R blanks are much more expensive ($2 to $5 each).

At current prices, when you compare the cost for archival storage in $/GB, you'll find that storage DV format video on miniDV tape is the least expensive.

Personally, for archiving my video library (mainly Video 8 and miniDV), I use DV tape (actually, I am using the full-size version). I have no intention of using optical storage at this time. And certainly not any format based on interframe compression.

Of course, you will find many opposed opinions on this forum.

[SingSing]

I agreed.

MiniDV run about $3.00 per hour. When miniDV failed, you only lost a section. Tape does not have fading problem like DVD. For dollar/min and long term reliability, miniDV is about the best.

Note : I said the same thing about Hi-8, until they stop making hi-8 camcorder, and my hi-8 VTR died.

[Jone.T]

Note : I said the same thing about Hi-8, until they stop making hi-8 camcorder, and my hi-8 VTR died.

And they will stop making miniDV camcorders soon. I think I will by one more (Canon HV20) but after that I guess it's HDD or Flash all the way.
I plan to set up a "file mirror" at a different location and sync all my files each night. But I won't be deleting any of the DV tapes I have and might consider to transfer the video8 masters to miniDV.

[handyguy]

The big question is whether there is going to be a player to play them in the format you choose in 20 years.

Like where do you find an 8" floppy drive these days? Tricky.

[JohnnyMalaria]

The big question is whether there is going to be a player to play them in the format you choose in 20 years.

To be sure something is available, you should buy an additional player now and put it aside for use in 20 years' time....

I have 15-year old Video 8 camcorders that still play Video 8 tapes just fine.

[Cornucopia]

"Data archiving" is an ongoing thing, as any librarian could tell you. You should consider everything that you have (that you value) to have a certain lifespan, and plan for MIGRATING it all to it's new format within that lifespan, and then repeat the cycle again at the end of that lifespan, moving on to whatever you determine to be your next, future-proofed format.

I suggest STANDARDS, because they last longer and because that makes players for them more available for longer.

I suggest MULTIPLE COPIES in DIFFERENT LOCATIONS, possibly DIFFERENT FORMATS, for good "error correction". (Not all your eggs in 1 basket)

Have a prioritizing plan/system, based on your percieved value and percieved vulnerability to deterioration.

This applys to everything:
Computer data,
Videos/DVDs
Music
Text/Books
Photos/Artwork
"Memoires"
...

Good luck,

Scott

[SingSing]

Ah, you said we should en-slaved to our past ?