Need Frame Rate Help, Simple but I'm missing it!

[theshapecool]

Hey Guys, I need some MAJOR help here.
Its a simple problem but I really need to solve it.
I'm currently directing a movie called Hellbilly58, check it on IMDB if you like
and were shooting on a CANON XM2.
Basically, I need to know how to render my video file as TOTALLY uncompressed perfect quality AVI doing a 23.976 Pulldown.

Now I'm using sony vegas and I do this and it works exept the actual quality isnt that good.
I want the best quality AVI I can get. I'm capturing at uncompressed full DV quality and I need to export it as this too, only at 23fps. I know how to progress the scan but just cant seem to get
the quality I need. I'm using a great monitor and playing back on many players, but it comes out blocky and often flickers like there is a flame blowing in the wind if you get me.

This is for a feature thats got a lot of well known Horror Names in it and it will be on DVD and may even do a theatrical run.

Anyone who can help will recieve full credit and IMDB listing.

Many thanks.

Russ

[Guiboche]

What are you using to view the DV file?

Because, in QuickTime, it defaults to half res, low quality. Even though the source is full quality DV.

As well, I'm not sure how the export options work, but if you're exporting to DV 24p advance, the editor might add an Advanced Pulldown (at least Premiere does). On my editor, there is no option not to include the pulldown. Unless I export to something other than DV...

[theshapecool]

Yeah its a pulldown. I am using dvdxplayer, wmplayer and the all have bad quality.

Plus the one time when I get the quality just right, i get this weird kinda of flickering where it fades the brightnesss up and down.

If anyone can tell me the exact options to chose in render or in properties without errors and the best uncompressed image, please let me know.

Russ

[vhelp]

Evening theshapecool,

I'm not familiar with Vegas, and I'm not as clear in understanding what you
are doing, but as far as your inquiry about uncompress avi goes..

When you bring in video from your cam corder via firwire, you are transfering
the dv to your pc in its original dv format. I don't think that you are
capturing it as uncompressed dv. In fact, I dont' know of any software that
incorporate this methodolitry of capture with dv. I mean, I don't know of
anything that takes dv and decodes (uncompresses it) as dv. If it uncompresses
the dv, than it is either giving your a final Uncompressed RGB or a final RAW
YUV 4:2:2 source or a suplemental codec supporting the YUV color space and provides
the format in question. My guess is that you might be working with an RGB avi, but
I'm not sure, cause you didn't clearly note your (DV CAM -> Premier -> PC ) steps.

In any event..

Total uncompressed (in your case) would mean that your DV source would have
to be decoded from DV -to- RAW RGB, hence Uncompressed.

NTSC: DV is YUV color space, with 4:1:1 luma/chroma sub-sampling
PAL : DV is YUV color space, with 4:2:0 luma/chroma sub-sampling

You can also posess software that incorporates a (DV -> decode -> YUV 4:2:2)
in either RAW or a codec that supports YUV 4:2:2 color space (ther than RAW)
using some container format, like YUY2 -- Huffyuv codec is an example.
But the software has to provide this feature of raw decoding.

To my knowledge, when either are decoded, both are usually upsampled to 4:2:2
before converting over to RGB color space. There are various implementations
to do this. So, it is likely that if an aspect of your video work were to
entail some Image Analysis research, it is possible that there would be some
minor differences in each of the DV decoding methods. Personally, I like to
use the Cedocida dv codec. IMHO, it gives me the closest Decoded -to- RGB
video for my TMPGenc encode projects. However, the only drawback to using
this codec, (at least on my system) it is very slow at decoding, and when you
try and play the video (ie, in VirtualDub) it hesitates/stutters during play.

Matrox dv codec is very fast, and plays smooth. This is my second choice,
especially for playing inside virtualdub.

When you want to test various DV (and other) codecs, you should equip your-
self with this small tool, vcswap.exe for windows. With this tool, and by
having multipole codec installations, you can swap IN and OUT (turn on/off)
various codecs for testing. It was with the assistance of this tool that I was
able to conclude on my final choice of DV codecs, hence Cedocida.

DOWNLOAD: vcswap.exe v1.5.3.54
--> https://www.videohelp.com/tools?tool=VCSwap
** VCSwap is a tool for Hot Swapping Video Codecs. You can, while you are
** editing your video's, swap between the different codecs.Enabling and
** Disabling installed Codecs on the fly. Showing of Installed DirectShow
** filters.

DOWNLOAD: Cedocida DV Codec v0.1.7
--> https://www.videohelp.com/tools?tool=Cedocida_DV_Codec
** Cedocida is an open source Video for Windows (VfW) DV-Type2-Codec.
** Install: In folder release right click on "cedocida.inf" and select
** install.

-vhelp 4229

[Guiboche]

I'm certain he ment native DV, even though he wrote uncompressed DV.

But, as for your problem with the fades, I think I know what you're talking about theshapecool.

Premiere Pro has this problem too. But don't worry. The edit itself isn't ruined.

It probably works the same in Vegas, but in Premiere, when working with 24p, if the pulldown orders are different, the video will studder, or the brightness values will turn strange colours.

In full 24p DV mode, this won't go away. But, if you export a lossless AVI (not DV), it will create a full 24p accurrate file that won't have any of that artifacting.

Serving the 24p timeline works too (not sure how you do that with Vegas, but it works with Premiere).

For a lossless codec, I suggest Huffy.

[theshapecool]

Hey guys, it worked!

No weird lights or anything.

BUT I have one question.

When I playback, the image is rather blocky, not like
big blocks, but just slightly blocky with tiny blocks,
will this show up on another monitor?
or is it just when I playback in dvdx player?