Encoder Details?

[frappawotsit]

Hi,

I use Adobe Premiere Elements 3 to do my encoding, and as I understand it, (correct me if i'm wrong) it uses a variation of the mainconcept encoder.

How do i find out how good this encoder is? It seems many many mainstream applications use "a variation of the mainconcept encoder" so i guess i'd like to know if they're all the same or if some "variations" are better than others?

For example, the full Adobe Premiere also uses the mainconcept encoder ( i believe ) so what is the difference between the one used in the full app, and the one used in elements?

I'm sure some guru will be along any moment to resolve my pondering.....

thanks...

-Stu.

[edDV]

You must explain your project flow. What are you doing, what is your goal and when do you encounter the encoder?

[frappawotsit]

You must explain your project flow. What are you doing, what is your goal and when do you encounter the encoder?

ah, i should have known i was looking at it too simplistically, LOL

OK, if i understand what is required of me, my work flow is as follows:

1) Import my DV footage as .avi using windv.

2) Use Adobe Prem Elements 3 to edit my .avi files and when complete use APE3 to render the completed works and encode into mpeg2.

3) I'm then using Sony DVDA 4 to author the DVD menu's etc and output to video_ts file etc.

4) Then ImgBurn2 to build and write to DVD Disc the finished product.

As far as i'm aware, my question regarding encoding and specifically the mainconcept encoder is pertinant to step 2 where I encode from .avi to .mpeg2 (but i'm prepared to be corrected)

Does this help?

[Soopafresh]

Trust your eyes. Does it look good to you ? No macroblocking ? The picture is detailed but not noisy ? Then it is fine. Once the bitrate of most mpeg2 encoders goes above 6000Kbs, it is difficult to tell any of them apart.

[edDV]

OK, so you are staying in interlace from DV camcorder format 25Mb/s, editing in Adobe Elements 3 and encoding default? (6000Kb/s MPeg2 for a 480i DVD).

This is all normal practice. My main gripe with Abobe (and Sony Vegas) is the 6000 Kb/s VBR default. This works well for pro shot material (i.e. tripod, lighting and smooth camera movement) but not for handheld, poorly lit, noisy home video. Those won't take that much compression. I like 8000-9000Kbps CBR to get better quality for those reasons.

So there are encoder settings and there are different encoders.

There are cheap MPeg2 encoders that have lowest royalties or are public domain.

There are high end encoders used for commercial production (i.e. heavy hardware, low cost sensitivity and lots of time for the final pass).

And think 2001-2003
There was a need for an encoder that is available as a SDK (toolbox) that allows different OEM's to optimize or replace components for high quality (branding) yet is modular so the same architecture can be offered with different features and cost points (royalties) for consumer to semi-pro to pro application. Next which encoder is best encoding the DV/DVCAM/HDV/DVCPro interlace 480i/576i/1080i formats used for medium consumer to medium-high pro camcorder acquisition. This contrasts with high end 24fps film source for commercial DVD.

Those were the issues faced by Adobe, Discreet, Sonic, Sonic Foundary, Sorenson Ulead and others ( http://www.mainconcept.com/site/index.php?id=111 ) back in 2000-2003. Most chose to go with the Mainconcept SDK as a business decision and more have since. Some use their own technology in a particular module.

I'm not their shill. I had the same questions at the time. I just watch who uses what and why. Adobe was a lead player here. Apple and Avid went to different MPeg encoder patents although Apple uses Lumiere HD (Mainconcept) for HDV. In prosumer space, Adobe, Sony (Vegas line) and ULead have the majority. At the high end the issues are different and the solutions are more specialized. Anystream and Telestream are core for moving broadcast video around fiber networks. The other names on that list are key players in their segment.

[frappawotsit]

OK, so you are staying in interlace from DV camcorder format 25Mb/s, editing in Adobe Elements 3 and encoding default? (6000Kb/s MPeg2 for a 480i DVD).

This is all normal practice. My main gripe with Abobe (and Sony Vegas) is the 6000 Kb/s VBR default. This works well for pro shot material (i.e. tripod, lighting and smooth camera movement) but not for handheld, poorly lit, noisy home video. Those won't take that much compression. I like 8000-9000Kbps CBR to get better quality for those reasons.

So there are encoder settings and there are different encoders.

There are cheap MPeg2 encoders that have lowest royalties or are public domain.

There are high end encoders used for commercial production (i.e. heavy hardware, low cost sensitivity and lots of time for the final pass).

And think 2001-2003
There was a need for an encoder that is available as a SDK (toolbox) that allows different OEM's to optimize or replace components for high quality (branding) yet is modular so the same architecture can be offered with different features and cost points (royalties) for consumer to semi-pro to pro application. Next which encoder is best encoding the DV/DVCAM/HDV/DVCPro interlace 480i/576i/1080i formats used for medium consumer to medium-high pro camcorder acquisition. This contrasts with high end 24fps film source for commercial DVD.

Those were the issues faced by Adobe, Discreet, Sonic, Sonic Foundary, Sorenson Ulead and others ( http://www.mainconcept.com/site/index.php?id=111 ) back in 2000-2003. Most chose to go with the Mainconcept SDK as a business decision and more have since. Some use their own technology in a particular module.

I'm not their shill. I had the same questions at the time. I just watch who uses what and why. Adobe was a lead player here. Apple and Avid went to different MPeg encoder patents although Apple uses Lumiere HD (Mainconcept) for HDV. In prosumer space, Adobe, Sony (Vegas line) and ULead have the majority. At the high end the issues are different and the solutions are more specialized. Anystream and Telestream are core for moving broadcast video around fiber networks. The other names on that list are key players in their segment.

Whoooosh, as 9/10ths goes whizzing over my head )

I guess the only thing out of all that which I think i can grasp, is that for my handheld, poorly lit, noisy home video, i should change the APE3 default settings to 8000-9000Kbps CBR?

I'm not sure where to do this, but i'm sure with some fiddling i'll find it....

thanks for the response edDV, (even if it did mean about as much to me as astro-physics)

-Stu

[edDV]

Somwhere in encoder settings/preferences. I don't have Elements. In Premeire these settings are under "export timeline".

[frappawotsit]

Somwhere in encoder settings/preferences. I don't have Elements. In Premeire these settings are under "export timeline".

thanks, i'm not at my home pc right now, but i'll check when i get home.... thanks again, your knowledge and the sharing of it, is much appreciated.

-Stu