x.v.color/x.v.colour/xvYCC HDMI 1.3 only required?

[ArthurDaley]

I posted in HD forum but no answer so posting link here too:

https://forum.videohelp.com/viewtopic.php?p=1670799#1670799

[edDV]

I posted in HD forum but no answer so posting link here too:

https://forum.videohelp.com/viewtopic.php?p=1670799#1670799

This is fairly bleeding edge.

I bought the Sony HDR HC7 (for under £800GBP at http://www.purelygadgets.co.uk/prodinfo2.php?prodid=3322&gcli ... bgodqUqCqQ).

On the side it says x.v.colour.

Therefore it would appear that if the LCD supports HDMI 1.3 then it supports this wider colour space? For example I am thinking of the Samsung F71 Series 40" which other forums claim supports 1.3.

I think it is a logic jump to assume that a monitor that supports HDMI 1.3 must also support wider spectrum backlights and x.v.colour. The HDR HC7 is an interesting consumer HDV camcorder but I'd need to see a demo of x.v.colour difference before I'd spend any effort or money. The differences will be very minimal and only affect direct connection from that camcorder to that monitor.

What do others think? Also do you need a HDMI cable for each revision, EG a 1.3 HDMI cable or are all the cables the same?

I don't know but I would doubt HDMI 1.3 would require a different cable. You would be hearing the screams of pain from all those Monster customers that overpaid 4-6x for their current HDMI cables. Many lawyers here would be circulating paper for class action.

[ArthurDaley]

Hmmm so we will assume that 1.3 HDMI displays handle this wide colour space.

The differences will be very minimal and only affect direct connection from that camcorder to that monitor.

Hmmm I'd hope not. There was be some way to "archive" it. I mean surely if I pull the HDV onto the PC (it is MPEG2 if I recall, have not got round to this yet) then surely the file then on the PC has the extra colour space, then it follows that if I burn it to DVD the extra colour space is kept?

[edDV]

Hmmm so we will assume that 1.3 HDMI displays handle this wide colour space.

The differences will be very minimal and only affect direct connection from that camcorder to that monitor.

Hmmm I'd hope not. There was be some way to "archive" it. I mean surely if I pull the HDV onto the PC (it is MPEG2 if I recall, have not got round to this yet) then surely the file then on the PC has the extra colour space, then it follows that if I burn it to DVD the extra colour space is kept?

All that Sony has out their on x.v.colour is marketing hype, no white paper or process flow. x.v.YCC expands 8bit color components to 16bit capable over the HDMI. Monitor capability might mean full 16bit color or some kind of lookup table.

As for an HDV camcorder, I'm confused because the HDV 1440x1080i 8bit color in 4:2:0 space is fixed in the HDV standard. Maybe the CMOS sensor works in wider color before down conversion to tape, maybe wider color space is available on live feeds over HDMI 1.3, but I don't see how HDV tape playback from the camcorder can have a wider colorspace than the HDV standard.

[edDV]

Also, I'm considering an HDR-HC7 myself but if I find that Sony is making non-standard HDV tapes, Sony is off my list.

Why doesn't the press ask these obvious questions. Why do they print Sony PR without question? It has been 2+ months since CES.

[ArthurDaley]

Got answer from Sony Tokya:

My apologises for the delay in replying. It has taken some time for my colleagues in Tokyo to reply to my e-mails regarding your comments and questions.

A product listed as having HDMi version 1.3 does not necessarily mean that it will have all of the features listed under the version classification, indeed some of the features are optional, including the xvYCC wide colour standard.

At this time, Sony does not actively promote HDMi classification, mainly for above reasons, instead preferring to promote the individual model features.

The need for a new HDMi cable really depends on the cable, which also have a HDMi rating. The main thing to consider is if any current cables would be able to handle the increased bandwidth (10.2GBps) that comes with version 1.3

I hope this helps, if you have any further questions please feel free to ask.

[edDV]

Got answer from Sony Tokya:

My apologises for the delay in replying. It has taken some time for my colleagues in Tokyo to reply to my e-mails regarding your comments and questions.

A product listed as having HDMi version 1.3 does not necessarily mean that it will have all of the features listed under the version classification, indeed some of the features are optional, including the xvYCC wide colour standard.

At this time, Sony does not actively promote HDMi classification, mainly for above reasons, instead preferring to promote the individual model features.

The need for a new HDMi cable really depends on the cable, which also have a HDMi rating. The main thing to consider is if any current cables would be able to handle the increased bandwidth (10.2GBps) that comes with version 1.3

I hope this helps, if you have any further questions please feel free to ask.

That still doesn't expalin what the HC7 does with xvYCC.

[ArthurDaley]

Confused, the camcorder stores it with that colour format.

[racer-x]

From what I can see, it's just altered and enhanced colors. It looks fake in the clips I've seen. I don't realy care much for it. They did a full review of the HDR-HC7 at Watchimpress. It has some clips that switch between color settings so you can see the difference. Here is an English translation of the review:
http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.watch.impress.co.jp%2Fav%2Fdo...language_tools

[edDV]

Thanks for the Japanese reports. I don't care about still photography with these camcorders. I'm alarmed by the stills from video. On my vector scope they show a 3 degree red shift to magenta and about 5% increased chroma saturation which will cause major problems for normal NTSC or DVD encoding and make it difficult to match this camera for a multi camera shoot.

Most alarming, the article seems to indicate the Japanese model defaults to x.v.Color mode and needs to be turned off each time the camera is powered. I hope I'm reading that incorrectly.

Untill I can be assured of the performance with the x.v.Color mode off, the HC7/UX5/UX7 models are off my list for consideration.

I want my next HDV camcorder to match the HC-1, HC3, FX-1 and Z1 in color space.

[racer-x]

The site has video clips you can download. They are encoded to MOV using H.264/aac. They de-interlaced them and encoded at an unusually high 25 - 35 mbps. One clip in particular keeps switching back and forth through color spaces. I viewed it and don't care much for the X.V.colorspace. I prefere the normal colorspace. Here's a direct link to the clip:

http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/av/docs/20070214/ezsm1.mov

Personally, I like the Canon HV-20 best of the new Cameras so far.............

[ArthurDaley]

Still have no clue what the camera is doing with the extra colour space - does it store it to tape? I presume so. Therefore does it only "add" the colour space when played from camcorder over HDMI 1.3 to a display supporting it or does the extra colour information also get encoded into the .m2t file that I transfer to the PC?