recording tv programs

[kasfig]

Dear Forum
I am interested to know about copyright as respects the above matter (in UK).
If one records tv programs to either videotape or DVD (just for home personal use) is this strictly speaking legal or is it against the law.
Any advice would be much appreciated please
Ian

[JohnnyMalaria]

Not sure if this helps:

In general, common law countries, such as the United Kingdom and the United States, permit video recording for domestic use, but although most countries in continental Europe consider video recording to be a breach of the author's right, they simultaneously recognise that they cannot prevent the onward march of technology.

[RabidDog]

It is legal. in the Uk. specifically permitted. the medium is irrelevant.

Sidenote many old epsiodes of dr who were only retrieved becoz people had varrious recordings at home. So not only legal, practically a patriotic duty.

[kasfig]

Hi!
Thank you both for this help. I am now reassured about my home recordings>
Best wishes
Ian

[KBeee]

Home recording, even for personal use, is technically illegal in the UK.
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/10/30/ippr_copyright/

[kasfig]

Thank you I read the article.
Would it be correct to say home recording, although against the letter of the law, is not against the spirit of the law. Do they turn a blind eye to innocent recording which is not going to be used commercially or further copied.
Yours with thanks
ian

[KBeee]

My apologies. I think the article I pointed you to is wrong.
There are 2 issues here, *time-shifting*, and *backing up*
Time-shifting for purely personal use is legal.
Copying (even just "backing-up" for personal use only, your legally bought DVD's/tapes for example) is not legal.

[kasfig]

HI
Thanks for this advice. I see it is technically wrong to record any TV program to videotape in the UK . I expect the Government bans this to prevent abuse of copyright etc, but this blanket ban inadvertently prevents innocent home users from legally copying their programs for home use only .
Do you know if there is any evidence the govt really minds home users taping programs eg do they prosecute such ones on occasion.
Ian

[Richard_G]

If you did something pretty serious but all they could get you for is recording the odd TV program, I suppose it is possible that you could get prosecuted. However, highly unlikely. Nobody is going to be in the slightest bit bothered if you tape something just so you can watch it at a later date.

But, if you were to make a number of copies and start selling them at your local car boot sale, prepare yourself for a close encounter with a magistrate!

[kasfig]

Dear Richard
Thank you for this . I suppose its a bit like the situation with cannabis users. No one prosecutes them for using it at home these days, except under the circumstances you mentioned when they have serious issues with a person.
Thank you
Ian

[kasfig]

If you taped/copied a TV program onto dvd or videocassette then much later decided to playback the dvd or tape at home, could you be prosecuted for not having a tv licence since even though you were not watching live tv the media you were playing back had originally been a tv program.
ian

[JonnyCabs]

Slight change of topic here... however...

If you intend to use a TV you must have a TV license

The licensing law states that you must have a license for
<approx quote> "any device capable of recieving or displaying a tv signal"

This includes PC monitors connected to PC's with TV cards,TV/DVD combo's,portable TV's etc

The method by which you get the program onto the display is irrelevant - it's the fact that you can view it that is the point.

Hope that makes sense

[kasfig]

Good comment
If an acquaintance recorded a episode of Friends from TV and burned it to dvd then lent me the DVD would I be allowed to watch the DVD on my PC without having to buy a licence?
Also I understand if one has a tv set but use it only for playing back videos and dvd but not for receiving TV signals I would not have to buy a licence. Do you agree please.

[Richard_G]

No, definitely not. The licence allows you under what was section 1(1) of the Wireless Telegraphy Act 1949 (as amended) (it has now been superceded by Section 8 of the Communications Act 2006),to install and use apparatus for wireless telegraphy. Note the use of the word install. The legal definition in this case is to attach to an aerial and power, if it is self contained portable equipment with a built in aerial and powered by batteries, you install as soon as you fit the batteries. The actual offence is having apparatus in your custody or control that may be used, or having reasonable grounds to suspect that others may use it, in contravention of the Act.

It is for this reason that if you buy a TV, video recorder, satellite receiver or Freeview box, the supplier must take your name and address and pass it on to the Licensing authorities. My partner bought a TV for the kitchen and subsequently accused me of not having a TV licence because they had written to her saying there wasn't one on record. There was but in my name and not hers even though the address was the same. Had it been a house converted into flats for instance, they would have been correct, but it ain't!

Playback of a DVD on a PC is slightly different. It wouldn't require a licence if it was a bought or rented DVD intended for home use, but if it was a TV programme recorded to DVD by somebody else, strictly speaking you would need one as you have the ability, and have proved you have used it, to watch broadcast TV programmes.

PS, I don't work for the TV licensing authority but for a very closely related organisation.

[kasfig]

Thanks - a friend of mine has a tv set but he disconnects the aerial and "detunes" the tv set because he only uses it to watch dvds on . My understanding is he has the blessing of the tv licencing authority to do with without having to buy a licence
Presumably he can do this to watch commercial dvds but if he is watching dvds made up by a friend which dvds contained recordings of broadcast tv programs would the situation be different/
Thanks
Ian

[Richard_G]

From my (fairly close) knowledge of the operating procedures (which, I hasten to add, I do not approve of) of the licensing authorities, he would be prosecuted for simply owning a TV set, connected or not.

A friend was taken to court for not having a TV licence for a 3 month period (he did not renew immediately the old one expired but got a new one 3 months later). The only thing was, although he owned a TV set, it was not in use as he was living in Spain for that 3 months! He had to produce a letter from a Spanish solicitor and his plane ticket bookings before they accepted it.

I'm not sure who are worse, TV licensing or the parasites that operate speed cameras.........

[kasfig]

At one time I think if you watched tv on a PC you could do so without having a licence but now that loophole is closed (so I read somewhere) I would welcome your opinion on this.
In regard to the earlier point : if one had a tv set tuned in to the DVD channel and damaged the tv so it couldnt have an aerial plugged in or the tv channels tuned in I suppose the tv would no longer come under the definition of a tuneable device capable of receiving or displaying a tv signal.
Please do you know of any devices that can have dvds or vcr's attached to them and display them on screen (and sound too) but are not capable of receiving or tuning tv signals. (other than computers of course)

[Richard_G]

A monitor. Not a computer monitor but the sort of thing used by broadcasters to check their output. Something like this would do the job nicely http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/SONY-26-INCH-COLOUR-MONITOR-RGB-SVHS-COMPOSITE-VIDEO_W0QQitemZ20...QQcmdZViewItem

[kasfig]

Thank you for this. Does this monitor have its own sound output or would I have to attach speakers please?
I have just found a very good article on tv licences on Wikipedia website. It says if you have a telly but only use it to watch dvds and videos you dont h ave to get a licence. However you have to notify the licencing authority first. Apparently they send a chap round to check you out and then make a note on their records.
The same wikipedia article mentioned that recording of TV programs could be in breach of COPYRIGHT.
Please do you know whether , strictly speaking, it is legal or illegal to record tv programs to dvd or videocassette? I believe in Australia one is allowed to record tv programs but only watch them once. However I dont know what the law in UK is.

[Richard_G]

Strictly speaking, as has already been said, it is illegal to record any TV programme. I suspect that if you went down the route you are suggesting and get somone in to check that you were unable to receive TV signals and they saw a tape of a TV programme, you would be advised that you would still need a licence. Not only that, but the person that recorded the programme and passed it onto you would also be committing the offence of distributing copyright material without the copyright holders permission.

Some broadcast monitors have speakers but not all. But if you are using it for DVDs only, then surely you'd have your 5.1 surround sound system connected anyway?

[kasfig]

Thank you for this information. I will try and clarify more the copyright situation about home recording of tv programs.
Also the situation of copyright perhaps if it is illegal to record the material then the matter of copyright doesnt arise anyway. However in the event it is legal to record then the issue of copyright arises. The could be a distinction between copying for personal use and copying to give to friends.
From my perusal of the wikipedia article about tv licences then if one is playing back a recording of a tv program then the licence requirement can be waived on the basis I already mentioned because basically the tv licence situation exists essentially to cover only viewing live the broadcasts of tv companies.
it seems moves are afoot to make the law more reasonable the main aim seems to be to penalise serious instances of abuse at the same time to stop penalising innocent home users. in australia it is legal to record tv programs then watch the recorded material one time only.