Motion-compensated frame interpolators?

[Disco Makberto]

Hello, there!

Apparently, there are some motion-compensated frame interpolators, but they are either too expensive for my budget or too technical for my knowlege. Do you know of any mid-point software in this category?

Before I continue, I know nothing about these frame interpolators except that they supposedly recreate missing or deleted frames on videos. But are they really any good?

I would love to try one, but again, it has been hard for me to find one for a "lay person" like myself.

Cordially,

Carlos Albert L. "Disco Mak"

P.S.: Yeah, I forgot. For what kind of video do I need such softwares? The more they deal with, the better. But if I have to choose: MPEG2 DVD-compliant files! Thanks. CAL

[Soopafresh]

There was a GUI based app around a few years ago, MotionPerfect.

http://www.goodervideo.com/products/MP.html

AVI example at the bottom of the page.

[Disco Makberto]

Many thanks, Soopafresh! But please let me ask you another question. For instance, I have this SVCD MPEG file in PAL (480 x 576, 25). How do I change it to a lossless AVI, edit it with MotionPerfect, and return it back losslessly to the SVCD MPEG file in PAL while keeping the same quality all the way through?

I have an idea about how to go from MPEG to lossless AVI, but what about from this lossless AVI back to the original MPEG?

CAL "Disco Mak"

[Disco Makberto]

Hi, one more time!

Soopafresh, I checked the AVI example, and this made me very hopeful. My video doesn't move as much as the media-man on the example, so I think I will get great results (once I learn how to handle the lossless issue).

Two thumbs up,

Carlos Albert L. "Disco Mak"

[guns1inger]

Going from mpeg to lossless is simple. Open the mpeg file in Virtualdubmpeg2, and choose a lossless codec to save to. Use fast recompress as the mode. Some like Huffyuv, I like Lagarith, and there are many others to choose from.

You cannot go back to mpeg without some loss, as mpeg is a lossy codec, and even at a high bitrate, some data will be discarded. If you keep the bitrate at least as high at it originally was, you may find that what is discarded isn't visible.

[jagabo]

AVISynth slow motion script:

https://forum.videohelp.com/viewtopic.php?p=1533994&sid=3a990febd2767a398ea1af13213f246b#1533994

Sample:

https://forum.videohelp.com/viewtopic.php?p=1534640&sid=3a990febd2767a398ea1af13213f246b#1534640

[Disco Makberto]

Guns1Inger,

Please excuse me for this dumb question, but how do I choose the codecs you mentioned? I just dowloaded VirtualDub MPEG2, so this is the first time I am using it (though I had heard of it many times). I saved the MPEG as AVI using the F7 key after having opened the MPEG, but I am not sure which kind of codecs they are using.

CAL "Disco Mak"

[guns1inger]

You will have to download and install the codecs first. You will find them under Codecs in the Tools section. I believe both of them are installed by unzipping to a folder, then right-clicking on the file with the extension .inf (windows calls it a setup file) and selecting Install.

Once inside Virtualdubmpeg2, click on Video -> Compression and you can set your codec and configure it. Once that is done, you can click on File -> Save as to save the new copy.

[Soopafresh]

The MotionPerfect Site says their product works well with the Huffyuv codec.

http://www.free-codecs.com/download/HuffYUV.htm

It is also supposed to work with Avisynth AVS scripts, which would mean NO need to create a temporary AVI file. I can't go through the instructional process again - just do a search on DGindex and AVS script creation.

[Disco Makberto]

Hi!

Guns1Inger, I am doing everything you told me, but for some reason the resulting AVI has a 3:2 aspect ratio while the original MPEG has a 4:3 aspect ratio. What am I doing wrong here? At this moment, I am trying to figure this out.

Soopafresh, thanks for your further comments. I will definitely keep your Avisynth AVS script method as an alternative.

CAL "Disco Mak"

[Disco Makberto]

Good points, Jagabo!

CAL "Disco Mak"

[jagabo]

for some reason the resulting AVI has a 3:2 aspect ratio while the original MPEG has a 4:3 aspect ratio. What am I doing wrong here?

You're not doing anything wrong. MPEG supports a Display Aspect Ratio flag that is independent of the frame dimensions. So a 720x480 MPEG file can be 4:3 or 16:9 DAR. AVI does not support DAR flags (individual codecs can but that data is private to the codec). Programs that report DAR of AVI files usually just report the relative frame dimensions (often call SAR, or Storage Aspect Ratio). All you have to do is tell your MPEG encoder the correct DAR when you compress back to MPEG.

If your final output is going to be AVI you should resize so that the SAR matches the DAR. For examle, if your MPEG source is 720x480, 4:3 DAR, resize to 640x480 AVI.

[Disco Makberto]

Hello, Jagabo!

Thanks for your explanation.

Actually, Jagabo, if I start off with MPEG, and then this MPEG is contained losslessly in an AVI, I can just rename the AVI to MPEG, and this way I come back losslessly to my original MPEG. At least this has been working for me. However, I also think that the MPEG source has to be an elementary stream (1 video, 1 audio). Conclusively, I think I don't need an MPEG encoder for my final step.

I don't quite understand the similarities between an MPEG 720X480, 4:3, and a AVI 640X480. If my intentions are to go full image via TV or computer monitor, what's in my advantage?

CAL "Disco Mak"

[Disco Makberto]

Dear eReaders,

I am happy to report that MotionPerfect works. I was able to reconstruct 3 frames that were defective using this tool. The results were not perfect, but this software definitely makes a pretty decent job. At least, I can assure you that the results are more desirable than leaving the video as it was.

To achieve better resutls, I isolated the section with the defective frames, and after applying some MotionPerfect parameters, the resulting video was slowed down to 25% of original playback. Hence, I need to speed it up to 4x to make it compatible with the rest of the original video and join the segments. But do you know how do I achieve this? I tried re-encoding it via Super, but the resulting video is also slowed down.

See ya' all,

CAL "Disco Mak"

[Cornucopia]

Hello, Jagabo!

Thanks for your explanation.

Actually, Jagabo, if I start off with MPEG, and then this MPEG is contained losslessly in an AVI, I can just rename the AVI to MPEG, and this way I come back losslessly to my original MPEG. At least this has been working for me. However, I also think that the MPEG source has to be an elementary stream (1 video, 1 audio). Conclusively, I think I don't need an MPEG encoder for my final step.

I don't quite understand the similarities between an MPEG 720X480, 4:3, and a AVI 640X480. If my intentions are to go full image via TV or computer monitor, what's in my advantage?

CAL "Disco Mak"

You start off with MPEG, but when doing adjustment (resize, change of compression) what comes out is NOT MPEG anymore, but AVI (with whatever codec you choose). Using "lossless" compression means it's compressed in a similar manner to the way a Zip file would be (~2:1 only) and this is compressed COMPARED TO TOTAL UNCOMPRESSED, not compared to MPEG or any other type of compression. It's lossless because, like Zip, when you uncompress, you're back to the same bytes as your uncompressed source.
How do you have an uncompressed source when giving it an MPEG, you say?
Because in decoding/converting/displaying the MPEG, the program UNCOMPRESSES it first.

...

If you want to end up back again to something playable on a settop DVD player, you MUST encode again (WITH LOSS) to MPEG (and re-author).
The use of elementary vs. muxed streams just depends upon the expectation of the DVD authoring software you're using. Do whichever works for that program.

Assuming again that you're going to settop DVD, you're making an MPEG, not an AVI, so you don't really even need to worry about resizing to 640x480 (square pixel). That would only be valid if you were saving as AVI to be played only on a computer with a computer monitor (or encoding to DivX/Xvid for those players that accept that type--special case).
You want to keep your size 720x480 ALL THE WAY THROUGH THE PROCESS. Just remember when encoding again to MPEG, you set the DAR to be 4:3 (if that was your original DAR, which I believe it was).

Scott

[Alex_ander]

It is also supposed to work with Avisynth AVS scripts, which would mean NO need to create a temporary AVI file.

Their FAQ says NO to .avs:
http://www.dynapel.com/support/faq_mp_eng.shtml#12

[Soopafresh]

Q Can MotionPerfect open AviSynth scripts (*.avs)?

A Yes. You will need to set the file wildcards to *.* in the open dialog.


http://www.goodervideo.com/support/MpFAQ.html#_I_understand_that




------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I think you're looking at an old FAQ, Alex_ander

[Disco Makberto]

Glad to see you again, Scott!

Yes, you are right, my intended final aspect ratio is 4:3 coming back to the state as the original MPEG.

Actually, when renaming the AVI to MPEG, the only problem I have is the aspect ratio. The video scale remains the same.

Take care,

Carlos Albert Lacaye "Disco Mak"

[Cornucopia]

I'm not sure that I was saying it clearly enough before, but...

With the EXTREMELY RARE EXCEPTION of an MPEG video stream wrapped inside of an AVI (and NOT counting MP4/DivX/Xvid), you don't encode to "AVI" and have it become "MPEG" just by renaming. Won't work.

re: Aspect Ratio

MPEG supports square and non-square ARs. Most players do a good job of recognizing the AR flag.
For all intents and purposes, the AVI container doesn't support non-square ARs (in DV and MP4/Divx/Xvid, there is one because the flag is with the video stream not the container). Even for those streams, MOST players don't recognize the AR flag.

But, you don't have to really worry about that...

A pixel is a pixel is a pixel.
If you have 720x480 image and change containers: MPEG->AVI->MPEG, it doesn't matter whether the intermediate format "supports" AR settings or not. You just need to make sure that the setting of the flag is done correctly for the final encode (based on the original).

Like has been said--if you do processing (like Motion-compensated frame interpolation), you'll need to re-encode NO MATTER which codec you use.

re: Slowing down/Speeding up

A "slowed-down" video might look like this:

• A_______B_______C_______D (where there are only 4 frames, they just Hold onscreen for longer)

or it might look like this:

• A_A_A_A_B_B_B_B_C_C_C_C_D (where there are 16 short, fast frames which have duplications)

If your original sequence was:

• A_B_C_D

you can get back to the original rate in Virtualdub (or VdubMod or VdubMPEG2) by doing:
[Video | FrameRate | Source Rate Adjustment] and set to original clip's framerate---Only using 1st instance.

you can get back to the original rate in Virtualdub (or VdubMod or VdubMPEG2) by doing:
[Video | FrameRate | FrameRate Conversion] and decimate by 4---Only using 2nd instance.

HTH,

Scott

[Soopafresh]

Scott - you distilled 2 chapters of video production into two paragraphs. Well done !

[Disco Makberto]

Absolutely agree with Soopafresh! Scott lis giving us extremely valuable information.

Now, let me put everything into practice.

CAL "Disco Mak"

[Disco Makberto]

Cornucopia,

I did what you told us in regards to speeding up the slow down version via VirtualDub MPEG. While I was able to change the fps from 29.97 back to 25.00, the video length is not the same when compared to the original 25.00 file. The original file has no interpolation with 3 corrupted frames, and the resulting file has interpolation after deleting these 3 corruped frames. Both are at 25 fps.

To make a long story short, I just would like to know if you (or any of our readers) know of any tool that can let me change the fps and the video length too. I need to change it from 29.97 fps to 25 fps and from 0:01:134 to 0:00:440 (this is just to give you an idea as I can redo it and change the parameters if need be).

Many thanks,

CAL "Disco Mak"

[Disco Makberto]

Hi, one more time!

I think I was able to work this out using MotionPerfect, VirtualDub MPEG, and GSpot. Still, I still have some minor issues that I think I can overcome as I don't want to keep asking for everything.

As a little service to the community, and siding with the price conscious users like myself, I can tell you that the technology behind MotionPerfect has been licensed to much cheaper softwares like some editors from MGI (now Roxio). However, Soopafresh deserves most of the credit for this discovery since he brought MotionPerfect to my attention.

Greetings,

CAL "Disco Mak"

[manono]

As a little service to the community, and siding with the price conscious users like myself...

MVTools is free:

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=102071&highlight=MVTools

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=84770

[jagabo]

To make a long story short, I just would like to know if you (or any of our readers) know of any tool that can let me change the fps and the video length too. I need to change it from 29.97 fps to 25 fps and from 0:01:134 to 0:00:440

So you have a 1.134 second video at 29.97 fps and want to create a 0.44 second video at 25 fps?

1.134 seconds at 29.97 fps is 34 frames. 0.44 seconds at 25 fps is 11 frames. Since that is so close to a ratio of 3:1 I'd forget about frame interpolation and just throw away 2 out of every three frames.

You can do this easily with VirtualDub on the frame rate dialog. Set "Source Rate Adjustment" to "Change to [75] frames per second". Set "Frame Rate Conversion" to "Process every third frame (decimate by 3)".

[Disco Makberto]

Hi, Manono!

I have the impression that MVTools uses the average method for interpolation while MotionPerfect uses the pelkinetics method. I am not an expert in any of those, and I cannot vouch which one is better or if they are similar or not, but MotionPerfect (or any other software using pelkintetics) gives pretty decent results. Anyway, MVTools is certainly worth considering.

CAL "Disco Mak"

[Disco Makberto]

Jagabo,

Excellent observation! And I can definitely use your method, at least in this case. However, I suspect that there will be other cases in which I won't have a whole number ratio. Incidentally, the 1.134 seconds file is already interpolated. I needed to make it 0.44 seconds to match the file before the interpolation (that is, before taking out the 3 frames). Thus, once the interpolated file is transformed to 0.44 (after changing fps as well), I just need to join it with the rest of the original file (which didn't have damaged frames), and I will have a whole new and complete music video clip.

Just to sort of reparaphrasing my main point, the original 0.44 seconds file is the isolated file before interpolation, and the resulting file after interpolation is a 1.134 seconds file. Then, I transformed this interpolated file to 0.44 as a replacement for the original non-interpolated file. Both the beginning non-interpolated file and the final interpolated file are 0.44 seconds files so as to replace one for the other.

MotionPefect works, but it's a bit buggy. I'll try to find a re-sizing tool, and/or I will post a request.

Good morning!

Carlos Albert "Disco Mak"