Adobe Encore or DVD Architect?

[frappawotsit]

Ok, for my next question.....

it's comparison time.

In the considered opinion (yes i know opinions are subjective) which of the following two DVD Authoring programs are better?

By better, considerations in order are:

1) Quality
2) Range of Included Templates
3) Flexibility

and the two programs are:

1) Adobe Encore DVD or
2) Sony DVD Architect 4 (full)

I don't know if it affects opinions, but I use Adobe Premier Elements 3 as my editor.

I've been using DVDA4, but as i'm using Adobe Premier Elements 3 to edit, i wondered if i'd get any noticeable benefit from sticking with Adobe for the DVD Authoring, hence my consideration of Encore DVD.

Thanks.

[roma_turok]

Adobe Encore DVD better.
generally you have 30 day trial from both software
You can try both and decide.

[guns1inger]

Adobe Encore has better integration with photoshop and premiere. It also has a history of being buggy, and not handling all compliant footage. I see no benefit from using Encore with Elements.

DVDA4 (full version) cannot be purchased on it's own. Only the studio version can. DVDA must be purchased with Vegas.

Of your three criteria, I would say

1) Quality : is down to your encoding and preparation. Good authoring tools are used simply to assemble all the parts you have already created. They should not alter the source in any way, so quality is moot.

2) Range of included templates : is something that should rate at around 2% in the decision making process. If you want slick templates, Buy a Mac and the iLife suite. They seem to have wasted a large amount of time making pretty templates for lazy people. Real authoring tools don't ship with lots of pretty templates because they expect (rightly) that you will create your own. They do ship with a few cheesy templates to show how badly it can be done.

3) Flexibility : has some merit, however at this level they can all do the basics and then some. However the secret is not the tool, it is planning. And neither will do this for you.

Personally, I don't like either of them. I played with Encore, but it took Adobe way to long to get it working to a reasonable level, and it still isn't right. I find DVDA's interface ugly and annoying, and unintuitive to use (and this is from a Vegas user)

I think you should expand your horizons and include Ulead DVD Workshop and DVD Lab Pro in your search.

DLP is by far the most flexible this side of Scenarist, and DVDWS is the most stable, if a little long in the tooth.

[frappawotsit]

2) Range of included templates : is something that should rate at around 2% in the decision making process. If you want slick templates, Buy a Mac and the iLife suite. They seem to have wasted a large amount of time making pretty templates for lazy people. Real authoring tools don't ship with lots of pretty templates because they expect (rightly) that you will create your own. They do ship with a few cheesy templates to show how badly it can be done.

Wow.. consider myself slapped down...

Ok, so i take on board this advice, but equally have to be honest to myself and say that at this moment in time, i'm nowhere even close to being able to produce the kind of templates i'd like to.

While I accept that to those that can produce HQ templates for themselves, the included ones are "cheesy" to those of us that are not that graphically minded, the "cheesy" ones are our lifeline.

I guess I was hoping that if there are all these talented graphic designers around, surely there must be some "reasonable" as oppose to cheesy templates to help "inspire" us less talented cheese freaks. While we're learning, we still want our productions to look as good as they can, rather than a potentially good movie being spoilt but a completely crap front end because our design capability has let us down!

Advice regarding Encore / DVDA greatfully received, and food for thought regarding the other apps.

[GeorgeW]

Given a choice between Encore DVD 2.0 and DVD Architect 4 (Full), I would recommend "fill in the blank" ( :P )

Just kidding -- it really depends on your needs (now, and projected future needs) in the DVD Authoring world. Do you see yourself making Advanced SD DVD's (with advanced SD DVD Features). Do you see yourself moving on to other Adobe products (which would have better integration with Encore)

Do you see yourself moving forward with high-def DVD's? If so, which of these do you feel has a better chance of supporting BOTH HD Formats in the future (hint: I don't think Sony will support BOTH formats)

Do you need the software to encode for you, or will you be preparing your compliant assets using other tools?

Which interface are you more comfortable with? Have you tried DVD Encore 2.0 yet

Both of these have advantages over the other (in terms of workflow and DVD Authoring features). I think the only way to make the right decision is for you to try them side-by-side...

If I was forced to pick one of these two, I would go with DVDA4 because it offers Multiple-angles, Buttons Over Video, some "basic" scripting functionality, and a Realtime preview of my DVD on an external monitor.

But I can see why others would go with Encore because of its integration with other Adobe products, auto-chaptering at intervals if you are so inclined, ability to add Closed Captions, a visual Flowchart of the DVD, and a Timeline workflow that will allow you to build a timeline using multiple assets while being able to add chapters at any point along that timeline.

Regards,
George

[frappawotsit]

Given a choice between Encore DVD 2.0 and DVD Architect 4 (Full), I would recommend "fill in the blank" ( :P )

Just kidding -- it really depends on your needs (now, and projected future needs) in the DVD Authoring world. Do you see yourself making Advanced SD DVD's (with advanced SD DVD Features). Do you see yourself moving on to other Adobe products (which would have better integration with Encore)

Do you see yourself moving forward with high-def DVD's? If so, which of these do you feel has a better chance of supporting BOTH HD Formats in the future (hint: I don't think Sony will support BOTH formats)

Do you need the software to encode for you, or will you be preparing your compliant assets using other tools?

Which interface are you more comfortable with? Have you tried DVD Encore 2.0 yet

Both of these have advantages over the other (in terms of workflow and DVD Authoring features). I think the only way to make the right decision is for you to try them side-by-side...

If I was forced to pick one of these two, I would go with DVDA4 because it offers Multiple-angles, Buttons Over Video, some "basic" scripting functionality, and a Realtime preview of my DVD on an external monitor.

But I can see why others would go with Encore because of its integration with other Adobe products, auto-chaptering at intervals if you are so inclined, ability to add Closed Captions, a visual Flowchart of the DVD, and a Timeline workflow that will allow you to build a timeline using multiple assets while being able to add chapters at any point along that timeline.

Regards,
George

thankyou for the comprehensive reply... many valuable points to note!

I haven't tried Adobe Encore 2 yet, only DVDA 4. I guess i'm only considering Encore because it seems reasonably well regarded and it so happens that as i use Premier Elements 3 that I thought it may "intergrate" better?

To be honest, my useage is never going to be much more than the most basic need to put a "pleasant" front end to my home movies. We're talking, kids birthdays, family events, nothing more demanding than that.

I want to be able to place chapters wherever i choose to make finding certain points easier and possibly i'd like to add more than one home movie to a DVD and use the menu to select which movie to watch.

For example, i have 4 children, so it'd be lovely to have a short 15-20 minute movie covering the highlights of each of their birthdays, all on one DVD, then select which childs to watch from the DVD front end menu.

I'm pretty sure that short of it "finishing off" the presentation of my DVD, the functionality i require is VERY basic. BUT, as basic as it is, I'd still like it to look nice, hence my query regarding "templates". Preferably not too cheesy (of course)

My editing tool is Adobe Premier Elements 3, which i use to encode to mpeg2, the DVD Authoring s/w merely needs to add the Menu/Chapter functionality then output the Video_TS files etc.

I use imgburn2 to build them back to an image and then to write to disc.

Does all that make sense? (it does in the less than perfect world of my head)

Thanks again.

[GeorgeW]

Well, based on what you listed for requirements, I would say that DVDA4 (Full) and DVD Encore 2 are OVERKILL.

You might find Ulead's DVD MovieFactory 6 Plus a nice authoring application (with some added values such as disc utilities, music cd's, software dvd player, dvd copy software -- non-copyprotected, and authoring is a "snap" -- much more user-friendly and wizard-driven than DVDA or Encore 2). It will give you nice menus, with button choices to go to a specific Title, and also include Chapter selection menus (to jump to a specific Chapter and play from that point to the end of that Title).

The MF 6 Plus version was just announced, so the TRIAL might not be ready yet. You can download the MF5 Plus TRIAL (fully functional for 30 days), then by that time the MF6 Plus TRIAL should be ready...

btw, IMGBURN 2 can burn directly to disc from a DVD Folder (i.e. you don't have to create an ISO Image first).

Regards,
George

[frappawotsit]

Well, based on what you listed for requirements, I would say that DVDA4 (Full) and DVD Encore 2 are OVERKILL.

You might find Ulead's DVD MovieFactory 6 Plus a nice authoring application (with some added values such as disc utilities, music cd's, software dvd player, dvd copy software -- non-copyprotected, and authoring is a "snap" -- much more user-friendly and wizard-driven than DVDA or Encore 2). It will give you nice menus, with button choices to go to a specific Title, and also include Chapter selection menus (to jump to a specific Chapter and play from that point to the end of that Title).

The MF 6 Plus version was just announced, so the TRIAL might not be ready yet. You can download the MF5 Plus TRIAL (fully functional for 30 days), then by that time the MF6 Plus TRIAL should be ready...

btw, IMGBURN 2 can burn directly to disc from a DVD Folder (i.e. you don't have to create an ISO Image first).

Regards,
George

Hmmm, the options are increasing....

I'll look into MF6Plus for sure! I guess even though my requirement is low, i've always used HQ apps because the internal workings are of a higher grade. For example, a cheap editing s/w would probably meet my requirement, but it's encoder would be of a lower standard, so would effect the end quality of my movie. I guess I just assumed that it would be the same principle for the Authoring s/w too. I don't need the FULL functionality, but i DO want my basic requirement to be of the highest quality i can get. Does that make sense? Generally that means i have to have applications that are WAY beyond me, and where i barely scratch the surface of ability, but at least i know the quality of the output is as good as i personally can get.

As for the IMGburn2 tip... I'm not sure how you mean, my process is normally as follows:

Complete my edit in Prem Elements 3, render/encode to mpeg2.
Import that into DVDA4, struggle with dvd menu, export to Video_TS folder
ImgBurn2 insists i use the "build" setting to create an iso, then change to "write" setting to burn to disc.

where do i change my procedure to allow ImgBurn2 to go straight to disc?

[GeorgeW]

In IMGBurn 2.x, in BUILD mode, you have an option to output to IMAGE, or direct to Disc. change the output mode by selecting (OUTPUT / Device or Image File -- DEVICE will go directly to disc). There's also a little icon that can toggle the output mode (lower left side of the build screen).

Regarding the Authoring -- it comes down to the encoding when talking about the "quality" of the encoded video. The underlying mpeg encoder is the same for all of these (Mainconcept's mpeg encoder). Although each software company might make their own specific tweaks (motion search parameters, GOP defaults, and other behind-the-scenes settings in the encoder), but I don't think you can see any visible difference if you can afford to use a high bitrate (like around 7mbps). So in terms of quality of the video, you could spend hundreds on DVDA bundled with Vegas, or hundreds on Encore DVD 2.0, or spend around $80 for DVD MovieFactory 5 or 6 Plus that uses the same encoding engine

Also, there are more mpeg video sources today such as Set-top DVD Recorders, and DVD Camcorders. And even if you don't use them today, you might find that as your source video at some point. DVD Moviefactory has a nice Import from DVD function (that will extract the mpegs from those source, and use them "asis" without re-encoding them when constucting a new DVD). Of course, the higher-end programs can also use dvd-complaint mpeg source without re-encoding.

Regards,
George

[frappawotsit]

In IMGBurn 2.x, in BUILD mode, you have an option to output to IMAGE, or direct to Disc. change the output mode by selecting (OUTPUT / Device or Image File -- DEVICE will go directly to disc). There's also a little icon that can toggle the output mode (lower left side of the build screen).

Regarding the Authoring -- it comes down to the encoding when talking about the "quality" of the encoded video. The underlying mpeg encoder is the same for all of these (Mainconcept's mpeg encoder). Although each software company might make their own specific tweaks (motion search parameters, GOP defaults, and other behind-the-scenes settings in the encoder), but I don't think you can see any visible difference if you can afford to use a high bitrate (like around 7mbps). So in terms of quality of the video, you could spend hundreds on DVDA bundled with Vegas, or hundreds on Encore DVD 2.0, or spend around $80 for DVD MovieFactory 5 or 6 Plus that uses the same encoding engine

Also, there are more mpeg video sources today such as Set-top DVD Recorders, and DVD Camcorders. And even if you don't use them today, you might find that as your source video at some point. DVD Moviefactory has a nice Import from DVD function (that will extract the mpegs from those source, and use them "asis" without re-encoding them when constucting a new DVD). Of course, the higher-end programs can also use dvd-complaint mpeg source without re-encoding.

Regards,
George

hmmm well you learn something new everyday i guess. I kind of new broadly that the quality was down to the encoder, but i didn't know that the encoder was the same in the top end stuff as the mid-range stuff!!! I kind of (wrongly) assumed, you get what you pay for!

The tip on IMGBurn2 is a good one too, thanks.

DVD Moviefactory 6 plus does look kinda nice, i was looking at the website last night.... definately a "serious" consideration at the moment!

thanks again, it's nice to receive some constructive advice.

-Stu.

[Jeff_NJ]

If your looking for templates, just search on the web for some free backgrounds. There are thousands out there. Use those as a starting point for your menus.

Jeff

[lordsmurf]

Punt.

Look into Ulead DVD Workshop 2

I used Encore and hated its various limitations and quirks. DVD Architect looks nice, and the power is there, but good luck using it. I find DVDWS2 easier, and it can do pretty much everything the others can (they all vary here and there).

[GeorgeW]

Punt.

Look into Ulead DVD Workshop 2

I used Encore and hated its various limitations and quirks. DVD Architect looks nice, and the power is there, but good luck using it. I find DVDWS2 easier, and it can do pretty much everything the others can (they all vary here and there).

Sorry lordsmurf, but I have to strongly disagree that DWS2 can do "pretty much everything the others can" -- I do agree that DVD WS 2.x has a great user-friendly interface, but in terms of features/functionality, I'm afraid it has fallen behind other SD DVD Authoring packages. And that's not to mention that at this point, Corel's future plans for DVD WS are unknown -- the current status for DVD WS is "ON HOLD" (last I heard).


Can you please explain Encore 2.0's "limitations" (to me Encore 2.0 has more features than DWS2.x)

Can you please explain the problem with using DVD Architect 4 (DVDA4 also has more features than DWS2.x)

For the record, I use (or have tried) the following software (Full or Trial indicated)
-DVD WS 2.x (Full)
-DVD Architect 4.0b (Full)
-Encore DVD 2.0 (Trial)
-DVD Lab Pro 2.27 (Full)
-DVD MovieFactory 1,2,3,4,5Plus, 6Plus (Full)
-DVD Architect Studio 3.0b (Full)
-DVD Architect Studio 4.0 (Trial)

Regards,
George

[ozymango]

Sorry lordsmurf, but I have to strongly disagree that DWS2 can do "pretty much everything the others can" -- I do agree that DVD WS 2.x has a great user-friendly interface, but in terms of features/functionality, I'm afraid it has fallen behind other SD DVD Authoring packages.

Sorry, I'll have to disagree with you and agree with lordsmurf for this user.

As he stated, his needs/desires are:

To be honest, my useage is never going to be much more than the most basic need to put a "pleasant" front end to my home movies. We're talking, kids birthdays, family events, nothing more demanding than that.

I want to be able to place chapters wherever i choose to make finding certain points easier and possibly i'd like to add more than one home movie to a DVD and use the menu to select which movie to watch.

For example, i have 4 children, so it'd be lovely to have a short 15-20 minute movie covering the highlights of each of their birthdays, all on one DVD, then select which childs to watch from the DVD front end menu.

I'm pretty sure that short of it "finishing off" the presentation of my DVD, the functionality i require is VERY basic. BUT, as basic as it is, I'd still like it to look nice, hence my query regarding "templates". Preferably not too cheesy (of course).

Based on this criteria, boy oh boy is DVD Workshop gonna make you happy!!!

Are the other programs able to do more kinds of DVD authoring? Absolutely! But for "features/functionality," don't write off DVDWS because it can't jump through every single hoopt out there (multiple angles, etc.).

And for this particular user, sure sounds like DVDWS would be a great tool!

[GeorgeW]

ozymango, please re-read the statement I disagreed with

In terms of this users' needs, I'd agree that DWS2.x will probably meet most needs for this user (as long as no widescreen menus are needed). But in terms of COST, there are plenty of other solutions that can also meet the requirements (at a much lower cost). But again, that's not what I disagreed with -- it was the statement that DWS2 can do "pretty much everything the others can..."

And that's not to mention the other point about no clear direction on the future for DWS

Regards,
George

[ozymango]

ozymango, please re-read the statement I disagreed with

I got you entirely and please note my qualifier -- for this user.

Very, very, very, very important qualifier: As much as I enjoy all various points of view about what people like for their own uses, it's very easy, in these forums, for us to go off on tangents that don't reference the original poster's needs.

So, all of us going off on whatever program we like, for our reasons, is very fun and entertaining and all that but I've noticed this very often gets done at the expense of helping the actual person who asked for actual help.

Now, it is true that the OP asked about two entirely different programs than the one lordsmurf (and I, in essence), recommended, but I'll offer that both lordsmurf and I are considering that actual current needs and desires of the OP. So there's that.

Again, I have no disagreement that other programs do more, and sometimes for less money. But as for other stuff, we're going off on tangents that, while interesting to yak about, have been yakked about ad nauseum on this board. By everyone, including me.

[GeorgeW]

ozymango, please re-read the statement I disagreed with

I got you entirely and please note my qualifier -- for this user.

Very, very, very, very important qualifier: As much as I enjoy all various points of view about what people like for their own uses, it's very easy, in these forums, for us to go off on tangents that don't reference the original poster's needs.

So, all of us going off on whatever program we like, for our reasons, is very fun and entertaining and all that but I've noticed this very often gets done at the expense of helping the actual person who asked for actual help.

Now, it is true that the OP asked about two entirely different programs than the one lordsmurf (and I, in essence), recommended, but I'll offer that both lordsmurf and I are considering that actual current needs and desires of the OP. So there's that.

Again, I have no disagreement that other programs do more, and sometimes for less money. But as for other stuff, we're going off on tangents that, while interesting to yak about, have been yakked about ad nauseum on this board. By everyone, including me.

ozymango -- as I said -- I agree that DWS2.x would probably meet this users' requirements (save widescreen menus). What I disagreed with was the comment/claim that DWS2.x can do "pretty much everything the others can" -- because I don't think that is an accurate statement, and I feel it is misleading to the OP (and anyone else who might read this thread for suggestions/advice).

After finding out what the OP actually needed, I even sugested that DVDA4 and Encore DVD 2.0 might be OVERKILL, and recommended a different product from Corel/Ulead (which in some ways offers more features than DWS2.x -- save full menu setup/control and a couple of other things).

But hey, I'm glad you and lordsmurf are such DWS fans. It's a good product, and at one time was a leader in the SD DVD Authoring world. And its user-friendly interface makes it pretty easy to create a DVD.

Regards,
George

[lordsmurf]

Can you please explain Encore 2.0's "limitations" (to me Encore 2.0 has more features than DWS2.x)

Encore has several limitations. It only uses part of the DVD spec. The most glaring one was how it will only use 720x480. It is unable to use 352x480, the second-most popular res. I forget how it reacts to 704x480 and 352x240. Encore is also not very user-friendly.

DVDWS2's only problem is an inability to use 23.976 progressive. However, the only people who would like use that (at home, at least) are video pirates with tons of downloaded crap. I frankly don't care about that audience one lick. They can all go to hell.

It depends on how advanced you want to get. But DVDWS2 has most options folks at home would like, while something like Encore is more of a DV-only type solution (720x480, few fancy menus, little gloss, nothing more).

I forget what DVD Architect's weaknesses were. There were several, one was aggravating, but some of that stuff is a blur, it was tested months ago, and my notes are in disarray.

They all lack support for DTS (that I recall).

Sorry GeorgeW, but if you think Encore and Architect are any more advanced that DVDWS2, you're kidding yourself. They are all at the same level, in terms of abilities. DVDWS2 has the easiest interface, and some of the most common-desired home options. With a few exceptions, they all handle video/audio about the same. Please spare me the anti-Ulead or fanboy-of-whatever-product attitudes. Nobody is trying to talk you out of your choice. We're making suggestions to the OP.

For a barebones user, even TDA and SVCD2DVD are great authoring solutions.

[GeorgeW]

Sorry GeorgeW, but if you think Encore and Architect are any more advanced that DVDWS2, you're kidding yourself. They are all at the same level, in terms of abilities. DVDWS2 has the easiest interface, and some of the most common-desired home options. With a few exceptions, they all handle video/audio about the same. Please spare me the anti-Ulead or fanboy-of-whatever-product attitudes. Nobody is trying to talk you out of your choice. We're making suggestions to the OP.

lordsmurf, I'm not anti-Ulead at all (I don't know where that came from). In fact, I even recommended Ulead's DVD Moviefactory 6 Plus (after finding out what the requirements were).

Actually, the new MovieFactory 6 Plus is quite interesting. It brings some functionality of VideoStudio in terms of "editing" (basic editing, and it's a snap to spice up your video by quickly adding video "Themes" that will quickly add nice beginning/endings and title/object overlays). Not only that, it offers HD-DVD Authoring (to HD-DVD Burners, as well as DVD5/9 discs), capture direct to Blu-ray disc, and some other bonuses. But I digress...

If you really think it is at the same level in terms of abilities, then we will have to agree to disagree...

Regards,
George

[ozymango]

After finding out what the OP actually needed, I even sugested that DVDA4 and Encore DVD 2.0 might be OVERKILL, and recommended a different product from Corel/Ulead (which in some ways offers more features than DWS2.x -- save full menu setup/control and a couple of other things).

True, true, and I was remiss not to catch this. Mea culpa.

But I still love DVD Workshop! Despite the fact that otherwise I'm a hardcore Adobe fan through and through!

[GeorgeW]

After finding out what the OP actually needed, I even sugested that DVDA4 and Encore DVD 2.0 might be OVERKILL, and recommended a different product from Corel/Ulead (which in some ways offers more features than DWS2.x -- save full menu setup/control and a couple of other things).

True, true, and I was remiss not to catch this. Mea culpa.

But I still love DVD Workshop! Despite the fact that otherwise I'm a hardcore Adobe fan through and through!

Hi ozymango,

At least you realize other programs do have more functionality (and some are even at a lower cost). I can understand loving the DVD WS user-friendly interface -- at one time I think it was a leader in the SD DVD Authoring world (in terms of user-friendly interface and features/functionality). And to be fair, perhaps the DVD WS 2.0 EXPRESS version could be an exact fit for the OP.

One of my concerns for recommending DVDWS is not knowing Corel's plans for the future of DVD WS (will there be a WS3, maybe a Vista patch for WS2, etc... -- it has not been updated in a long time, and the current status for DVDWS is "ON HOLD" -- despite lordsmurf's comment that he "heard" DWS3 was in the works -- that was over 6 months ago and we still don't have anything -- so much for his "sources").

In the meantime, other authoring programs have been updated with some advanced features (I think DLP2.x offers the most functionality, but it has a higher learning curve)
-widescreen menus
-manual control over button routing
-chapter playlists
-buttons over video
-multiple angles
-better handling of the NEXT button on the remote control (when going through playlists)
-scripting
-and other "prosumer" features...

MovieFactory, on the other hand, seems to be on the path for upgrades and new releases. It looks like Corel is concentrating on the consumer software (VideoStudio, MovieFactory, etc...), and the big question mark is with the "prosumer" level applications such as MSP and DVDWS.

Well, maybe we'll get some news soon (I sure hope they do keep up the prosumer apps, as I cut my teeth on Ulead products, and also like the combination of user-friendly interface with powerful features)

Regards,
George

[ron spencer]

use DVDlab...kicks all of them..no encoder though