Converting 30 frames per second to 60?

[RobV]

Hi,

I could sure use some help.

I'm trying to use VirtualDub to convert a regular 30 frame per second AVI file to 60 frames per second.

Under the "Video" menu I use the "frame rate conversion" and pick "Convert to fps:" and enter 60.

Then I click "Save as AVI" and it saves out the file (which I thought is supposed to be 60 frames per second).

The resulting saved AVI file is very much larger, but when I view the new AVI file frame by frame, it doesn't appear to look any different than the original 30 fps AVI file (motion is still blurry).

What am I doing wrong?

Rob

[paulw]

Can I ask why.

[guns1inger]

Altering the framerate to 60 fps will not make the images sharper. This needed to be done when the footage was shot. The motion blur is now part of the image. Generally, changing to 60 fps does one of two things. It either simply plays the video twice as fast, or it duplicates every frame. Neither of these will make the video sharper.

[Cornucopia]

Using the "frame rate conversion" option will do the 2nd of the 2 things guns1inger just mentioned, and NO it won't clear anything up.

Don't know your source footage, who knows, maybe you're confusing motion blur with interlacing artifacts. Now THAT is something you MIGHT be able to do something about...

Scott

[RobV]

Can I ask why.

Hey guys...thanks for the replies. I really appreciate it.

I'm doing video analysis of my son throwing a baseball (breaking down his throwing mechanics and working on improving them and increasing his velocity).

I was under the impression (from various baseball forums), that I should be able to use VirtualDub to increase the frame rate so that I can see his arm and body motion a lot clearer by increasing the video footage to 60 frames per second.

This is the ultimate goal.

He is throwing much faster now, and the arm movements are too blurry to see clearly what is really going on when we analyze the throw frame by frame.

I just thought I was doing something wrong because what I'm seeing is exactly what you guys are describing.

If you have any suggestions on how I could accomplish this task (short of buying a new video camera) I would be REALLY appreciate it.

Thanks

Rob

P.S. The source footage was from my JVC GR-D270 video camera and was downloaded (via firewire) to my PC using Sony Vegas Movie Studio. It's in an uncompressed AVI format.

[Wile_E]

Try to adjust the shutter speed faster on your video camera or put the camera in "sports" mode. This should make each frame look clearer and is needed for fast action such as sports. Of course you will need more light with faster shutter.

[jagabo]

Try to adjust the shutter speed faster on your video camera or put the camera in "sports" mode.

Yes, this is the solution to the problem. And film outside under bright sunlight.

[RobV]

Camera is already is "sports" mode.

[edDV]

The camera is probably shooting 480i (interlace) where each field is sampled every 1/59.94 sec but when your viewer displays frames you see two of these fields at once. This gives a line tearing appearance during motion on a progressive "computer" display.

What you need is a viewer that displays single fields. I just tried Virtualdub and it defaults to frame display. There is a mode in there to display fields but I forget where it is (not obvious).

A VCR in stop frame mode will display one field at a time. Some DVD players display fields, others frames. Some camorders display fields in stop frame mode, others frames. Sony DV camcorders typically blend fields into frames using a Faroudja deinterlace patented process. This is how they make stills out of interlace video.

Maybe someone knows how to get Virtualdub to display single fields.

[jagabo]

VirtualDub is built around a one-frame-in-one-frame-out model. It can't BOB an interlaced video (ie, create two frames out of one interlaced frame). Well, you could use the Deinterlace -> Unfold Fields Side By Side filter followed by a Resize -> Bicubic to restore the height. But that will leave you with side by side frames.

The best thing to do is install AVISynth and use one of the BOB deinterlacers.

You could manually create an AVS script every time you need one but using an AVISynth template in VirtualDubMod will automate the process: Create a text file (use Notepad) in VirtualDubMod's Template folder and place the following two lines of text in it:

#ASYNTHER BOB BFF AVISource
[AVISource("%f").AssumeBFF().BOB()]

Rename the file with the extension .avst. Once you've done this can use the pulldown at the bottom of VirtualDubMod's File Open dialog to select the "BOB BFF AVISource" template any time you want it.

The above template will work for bottom field first DV AVI files. It doesn't really need the AssumeBFF() command because that is the default in AVISynth. For top field first AVI files (you won't find this with DV but you could have some other source) you would use:

#ASYNTHER BOB TFF AVISource
[AVISource("%f").AssumeTFF().BOB()]

Note that this will not fix motion blur problems. This is simply a deinterlacing fix.

[RobV]

Whoa....you guys are talking wayyy over my head.

So what you're saying (I think) is that there is no good way that VirtualDub can do this without some special script or something that I have to use.

I was told to make a script like this but I got confused and didn't seem to get it to work. I was probably not doing something right.

[edDV]

What is your camcorder model number? Have you tried stop frame advance?

[guns1inger]

Another alternative would be to use a player that has decent deinterlacing built-in. VLC has some pretty good deinterlacing options, but does not appear to have frame advance.

Media Player Classic seems to deinterlace pretty well, and has frame advance using the cursor keys.

Both are free.

[edDV]

There must be a software player that allows field by field advance.


Here is a good package but expensive.
https://id309.securedata.net/sports-motion.com/merchantmanager/product_info.php?produc...342cb7a9ef43d6
https://id309.securedata.net/sports-motion.com/merchantmanager/product_info.php?cPath=...342cb7a9ef43d6

[Ronniemc]

As you now know you can not convert fps after the video is created. However motion analysis software allows viewing a 30fps AVI file at double the normal frame rate by turning off progressive
scan. This is not true 60 full fps but rather looking at the two frames used to create the one frame for each of the 30fps. This is a feature of your playback software. The best motion analysis software I know of even when price is not considered can be found here. http://www.sportsmotion.com/.
Another possibility is using some of the new consumer products on the market. I'm currently writing a white paper on doing motion analysis at true 60fps. If you would like to read it let me know.

ps I do not work for the software company mentioned

Ron

[manono]

As you now know you can not convert fps after the video is created.

Sure you can, if the source is interlaced 29.97fps. jagabo explained how, by bobbing the fields through an AviSynth script. In addition to the crappy built in Bob filter, there are some very good motion adaptive "Smart Bobbers" available.

I'm currently writing a white paper on doing motion analysis at true 60fps.

You might do well to study some of the AviSynth solutions. It's already been done, and costs nothing:

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=102071
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=84770

And since some players (MPC, among others) can both play an AviSynth script as if it were actual video, and pause and advance a frame at a time, then there already are free software solutions to edDV's query.

[ManuelDelacroix]

Hi Guys,
sorry for my bad english, you know.....I'm italian....anyway....
How can i convert my mkv hd movies from 25-30 fps to 60fps?
thanks a lot to all forum...

[edDV]

Hi Guys,
sorry for my bad english, you know.....I'm italian....anyway....
How can i convert my mkv hd movies from 25-30 fps to 60fps?
thanks a lot to all forum...

MKV movies are mostly 24p progressive source.

Why do you want to do this? To what purpose?
Your answer affects tactics.

[jagabo]

By the way, since post #10 in this thread VirtualDub has added the ability to bob interlaced video to double the frame rate. Both the simple Bob Doubler filter and the more advanced Yadif, ELA, and Bob in the regular Deinterlace filter.

[Cornucopia]

In the pro video/cinema world there are cameras that can do 60p, even 120p (Red, for instance). and there are scientific cameras that can do 240, 480, and possibly more fps (usually at reduced resolution). But you are talking consumer cameras - that means 720p60 or 1080i60(bob deinterlaced) would be your best bet. But, since you mentioned you really don't want to buy a new camera, you're stuck with the camera settings and footage style that you've got.

To work with that, let's assume you DO have 60i (60 field, 30 frames per second) footage (that's the most likely).

You should follow the above advice, and bob deinterlace the footage to end up with 60p (60 full FRAMES per second) footage. Although you may have "interpolated" alternate lines, if you use a very good bobber that has smart motion estimation, those interpolations should be spot on. Save that to a new AVI with a lossless codec (HuffYUV, Lagarith, etc).
YES, it will be much bigger. Just accept this and account for it with larger available storage space.

THEN, you'll want to use a specialized motion analysis tool. There are a number of sports-, forensic-, or scientific-related ones; I don't know of any that are cheap or free, though. Maybe others will chime in here...

Good luck. It's one of those things that consumers would LIKE to be able to do like the pros, but can't really be done on a consumer's budget,

Scott

[SubJunk]

There's a guide on how to do this on any old computer for free using interpolation at http://www.spirton.com/convert-videos-to-60fps/

P.S. Excuse the necro but this thread is ranked highly in search engines so it is still relevant.