Not sure what/when "encoding" takes place?

[frappawotsit]

Ok, so this is a numpty question, but i really don't understand exactly what's going on during the process of transforming my camcorder footage to DVD?

After taking advice from the forum I use the following programs:

1) WinDV to get the footage from camcorder to pc in a .avi format

2) Adobe Premiere Elements 3 to edit/cut footage, add soundtracks et still in .avi format

3) DVD Architect 4 or Adobe Encore 2 to add DVD menu's / chapters

4) ImgBurn2 to physically burn the disc.

Questions:

1) Should I, and if so, at which of the above stages should I change the file from a .avi to a .mpeg?

2) I keep reading about "encoding" and "transcoding" what are they? and where above do they occur?

3) I keep reading about frameserving, but don't understand what it is and where that would fit in and what advantages (if any) it would give me in quality/time?

4) In stage 3 above, which of the two programs are commonly regarded as being better at their job? I know all have their own feel, but what about regarding quality?

5) Would somebody be so kind as to explain what happens in each stage of my production line, because i'm really not sure! Doh!

Thanks everyone for your help... i'm trying to understand.... it's a slow process

-Stu

[zoobie]

1) after youre finished editing
2) same thing...occurs when you modify anything in a file
3)frameserving saves you making huge temp files you'd have to store on your computer like a whole movie
4)dunno
5)dunno

What you should do stu is to click the glossary link on the left menu near the top and spend a few hours reading it. You'll be very glad you did.

[frappawotsit]

1) after youre finished editing
2) same thing...occurs when you modify anything in a file
3)frameserving saves you making huge temp files you'd have to store on your computer like a whole movie
4)dunno
5)dunno

What you should do stu is to click the glossary link on the left menu near the top and spend a few hours reading it. You'll be very glad you did.

Firstly, cheers for the hint regarding glossary, i'll take you up on that!!

So as i understand your reply... I finish stage 2, editing etc, then when I "render" i should do it to a .mpeg? (this is the process of encoding)

I'm not sure i follow the frameserve thing... i understand how useful it would be to not have a massive file saved on your pc, but where does it fit in?

Currently i have a file full of my imported clips. I have a file for the ongoing project in my editing phase. I have the finished edited product. Then i have the authoring file containing finished product, as i'm adding dvd menu's etc. Then finally i get a "ready to burn" image. Which of these processes/stages can i frameserve from and too, to prevent me having all these saved files?

I hope that makes sense? (or i've totally misunderstood what you meant)

[edDV]

...

Questions:

1) Should I, and if so, at which of the above stages should I change the file from a .avi to a .mpeg?

2) I keep reading about "encoding" and "transcoding" what are they? and where above do they occur?

3) I keep reading about frameserving, but don't understand what it is and where that would fit in and what advantages (if any) it would give me in quality/time?

4) In stage 3 above, which of the two programs are commonly regarded as being better at their job? I know all have their own feel, but what about regarding quality?

5) Would somebody be so kind as to explain what happens in each stage of my production line, because i'm really not sure! Doh!

1) After editing in Premiere Elements, export encode to MPeg2.

2) Encoding is a more general term. Strictly, it means computing an encoded (usually compressed) format from an uncompressed format. Transcoding usually means conversion of one compressed format to another compressed format without full decompression.

3) "Frameserving" means sending frames as a stream rather than as a file. At least that is how I think of it. It is typically done from an editor timeline to an encoder.

4) They are direct competitors. You look them over and take your choice. I use Architect with Premiere and Vegas. Just a personal choice.

5) WinDV transfers the contents on DV tape to identical data in a file. Premiere Elements imports the file. If the file is just cut edited, the same frames will be passed to export that were in the imported DV file. If you use Premiere effects or filters, the frames affected will be decompressed to RGB (or YCbCr), then modified, then re-encoded to the export format.

For a typical DVD process, the DV + RGB Premiere "timeline" is encoded to DVD standard MPeg2 as a file. Then the DVD authoring program imports the MPeg2 file and modifies it into a DVD Video-TS folder, and then to a DVD image (iso). Imageburn imports the iso file and burns it to DVDR.

[frappawotsit]

1) After editing in Premiere Elements, export encode to MPeg2.

2) Encoding is a more general term. Strictly, it means computing an encoded (usually compressed) format from an uncompressed format. Transcoding usually means conversion of one compressed format to another compressed format without full decompression.

3) "Frameserving" means sending frames as a stream rather than as a file. At least that is how I think of it. It is typically done from an editor timeline to an encoder.

4) They are direct competitors. You look them over and take your choice. I use Architect with Premiere and Vegas. Just a personal choice.

5) WinDV transfers the contents on DV tape to identical data in a file. Premiere Elements imports the file. If the file is just cut edited, the same frames will be passed to export that were in the imported DV file. If you use Premiere effects or filters, the frames affected will be decompressed to RGB (or YCbCr), then modified, then re-encoded to the export format.

For a typical DVD process, the DV + RGB Premiere "timeline" is encoded to DVD standard MPeg2 as a file. Then the DVD authoring program imports the MPeg2 file and modifies it into a DVD Video-TS folder, and then to a DVD image (iso). Imageburn imports the iso file and burns it to DVDR.

Thank you VERY much... that has made things much clearer for me.

The one remaining question i have is:

Given that frameserving is typically done from an editor timeline to an encoder, and given that i'm using my editing software to do the encoding (instead of an external encoder) I don't have the requirement to frameserve?

thanks again... the muddied water is now somewhat clearer....

[edDV]

...

Currently i have a file full of my imported clips. I have a file for the ongoing project in my editing phase. I have the finished edited product. Then i have the authoring file containing finished product, as i'm adding dvd menu's etc. Then finally i get a "ready to burn" image. Which of these processes/stages can i frameserve from and too, to prevent me having all these saved files?

I hope that makes sense? (or i've totally misunderstood what you meant)

Sorry I was writing and missed zoobie's response.

"Rendering" can mean two things in Premiere. An effect or filter must be "rendered" before it can be previewed in full resolution. "Rendering" can also mean export encoding.

Frameserving is only possible between editors and specific external MPeg encoders. Since you are using the internal Mainconcept MPeg encoder, you are getting the equivalent of a frameserve when you "Export timeline to MPeg2". I'm not sure if frameserving is supported for Elements to other encoders.

The alternative is to export to a DV-AVI file and import that into an external encoder.

[frappawotsit]

Frameserving is only possible between editors and specific external MPeg encoders. Since you are using the internal Mainconcept MPeg encoder, you are getting the equivalent of a frameserve when you "Export timeline to MPeg2". I'm not sure if frameserving is supported for Elements to other encoders.

The alternative is to export to a DV-AVI file and import that into an external encoder.

From a quality perspective, is it likely to be worth my hassle to use an external encoder? Is the "mainconcept MPeg encoder" you refer to a capable encoder, or am i reducing my quality by using this internal option?

[edDV]

Frameserving is only possible between editors and specific external MPeg encoders. Since you are using the internal Mainconcept MPeg encoder, you are getting the equivalent of a frameserve when you "Export timeline to MPeg2". I'm not sure if frameserving is supported for Elements to other encoders.

The alternative is to export to a DV-AVI file and import that into an external encoder.

From a quality perspective, is it likely to be worth my hassle to use an external encoder? Is the "mainconcept MPeg encoder" you refer to a capable encoder, or am i reducing my quality by using this internal option?

I can't speak to the "Elements" version but the Mainconcept versions in full Premiere or full Sony Vegas are in the top tier especially for making an interlace DVD. DV source should be encoded interlace (i.e. bottom field first) for best quality.

[frappawotsit]

Again, thank you.

I'll have a look and see if i can find anywhere that has a setting to ensure that the encoding process is using the interlace, bottom first option.

as ever.... great responses, great advice... must be a great forum

Thanks.

[edDV]

While you are in the encoder menu, consider a higher bitrate for DV source. Premiere usually defaults to 6000Kb/s average VBR. I recommend 8000Kb/s average or more for hand held camcorder material. 6000 is OK for TV captures.

[frappawotsit]

While you are in the encoder menu, consider a higher bitrate for DV source. Premiere usually defaults to 6000Kb/s average VBR. I recommend 8000Kb/s average or more for hand held camcorder material. 6000 is OK for TV captures.

Assuming i can find the settings for this (and the interlace thing) in Adobe Premier Elements 3 i'll do both.

I'm assuming that the bitrate thing, is about increasing the quality of video as it's converted from the captured .avi to the rendered .mpeg2? (is this also where i've read people referring to a number of passes? If so, (and if i have an option) should i set it to 2 passes, or just the 1?)

[edDV]

While you are in the encoder menu, consider a higher bitrate for DV source. Premiere usually defaults to 6000Kb/s average VBR. I recommend 8000Kb/s average or more for hand held camcorder material. 6000 is OK for TV captures.

Assuming i can find the settings for this (and the interlace thing) in Adobe Premier Elements 3 i'll do both.

I'm assuming that the bitrate thing, is about increasing the quality of video as it's converted from the captured .avi to the rendered .mpeg2? (is this also where i've read people referring to a number of passes? If so, (and if i have an option) should i set it to 2 passes, or just the 1?)

Yes.

As for number of passes (one or two) with Mainconcept: Two pass allows precision in setting file size. The first pass evaluates motion, the second pass encodes with precise file size. This is only necessary if your average bitrate times minutes puts you in danger of overfilling the disc. See the bitrate calculator.
https://www.videohelp.com/calc.

Otherwise, a single pass VBR will do. It may generate an average bitrate slightly higher or lower than the specified average. Another option is constant bitrate (CBR) which encodes at fixed bitrate.