I use either Avid Xpress 3.5 or Premiere Pro 2 to capture stills. (Premiere is handy as it de-interlaces the image at the same time)
There is one option im not sure of, to capture in the native DV Pal size or to capture in Square pixel.
768x576 square pixel
720x576 native
I know it’s the final use that is important here, my final use is just to store and view these images on my computer monitor, I want them to look natural, have the least amount of artefacts as possible and to basically look the best they can do.
I’ve tried both sizes, ive only captured a few images so far, and it depends what the image is as to how good it looks, so im a little confused on what to use from now on, ive got hundreds of images to capture, so I want to be using the correct size.
My thinking was to go with the native size as then there is no streaching of the image that you will get by converting to square pixel. Any thoughts or suggestions would be appreciated, thanks
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Since you're using VIDEO editing apps, and your sizes are Std Def-related, the final output is going to be non-square.
Pictures are either scanned from film/prints to digital files or originally recorded as digital files in a camera. Either way, these are both square-pixel formats.
So, no matter what, SOMETHING is going to have to convert these files from square to non-square pixel format. The choice to you is which app(s) should do it.
I don't think I'm going out on a limb here when I say that Photoshop's resizing capability beats AVID Xpress's and PremierePro's capabilities hands down. That, plus you can be selective in the amount (and placement) of vertical motion blur you may want to add for fine lines/serifs/edges to be rendered nicely on interlaced monitors.
Of course, if you aren't using Pshop, you'll have to figure out which has better capabilities.
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Now, curiously, you mention your final use being only for computer. WHY then are you importing them into a video app at all? You could just as easily do some kind of flash or other computer-based slideshow format that retains square pixels. If you prefer those particular video editing apps for the job, then make sure you're using a square-pixel template (not the std. NTSC or PAL). >>>EDIT: and then you won't have to resize ANY pictures at all (though you may have to resize video if it's being included in the compilation)<<<
BTW, the term "capture" as applied here could be confusing to some. I think what you mean is "import" (unless you're putting your prints on a desk and shooting it with a video camera).
Scott -
Thanks for reply scott, not sure I explained what im trying to do fully.
I have footage filmed on mini dv and VHS im capturing that with Premiere pro via firewire, im editing it and then keeping the edited file on the computer as a DV AVI file. As well as doing this I want to get screen grabs, stills from this footage, so I go to export a frame and it captures a BMP image I am keeping these on the computer to.
I’ve done some further reading and I thought if I captured native size, and then view them in a image package then it would be close to the original, but what ive read has lead me to believe that if I capture native DV Pal size then use a image viewer like photoshop it displays an image in square pixels so that means a PAL native image shrinks slightly.
So im leaning now to think I should export the still frame as a square pixel size, am I right? -
You're right.
You will need to convert the still frames from 720 x 576. Assuming your video is not widescreen, you need to convert to 768 x 576. If the video is widescreen, you need to convert to 1024 x 576.
For playing the video on the PC, you can get a media player that will correctly adjust the frame size for the aspect ratio. WMP 11 does this.John Miller -
Well, you're basically going in the other direction from what I was expecting earlier, but what I said still holds true...
DV (non-square) --> Picture/Computerviewing (square)
Something has to be resized, just which (is doing the resize) and when. As I said earlier, Most pro still editing apps (Photoshop, PSP, etc) really do a better job of resizing (and with more features) than the 2 editing apps you mentioned (and most other editing apps as well). This is particularly true WRT the choices of algorithms available. Only AVISynth and Virtualdub give you much variety and control here.
So, yes, I'd convert. But after the pix have been "exported" (not really "captured"), I'd (batch) convert in something like Pshop. Use the #'s JohnnyMalaria gave you.
Scott -
Few more things im not sure off…
If I want to make a screen grab off DVD using power DVD is it the same size as DV, so should I use the setting of 768x576 for this too?
Image type, these images like I said are just been archived, there are 4 options in premiere Bitmap, gif, targa and tiff. From what ive read so far on the net, seems like TIFF is best if you want best quality, I have been using BMP. If size is an issue use JPEG which I’m thinking of using for less important images. I would of course save as a TIFF first and then have to use Photoshop to convert to JPEG. From what ive read baseline is best to use rather than progressive for my use although not sure what the difference is for standard or optimised.
I am tempted to use JPEG for most of my stuff though as the image quality seems excellent, is this a good format for archiving if all you are doing is viewing the images occasionally on screen, I won’t be printing or using the images in video or anything, so im guessing that archiving in TIFF format might not be worth the much larger file size?
I don’t know much when it comes to Photoshop. Premiere pro has an option to de-interlace which seems to work quite well, is it best to do it in Photoshop and if so what options do you tick you can remove either the odd or even interlaced lines, and replace them by either duplication or interpolation?
These are my final questions, I have about a thousand or so images to do so I thought I might as well get what im doing right from the start.
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I thought I mentioned this, but I'll go over it again...
You DON'T want to rely on PowerDVD to do the resizing for you, and if you're taking it from a DVD, it's non-square, so you should LEAVE it non-square until you can fix it right with Photoshop. This means 720x480(NTSC) or 720x576(PAL).
ALWAYS archive the best quality possible. For pix and given the list available, I would say:
1. Tiff
2. BMP
3. Tga
4. Jpeg (way lower)
The top 3 are uncompressed (although Tiff has options for LZW and Zip compression (both good) and JPEG compression (don't do it).
Tiff has many colorspace, filesize, bitdepth options, etc.
Bmp is more restricted. Tga is is between (but is not well supported anymore).
Don't use JPEG for anything you REALLY value. Always use that for distribution, not archiving.
Don't let Premiere do the de-interlace, use Photoshop (or Virtualdub, AVIsynth, etc)
There is NO hard and fast rule about deinterlacing, as it's dependent upon the type of content in the image--fine lines? motion?
Try what works best for you--make a sample of each and compare and decide based on visual expectations.
Scott -
Once you get into this stuff you realise how much there is to learn.
I will stick with tiff then, I am going to edit the images as well by just drawing a box around the bit I want and then using the crop tool, as im using tiff am I right in thinking I will not lose any quality doing it that way?
The images are no longer 768 x 576 after cropping but I suppose that does not matter as they are still saved originally in squared pixels?
The video files that im saving on my computer are just Microsoft DV AVI, although some people on these forums don't seem to rate it, what else could I use?
I also want to save some other much larger video files on my computer for archiving and viewing only (no further editing will be done with these files)
A full DV codec is far too big for this task. So far I’ve played with windows moviemaker to make a WMV file, the high quality one and that looks pretty good, I would prefer to use premiere but the output options only seem to be for DV AVI. Is there a way I could use premiere and is WMV good to use and what bitrate setting is best?
Again thanks for all advice so far, im making a big push to edit all my stuff from a standing start, this forum is great, really helped me a lot. -
There was a Premiere 6.5 plugin which added WMV import/export (don't know if it works with the version you have).
Bitrate: Where DV=25Mbps, similar WMV=~4Mbps (still some differences, esp. B & P frames)
Encode what looks good to you and what you can verify your default player(s) will work OK with.
Scott
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