Slideshow limitations

[newbie_geek]

Hey all,

I need to make a DVD based slideshow that works in most DVD players.

I am building it with Sony DVD Architect. And i notice that when i add time to the display time of the individual image, i am actually creating video content of this one still image, for the duration that i define.

That is problematic for me as I need to try to get considerably more than 1 hour worth of slideshow onto one DVD.

Is there a trick i am missing, or is this a limitation of the DVD protocol that i cannot work around.

Thanks.

[guns1inger]

There are a couple of different types of slideshow you can make. The one you are creating is a timed series of stills encoded as a video. You can control how much time you can get on a disc by setting an appropriate bitrate, as you would for any DVD video.

You can also create slideshows where every slide is a menu screen, so the user can skip from slide to slide using next and previous buttons.

[newbie_geek]

One of the crucial issues is a transition. I need to be able to elegantly cross-fade between the images. What are my options there? Would the menu option work there?

As for the bit-rate issue, would that not adversely effect the image quality?

Thanks.

[guns1inger]

You can't have it both ways. Basic rule of digital video :

Running Time X Bitrate = Filesize.

Filesize is known and finite. You vary the others to fit. If you want top quality, use the maximum allowable bitrate, and live with an hour of footage on a DVD5. If you want longer running time (more footage), use a lower bitrate and accept that the quality may be lower.

If you are really concerned about quality, do use transitions. Simple transitions like cross fades and dissolves require the most bitrate, as every pixel in the image changes in every frame, and a lot of bitrate is required to encode them. If you must use them, keep the very short - 2 - 5 frames only.

You can have transitions between menu based slides, however it takes a lot more work to set up. Not worth it.

When I do slide shows, I do them in Vegas, with every movement and transition set up manually for maximum control. I then encode to a lossless format, then do a multi-pass VRB encode if I need to maximise bitrate. If it is short enough and I have the space, then I do a CBR encode at a high bitrate.

[borax]

It is possible to 'keep' the images as still pictures and only the transitions as 'video'. I have an example for such a DVD as a MuxMan script. No idea, if Sony DVD Architect can do something similar.

[noki]

once you include even one transition it becomes a VIDEO.

[borax]

Yes, sort of. But due to the DVD navigation structure, it is possible to extend the 'show' duration of a specific frame (still image), go on with the transition, show the next 'duration extended' frame...
I have an example (I didn't create it myself, but got it from a MuxMan specialist) with very high quality. It consists of 150 'real' frames (stills + transitions), has a total duration of 1 minute and 37 seconds and plays very smoothly. The total size (including a 1.5 MB ac3 audiostream and 20 subtitles) is 6 MB...

[newbie_geek]

borax - that sounds like EXACTLY what i will need to implement.

I need a little more guidance as to how to use these aforementioned "scripts". Could someone point me in the direction of some tutorials?

Also, will this script that you mention work within DVD Architect?

[borax]

No, only MuxMan. I just mentioned, that something like this is possible in the first place. I really don't know how other (commercial/expensive) DVD authoring programs deal with this matter. For MuxMan there is only very little documentation available. And tutorials cover just the very simple 'one video' DVDs. If you really want to use MuxMan for this purpose, you need to do everything on yourself: Encode the still images to 'one frame' mpg files, encode the transitions to 'some frame' mpg files. Then set up the script with all timing informations, filenames, navigation commands...
If you are experienced with script languages (and know how to use some helper applications like text-editors, Excel...), it can surely be done even for large projects.
I can send you the example, but as it is 'copyrighted', I don't post it here. Contact me with a PM if you are interested.

[mats.hogberg]

Still images get by with very low bitrate - if you do it properly, with a good VBR encode, your should get away with "considerably more than 1 hour worth of slideshow onto one DVD" - taken to extremes, only the transitions would need the bitrate - the stills virtually 0 (as nothing moves).

/Mats

[newbie_geek]

hmmm... borax, that sounds like the most labour intensive solution for me at this point. Good to know that a "brute force" solution does exist however.

mats - wont the much lower bit-rate make the cross-fade transition nasty looking? Or is there a clever way to make the actual transitions themselves high bitrate, with the stills being wicked low.

[borax]

way to make the actual transitions themselves high bitrate, with the stills being wicked low

That should be done by each good VBR encoder. As mats.hogberg has mentioned, ...the stills use virtually 0 bitrate (as nothing moves). Of cause that's only true for the B and P frames. The limiting factor is the GOP. As each GOP needs one 'fully encoded' I-frame, you will need at least some bitrate for the encoding of the I-frames (2 per second).

[newbie_geek]

that sounds much easier to manage than fiddling with scripts.

Thanks for all the feedback guys.

[newbie_geek]

I am chugging along with the project.

As suggested i am creating video of stills with crossfade transitions in VEGA. Vega's VBR encoder is exceptional! The video looks magnificent.

But then when DVD architect gets it's claws into it it murders the quality a little. So this leaves me with the following question:

Can i tell DVD Architect to keep it's recompressing mitts of my lovely video and just burn it as is?

Thanks.

[guns1inger]

You have to make sure that your DVD Architect settings match your Vegas project settings exactly, or it insists on re-encoding. Having used every version of DVD-A since it's release, I still choose to author with DVD Lab Pro. DVD-A just seems to be a clumsy, ugly tool to author with, and too twitchy when it comes to source produced by anything, including Vegas. More trouble than it is worth. I only get it because at various times the Vegas+DVD bundle is cheaper than getting Vegas and separate license for the AC3 encoder. If it wasn't, I wouldn't bother.

So check, and re-check, your project settings until DVD-A stops bitching and starts authoring.

[newbie_geek]

It SEEMS that DVD architect does not allow you to encode in VBR?

Is that correct?

[newbie_geek]

What is more, is that it seems that DVD architect wants to re-compress files that VEGAS made SPECIFICALLY to make DVD architect happy.

Stupid...

I think i need to try DVD lab

[guns1inger]

DVD Architect should use the same engine as Vegas, and the same settings. So yes, it does support VBR encoding. Without knowing all the details of your project it is hard to tell you what, specifically, is setting DVD-A off.

[newbie_geek]

Well, that is good to know that I CAN use VBR within DVD-A... i just cant seem to decifer where to access the settings!