elementry streams , remux to DVD how ?

[theewizard]

i' ve been doing a lot reading on this board in the various forums, but it left me too many choices and more confused

I finaly got around to trying CCE

I start with an avi , and end up with 3 files movie.mpv ( no audio ) movie.wav OR movie.mp2 and movie.vaf

if ia play the mpv with media player or vlc the sound is way behind the video

convertx doesn't take elementry streams, and neither does movie factory

how to I turn this into a DVD with OUT a lot of scripting

I want ONE program that will keep the quality of the video ( not re-encode ) , but will re-mux the streams into ONE file and give DVD ready to burn, OR a least give me meg2's to give to convertX

I dont want to go thru 4 different stages I just wanted to improve the quality of the final product thru better encoding

I've downloaded too many diferent tools and now i'm confused about which one does want and how it does it

[Baldrick]

Tmpgenc dvd author(easiest) or dvdauthorgui or guifordvdauthor or muxman (free tools).

[Alex_ander]

DVD authoring applications (like the recommended above) mainly use elementary streams as original material. They will demux streams back (in background or not) and this will only take you extra time.
The only reason for muxing before authoring a DVD is previewing video/audio synch status. You can do that without muxing in e.g. MediaPlayerClassic (it will accept audio stream of the same file name as the video stream file). If there is any audio delay problem you can use e.g. Womble MPEG Video Wizard for making and previewing changes.

[guns1inger]

Actually MPC will allow you to dub any audio in real-time. Just select the video and audio files with File -> Open. You can also adjust for delay in MPC so you know what to adjust for in Mpeg Video Wizard.

DLP will also allow you to adjust for delay when authoring.

[manono]

And don't let CCE handle the audio. And don't let your audio be bloated WAV audio. Use a dedicated audio app, like Aften maybe, to convert your audio to AC3. That'll free up a whole lot of bits to allow for much better video quality.

If you don't much care about menus, Muxman is the best, free or commercial, for authoring.

I finaly got around to trying CCE

I hesitate to think what that means. I suppose you just dropped your AVI into CCE and let it do the resizing and framerate conversion. Did you have it apply pulldown? Anyway, much better would be to open the AVI in FitCD so it could make a proper AviSynth script for you, which you would then open in CCE for encoding. Here's the FulciLives guide to using FitCD:

https://forum.videohelp.com/viewtopic.php?p=1487285#1487285

[theewizard]

it means, I decided to do the install and try out the program

it means i was smart enough to read the CCE guide posted on this site

it means i have been using a 2 minute sample.avi file that plays in perfect sync in MPC

and the resulting mpv and mpa are out of sync when played in MPC

yes i had it do pull down

I can rename the mpv as mpeg and convertX will load it, but i can't load the audio file either wav or mp2 ,

it means i'm trying to learn how add this tool to my software tools

and yes i will read and save Fulcilives guide on fitcd

the question was NOT the quality of the output

the question was what to DO/USE to put the sound and the video back together as a set of burnable DVD files OR a least get a MPEG2 muxed filed that i can give to convertX to makes vobs and burn

i made NO comment about video quality or sound quality

and i'll checkout muxman and GUIfordvdauthor

thanks to all who reply

[theewizard]

ok fitcd gives me a script Sample.avi.avs

I saved the script in the same folder with Sample.avi

if I drop both files into CCE it out puts exactly like before, it seems to ignore the avs file and follow the presets

if i just drop the script into CCE, it starts then seems to hang, its like nothing is going on, it shows the little window with timer and quantizer & frame info but nothing moves/changes

i opened task mgr, and no resources were being used, it said the app was running, but show no CPU cycles being used

something is wrong but i'm sure where

i tried to use guifordvdauthor to put the mpa and sample.mpv together for a movie and got lost, it wouldn't open the mpv file and would even see the mpa file

i understand CCE is not the best for audio

but one expect outputed files to be in sync , when starting with a good source, i finaly got the system button to stick ( keeps reverting to elemetry ) but the resulting mpg file was/is also out of sync

I wanted to USE CCE because of the video quality, but these audio sync issues , multi streams, re-muxing & authoring are turning into a real headache

i finaly got a partial handle on guifordvd and ran the sample files thru there got my small 2 minutes worth of vobs, nice picture ,sound about 2 sec out of sync, of course that is the fault of the audio output of CCE being off sync

what a royal pain

[vico1]

theewizard, can you post your script...
Maybe someone can give an idea, as to whats going on.

[theewizard]

here it is

# -= AviSynth v2.5.7.0 script by FitCD v1.2.8 =-
AVISource("C:\my documents\Sample.avi")
LanczosResize(608,448,0,70,720,436)
AddBorders(56,16,56,16)
AssumeFPS(23.976, true)
#Trim(0,2265).FadeOut(150)
ConvertToYUY2() # For VirtualDub or CCE

thanks

EDIT

closed everything re-started, opened cce, drag the script to the window hit encode

this time it ran correctly, rendered the streams ( still out of sync )

but the video is better fit on the MPC window and I think improved for the default cce settings or the settings i played with, now i have to learn how to sync the audio in GUIfordvdauthor

and maybe try creating a differernt audio stream since CCE won't give me an mpeg or elementry streams with synced sound

[manono]

Any script should be opened in VDub(Mod) before sending to your encoder. It'll give an error message if something's wrong with the script.

I take it the source is a 25fps AVI? Check it with GSpot if you're not sure.

If the source AVI is 25fps, the AssumeFPS(23.976) line slows it down. So, yes, the audio will go out of synch unless you then stretch the audio to fit.

My suggestion is to remove that AssumeFPS(23.976) line from the script. This will also necessitate unchecking the "For DVD" box at the top of the main CCE screen. Check the 25fps box in that main screen. And make sure you do NOT apply pulldown in CCE. This will then give you a 720x480 25fps MPV. Open the resulting MPV in DGPulldown, check the 25->29.97 box, and apply pulldown. Then you can author the 29.97fps M2V for NTSC and the audio should be in synch.

The other alternative is to keep that AssumeFPS(23.976) line in the script and slow the audio down to NTSC speed (23.976). BeSweet, among other apps, can do this.

Also, your AddBorders line in the script will add a bunch of black to the left and right sides of the script, as well as extra black above and below. This is because of the default 2 Blocks Overscan setting in FitCD. Unless you are aware of that, and purposely want to add extra black around your DVD, I'd suggest returning Blocks Overscan to 0 blocks. Again, open the script in VDub(Mod) to get an idea of what it'll look like.

Edit later: I was just thinking. Rather than reencode, if you're happy with the extra black (I wouldn't be), you can just take the wrong-speed MPV that CCE gave you and run it through DGPulldown, set for 25->29.97. That will reflag it to play at the correct speed. Again, this assumes the original source AVI is 25fps.

[Soopafresh]

"I hesitate to think what that means."

manono, thanks for the LOL.

[manono]

Hehe, but theewizard didn't take too kindly to it, and gave me my comeuppance in his reply. I had it coming. If you dish it out, you have to be able to take it as well.

[theewizard]

update

I ran the sample.avi and the full.avi thru thru covertX and both outputs came out out of sync, put the avis play fine in MPC

I delete all those files originals and outputs and will start over with a new but longer sample, and manono I'll watch that scripting and try your suggestion on my new sample

i like convertX its a one step process and decent results

I wanted to improve the results, but i don't want for every video to DVD to be a 4 or 5 step process , 2 step OK, 5 steps No-way

[theewizard]

If the source AVI is 25fps, the AssumeFPS(23.976) line slows it down. So, yes, the audio will go out of synch unless you then stretch the audio to fit.

My suggestion is to remove that AssumeFPS(23.976) line from the script. This will also necessitate unchecking the "For DVD" box at the top of the main CCE screen. Check the 25fps box in that main screen. And make sure you do NOT apply pulldown in CCE. This will then give you a 720x480 25fps MPV. Open the resulting MPV in DGPulldown, check the 25->29.97 box, and apply pulldown. Then you can author the 29.97fps M2V for NTSC and the audio should be in synch.

.

thank you, that advice was spot on , the sync problem got worst the longer it played

removing that line fixed the audio sync problem, everything after that was just tweaking the picture

I am now getting mpeg2 files OR mpv & audio files that i can author, and the picture quality is better, all i need now is more practice

[theewizard]

OK, i did the un-check for DVD on CCE main page, the mpegs play perfectly on the PC

authored (2) files to DVD ( stargate episodes ) their boxed 'expected that' I didn't 4:3 squish them , but they are vertically squished, circles are NOT round, people are TOO short, the ht ratio is off,

is the padding wrong ? or the aspect ratio not being maintained correctly, i'm trying to maintain the 16:9 not fill the screen, but is more like 18-20:9 or 16:7, its NOT correct

[theewizard]

G spot says they 16:9 in the original

OK, i did the un-check for DVD on CCE main page, the mpegs play perfectly on the PC

authored (2) files to DVD ( TV episodes ) their boxed 'expected that' I didn't 4:3 squish them , but they are vertically squished, circles are NOT round, people are TOO short, the ht ratio is off,

is the padding wrong ? or the aspect ratio not being maintained correctly, i'm trying to maintain the 16:9 not fill the screen, but its NOT correct

Video inspector says the files are 1.47:1 and 1.50:1 respectively

what happened

when i put these in convertX ans set it for 16:1

the DVD looks squished

[guns1inger]

When you created the script in FitCD did you choose anamorphic for you output ? this will resize for 16:9 encoding. You then need to tell CCE that you are encoding for 16:9

[theewizard]

I might have on one of them

the first one played squised on the TV with normal settings

I strecthed it with the player functions and zoomed in to finish watching

the 2nd episode same dvd, I had to reset the DVD player functions,and it played correctly and i had a very nice picture

I kow the first one had padding in the script,

i'm making progress

and the video playback is better quality than using convertX alone, of course I have some larger files that process thru convertX bueatifuly, but for files with higher compression , CCE does improve the final output

[theewizard]

i'm having problems with consistency of aspect ratio , some display correctly , and response correctly in the DVD player. others are still slightly squished and do not display correctly or response to the DVD player control to fit to screen

i'm having to taylor each script and settings, sometimes twice

i tried saving a template/ecl file and loading/reusing for another conversion, but that didn't work correctly either,

there is something i'm not doing correctly

with CEE

all the files in question play correctly as avi's it is only in the MPG stage after CCE encoding or as a DVD ( most often ) that they do not look right,

i think my problem is not being consistent with my cce settings
but i'm not positive

maybe its in my convetX settings for the final conversion

I tried GUIFORDVD, but it seems it only uses elementry streams and I prefer NOT to deal with creating and syncing a seperate sound file , UNLESS the orignal file is out of sync and needs to be corrected

[manono]

i'm having problems with consistency of aspect ratio , some display correctly , and response correctly in the DVD player.

When using FitCD, and you're converting an AVI to DVD, your source is always 1:1 Monitor (well, almost always). If you're converting DVD to DVD, then it's something else, but I think you're starting with AVIs. If you don't check the "Anamorphic" box under Destination, then you have to set CCE to encode for 4:3. If you do check the "Anamorphic" box in FitCD, then you set CCE to encode for 16:9.

I tried GUIFORDVD, but it seems it only uses elementry streams and I prefer NOT to deal with creating and syncing a seperate sound file , UNLESS the orignal file is out of sync and needs to be corrected

You should always handle the audio separately, in a dedicated program like Aften and one of its GUIs. So, first demux the audio to be handled by something else (and decompress to WAV if it's MP3 audio), and then disable the audio in the AVI by doing something like this:

AVISource("C:\Path\To\Movie.avi",False)#The False disables the audio.

And you then feed the elementary streams into your authoring app of choice. You may as well learn to do it right the first time.

Did I understand correctly that you first make an MPEG-2 using CCE, and then feed that into ConvertXToDVD? Do you have any idea how lame that is? If I got it wrong, just ignore me.

[theewizard]

Did I understand correctly that you first make an MPEG-2 using CCE, and then feed that into ConvertXToDVD? Do you have any idea how lame that is? If I got it wrong, just ignore me.

yes i did this, after all I have to author the DVD , I have to do something with the file from CCE

it's giving me a visibly better product, than using convertX alone ( which was my goal )

unless you have a way of getting convertX to use CCE as the encoding engine, or a way that doesn't involve 4-5 different steps

I have an older copy of tempgenc around here someplace ( at least 2yrs old ) , I never got around to re-installing after i got this PC back from the 'warranty' repairs that took way too many months ..luckily i had the use of a 'loaner' while this one was gone , I might try using that again for authoring. I haven't felt the need since I'm not editing anything, just converting from avi to DVD
watching them at the PC is easy ans convenient, but its a one person situation, watching them on the TV from the couch is better,

this way i have a 2 step process (not counting the scripting )that is giving me visiblibly better results

as for sound,i'm using the TVs speakers, not an HT surround system, and i'm not doing concert footage here

if i feel the need to improve sound, I'll master that task, after i am satisfied with my abilities on the video end

you may have noticed i don't offer opinions on de-muxing/muxing, sound enhancement, or what is the best editing, or menus

[manono]

I still don't understand. Explain again why you're sending perfectly good video, fresh out of CCE, to ConvertXToDVD to be degraded with reencoding?

yes i did this, after all I have to author the DVD , I have to do something with the file from CCE

Oh, you're saying you use ConvertX for authoring only? I don't use it, but thought it was an encoder and authoring app in one. Well, for authoring, the best is Muxman. It takes only elementary streams, though. And no menus, unless you buy the commercial version. If you want authoring with decent menus, then DVDAuthorGUI or GUI For DVDAuthor are good. But if you're using ConvertX only for authoring, then I apologize.

you may have noticed i don't offer opinions on de-muxing/muxing, sound enhancement, or what is the best editing, or menus

If you don't want to learn to do it right, that's your call.

[guns1inger]

You can't use ConvertXtoDVd to author compliant footage. It is an all-in-one encoder/authoring tool, and will re-encode. This removes the reason for using CCE.

[theewizard]

gunslinger, I won't argue the re-encode part..

all I know is the final product is better doing 2-step , than one-step

I just don't need to re-do the audio from TV shows encoded in the AVI, so i don't want to fool with demuxing and muxing at this stage
( if my memory is correct ) tempgenc DVD author will author without changing compliant streams, an so will Ulead MF and i might switch to using one or both of them

i like convertX for the speed , and the quality is decent, CCE is very good quality, and adding this step has improved the final product, maybe because convertX makes less changes on this file than the AVI conversion process

fancy menus are not needed for what i'm doing

if you have suggestion for something better than convertX , something that will handle an mpeg2 dvd compliant file, and offer better quality out put , NOT re-encode the compliant video i'm interested,

but at this point I don't want every avi to dvd to be 4-5 step process, too long.. and it becomes even more trouble some to put several episodes on one DVD
I appreciate all the help, I just want consistent good results, and master one thing at a time

[guns1inger]

You have video at it's best from CCE. ConvertXtoDVD will only lower that quality. So take your audio stream and video stream, put them GUIforDVDAuthor and make a DVD. If you think re-encoding the whole project with ConvertXtoDVD is the fast solution then you are sadly mistaken. It should only take 10 - 15 minutes to bring the CCE video and original audio and turn them into a DVD - without throwing away quality for no good reason.

ConvertXtoDVD is intended as a one-step process. Put avi file in, get DVD out. If you are willing to go to the length of using CCE, then ConvertXtoDVD no longer has a place in your process.

[theewizard]

ok , but that means i have to use elemental streams, i have use some program to extract/demux the audio, so I have (2) process steps, before the final author step, so i'm at 3 steps ,

use aften or something else to create an audio stream, ( how long is that process ? )

then put them together using guifordvdauthor

and what audio streams will it handle as iputs for authoring

[guns1inger]

AVIDemux to demux the audio - 2 minutes
Aften to convert the audio to AC3 - 4 minutes

Any DVD compliant stream - Mpeg1-layer2, AC3 or PCM. It might even handle DTS.

Author the results - 10 - 15 minutes

Still faster than ConvertxtoDVD.

I don't care which process you use. That is your call. If you think the extra time and loss of quality is worth the ease of using ConvertXtoDVD then so be it. But using CCE to convert implies you want something better. That always costs a little more - in time or effort - but is usually worth it. Would you go out and pay for a 67 Mustang, then pay for a mechanic to put a VW engine in it ? Because that is what you are doing here.

[theewizard]

are these tools for widowsXP or are they linux tools ?

I like your mustang analogy, i am old enough that that i graduated HS in 1966, i bought a 68 mustang brand new off the local ford dealers lot, I have a brother that still has his 69 mach-1 that he ordered from that very same dealer, my mom once refered to her house as the OK corral, because of the mustangs parked out front (2) 68's amd one 69

I drove that car for many years , until it caught fire outside of town one night, many a time that I wished i still had it

my ex-wife now has one almost identical too it.

I built my first computer from a kit, back in the early 80's

sorry off topic,

I'll give your method a try.. thanks

[guns1inger]

Both tools mentioned have versions for both environments. I use the Windows versions myself. AVIDemux in particular wears it's Linux origins proudly. Great program, but ugly as sin to look at.

You have a few years on me - I was born in 1966. However Bullitt is one of my favourite films, and it has both a Mustang and VW in it's great chase scene. However I don't like to talk too loudly about it in case some idiot in hollywood decides it's time for a remake.

[theewizard]

ON topic

the audio extraction and conversion to AC3 took only a couple of minutes

However the 'authoring process' took almost as long as using convertX, I do think there was an improvement in the video

I'm going to try again with a different avi file that is more action oriented where any differences wil be more visible

off topic,

I have a friend that lives nearby, that still has the 66 shelby 350GT that he bought directly from the shelby dealership when he was 18, the inside of the trunk deck is autographed by carrol shelby, and this friends, 2 dogs are named carrol & shelby, he has maintained a lifelong friendship with Carrol Shelby

he also owns 2 other mustangs