Thinking of switching from XP to Linux...should I?

[gll99]

From my Mepis desktop
I moved some video files created as a test in my Linux partition over to an NTFS windows one. I didn't reboot windows to check yet but they read ok from Linux. I'll try it later from the xp side to see if XP has a problem with the files.

Edit:
This may not prove much but the files load fine on the xp side. I'll have to find and try one of these filters that's let's you read ext2 and ext3 partitions from windows too.

Most of the time those types of fears are unfounded and problems are caused by something else. Like tekkieman says on a test system there's not much to lose.

[GMaq]

Hmmm, gll99 is right, this IS fun, I'm starting to wonder when the hammer is gonna fall! For myself I don't care much if the 2 OS boot drives can read from each other, They are only for applications and swap. I just want to add a common drive for data and to capture/encode to that both OS's can utilize. I'll read up on the NTFS-3g library. I was never in this game to replace XP, I just want to learn something new and take a walk on the wild side(:-b) There are a lot of cool little details I like already ie the localized weather forecast on the taskbar. It's seems very commonsense and homespun without being hokey, like someone took personal pride in creating it, this is not to denigrate XP 'cause I love it. It's like the difference between VirtualDub and Adobe Premiere both are excellent, effective applications and accomplish many of the same goals (I realize not an apples to apples comparison) but they couldn't appear to be more opposite.

[tekkieman]

I just want to add a common drive for data and to capture/encode to that both OS's can utilize. I'll read up on the NTFS-3g library.

The encoding thing could be an issue. If you deal with large files, obviously, FAT is out. So, I would say determine where you would be likely to encode from and format for that - linux/windows - ext3/ntfs. Then again, encoding from linux to an ntfs drive could be an interesting test.

I was never in this game to replace XP, I just want to learn something new and take a walk on the wild side

This is where it could really get fun. I wasn't out to replace XP when I really started to seriously use linux either, but I do find myself spending more time in it than windows now. However, since writing Windows software is where I make my money, I know I cannot just dump windows. That's part of the reason I built my new computer. With the dual core processor, plenty of ram, almost a terabyte of drive space, I've really been having fun playing with virtualization. I have several linux distros running under windows, and a few windows versions running under linux. I just keep one OS per screen on my dual monitor setup, and I never have to reboot to switch.

There are a lot of cool little details I like already ie the localized weather forecast on the taskbar. It's seems very commonsense and homespun without being hokey, like someone took personal pride in creating it, this is not to denigrate XP 'cause I love it.

If you like that, you might want to look into superkaramba. You can see it running the weather applet in this old screenshot:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v299/tekkieman/snapshot1.jpg

And if you like that, depending on your graphic card, you might want to play with beryl. I have fun showing it off, but then I turn it off to be able to be productive.

[GMaq]

Tekkieman,
That screenshot is crazy! I've got an old ATI All-In-Wonder 128 Pro 16 Meg in this box so I don't think Beryl is gonna happen. Reading up on the NTFS 3g thing, it looks like I'm headed for the cmd line console, that'll be an education in itself. But I'm willing to try it out with encoding and see if it's really out of Beta!! The Synaptic Package Manager is cool, like Home Depot for software. I could do all my encoding in XP, but where's the fun in that! I wanna check out all these cool Linux Video tools!!

ADDENDUM - Gawl Dang!!! That NTFS 3g is already installed! I upgraded it ('cause i could) So far everything but "Cinellera" on my software wishlist is in the repositories.

[gll99]

@GMaq
I'm in a similar situation as you. I have no gripes with pre xp windows and very few with XP although I don't appreciate wga or any other ongoing call home software for that matter.

Short term, which could be many years, Xp is my main OS. Long term who knows but it probably won't be Vista so now is a good a time as any to start learning something new.

This is a bit unexpected though.... I thought it would be harder to find and install software yet it's mostly point and click. I realise that it can be as complicated as you want to make it if you need to compile your own software or if you want to run command line tools with no gui but unless you have a very specific need that's not necessary. I'm pretty sure that in a short time it will be possible to write simple scripts and run command line apps. that's probably the next major step I want to take over the next few weeks and months as I get more comfortable with the new surroundings. Right now I'm like a kid in a candy shop finding this tool and that tool that will let me do the things I'm used to doing like timed video capture, dv camera transfers via I-link, dvd backups, dvd conversion, other video and audio editing and conversion etc... So far it looks very promising.

I like mepis and I'm getting a pretty good feel for it but I'm still open to trying other distributions.

I downloaded The Gentoo Linux 2006.1 x86 livecd disc and I'll probably give this a try also later on at least as a livecd. Looks like it may be a bit more complicated since it may require a bit more user interaction to set up but it deserves a look. But for now I want to try to find and test the tools I need that work with Mepis.

@tekkieman
The different links you provided in your posts were very helpful in identifying other tools to consider. I also took a look at the window like OS you linked but it has features that are time limited and looking at the listed apps they don't seem any better than what others are offering.

[tekkieman]

@GMaq

Sorry, I should have told you ntfs-3g was already installed.

Cinelerra will probably be about the highest learning curve out there. If you want to start a little easier, you might look into devede or mandvd. Not that I'm trying to stop you.

And when you want to customize a little, take a look at kde-look.org, and kde-apps.org. Those two could keep you busy for a while.

it looks like I'm headed for the cmd line console

What's the rush? Sure, there's a lot more you could do that way, but why not see how little you actually need it first? You can tell the people who have never tried linux, at least in the last decade, or just parrot what they've heard when they talk about not using linux because they don't like the command line. Again, don't let me stop you, but the truth is that you rarely ever need it.

[fritzi93]

You guys are way ahead of me, but I only just got my new build up and running today. :P Put two partitions on an 80 GB drive and installed XP Pro, not much else installed yet. Booted an hour ago from the Ubuntu disc, checked integrity of the install disc (nice feature), and am running a memory test right now. Think I'll let it run a couple more cycles and have a look at Ubuntu. I don't expect to be thrown off too much, since I'm passingly familiar with Knoppix and PCLinuxOS.

Yeah, this is fun.

[jagabo]

I've been playing around with Ubuntu, PCLinuxOS, FreeSpire, and Linux XP Desktop 2006. Most of those are beta testing a new release now so I tried both the older stable release and the betas. Most of the betas did not work with my sound card. They recognized it but the driver wouldn't work.

Linux XP had the crudest install. It also pissed me off because I couldn't use a 4 character root password (it's my business how (in)secure I want to make it, not theirs). None of them worked perfectly, either with the live boot, or with an install. Some of the Live CDs wouldn't boot on one computer with a 20" LCD monitor. Well, they would boot but the screen was out of sync so I couldn't tell what was going on. Some couldn't access the network shares right after installing (installing Samba fixed that), some couldn't access a second NTFS partitioned drive right after installing (digging around and changing some permissions fixed that). some didn't work with my sound card (as noted earlier). I don't think any of them autodeteced my monitor. Some started up at 640x480 or 800x600 with 60 Hz refresh. This was usually fixed by manually setting the monitor type.

FreeSpire was my favorite. It included MPG2, MPG4, AC3, AAC, etc codecs so all my media files played without having to track down codecs. Windows Networking was enabled without having to change settings. I couldn't access the second NTFS drive until I changed permissions.

None of the distros support the s-video out from my ATI X800 card. A feature I need (I use theater mode under Windows XP all the time). There doesn't seem to be a lot of information on how to get this working with Linux. It seems nVidia is prefered by Linux.

[tekkieman]

It seems nVidia is prefered by Linux.

Actually, the reverse. Linux is preferred by nVidia. It is the manufacturer who decides if they will support an OS. ATI does provide drivers, but the quality and feature set is questionable. nVidia supplies decent drivers. Intel now supplies open source drivers, so the 800 and 900 series chipset has features not usually available in an integrated video system.

My laptop has the ATI M200. Getting any ATI driver to work with it is a nightmare, so I'm pretty well stuck. So, when I built the new desktop, I made sure to use nVidia. Beryl, 3D desktop, life is good. The laptop still works with the mesa driver, but that 128M ram on the 200 is going to waste.

[lordsmurf]

Tekkieman, ATI is starting to make a lot of shitty hardware and software. The heyday of AIW Radeon cards is gone.

They don't even make good Windows drivers anymore (not that they were ever perfect, but at least they worked most of the time).

I'd venture a guess that ATI lacks skills in software coding.

They have lost so much of my support in the past 18 months that I'm pretty much indifferent to them now. I focus more towards Hauppauge, Canopus and Matrox for new cards. I can only suggest used or clearanced ATI cards this late date.

[tekkieman]

I focus more towards Hauppauge, Canopus and Matrox for new cards.

Since you mention them, my Hauppauge WinTV GO card also works in Mepis out of the box. It also worked in Fedora.

[GMaq]

What!
Lordsmurf naysaying ATI (), Armageddon is surely just around the corner!!!

BTW Plextor M402U USB-2 is supported "out of the box" by MythTV, not as common as the Hauppage units but some cool features for MPEG-4 Capture.

[tekkieman]

What!
Lordsmurf naysaying ATI (), Armageddon is surely just around the corner!!!

Really. Next thing you know, he'll be using linux!




:P

[gll99]

Ok here's one I'm not ready to handle alone.

I want to go outside the neat software box provided by the distro makers. Say I want to install something that is not in a package on the repository servers in the Synaptic list. For example xDVDShrink (written in Perl).

Option 1: I think that I could try to find a bundle on another site and if the server let's me I could add it to the repository list and then reload. btw) I tried to add a few more repositories but I got 404 not found and other errors.

Option 2
If I found a complete package I might be able to manually add it in Synaptic. Under the file menu there is an add downloaded package option and generate package download script which I don't know how to use. I tried to point to a couple of files I downloaded On my computer and nothing happened. I'm not sure what extension it's looking for.

Option 3:
I could use something else like K9copy but what if I want both

Option 4:
I could download the software and manually install it myself but that's where the real questions begin....

Option#4 is the killer because of the dependencies. I can't recall exactly but let's say it need about 12 other dependencies for this things to work and they need to be install first before you run this guy's install. So I try to find those ie.. maybe it needs DVD Author.. so I look for that but it too has dependencies that must be installed first and on and on. Am I making sense here?

Is this the problem with Linux that get's people bogged down and scares them off or am I just too inexperienced to see the simple answer?

[tekkieman]

Ok here's one I'm not ready to handle alone.

I want to go outside the neat software box provided by the distro makers. Say I want to install something that is not in a package on the repository servers in the Synaptic list. For example xDVDShrink (written in Perl).

There's always help available.

http://doc.gwos.org/index.php/Xdvdshrink

Option 1: I think that I could try to find a bundle on another site and if the server let's me I could add it to the repository list and then reload. btw) I tried to add a few more repositories but I got 404 not found and other errors.

You can do that, although there are usually a few more steps involved like installing the keys for the chosen repo. This is a security feature to ensure you are downloading from the official repo.

Option 2
If I found a complete package I might be able to manually add it in Synaptic. Under the file menu there is an add downloaded package option and generate package download script which I don't know how to use. I tried to point to a couple of files I downloaded On my computer and nothing happened. I'm not sure what extension it's looking for.

There's no need to add it to Synaptic. If it is a .deb file, just single click on it and kpackage will open. Select "install". If it is a rpm package, it needs to be converted to a .deb with alien. See the link posted above.

Option 3:
I could use something else like K9copy but what if I want both

Get Automatix. This will be the easiest way to get k9copy (as well as DVD::rip). You can still add xDVDShrink, but you're back to your other options.

Option 4:
I could download the software and manually install it myself but that's where the real questions begin....

Option#4 is the killer because of the dependencies. I can't recall exactly but let's say it need about 12 other dependencies for this things to work and they need to be install first before you run this guy's install. So I try to find those ie.. maybe it needs DVD Author.. so I look for that but it too has dependencies that must be installed first and on and on. Am I making sense here?

Any of the dependencies should be searched for first in Synaptic. If they have dependencies, Synaptic will take care of those for you (e.g. DVDAuthor is in Synaptic). Truthfully, by the time I get to something like this, some other application install has already solved any dependency issues.

Is this the problem with Linux that get's people bogged down and scares them off or am I just too inexperienced to see the simple answer?

More the former than the latter. It scares them off because not everything is "clickity-click". Most things are, but there are a few...

This is what is referred to in the Windows world as "dll hell". In th linux world, we call it "dependency hell". RPMs still suffer this to a greater extent than debs, but they exist in both.

xDVDShrink is a set of scripts (although there is a GUI for it. In many cases, there is a script that handles the install for you (provided the dependencies are met). It is usually a .sh file, and there are usually instructions in a readme or install text file that will tell you exactly what you need to do. In other cases, there is source code that requires compiling (not in this case), and those are usually just a ./configure, make, make install. Not really that difficult, other than needing "development libraries" installed on the system. Those too can usually be done through Synaptic.

[gll99]

@tekkieman
Many thanks for sticking with this long thread.
You've provided a lot of information to digest of things which I either have none or only a passing knowledge of, so I can't possibly apply your suggestions properly until I spend a lot of time researching and pondering each one. Your comments will need to be referenced many times in the future and for the sake of those who follow (not just me) it may in some cases require step by step real life examples. I'm wondering if it should be in this thread or whether another should be started not to get too far off the original posters question.

I'm like a rock that's not only trying to float but swim as well. Ok maybe I'm not that dense, maybe more like a volcanic rock with air pockets although I don't want to make an ash out of myself by asking obvious questions. (Sorry but the word was there, it was obvious, it cried out to be used, so I had to write it)

Depending on what the wife wants to do today, I'll look at each thing you answered and see if I can apply it using a real example.

One area that immediately jumped up at me is terminology, file extensions for scripts and packages etc... I accessed some and even ran some scripts and commands successfully in terminal sessions but didn't even know what I doing. Heck I loaded the wine package ran a terminal session ran wine winecfg and wine winefile and then notepad from the xp NTFS partition and it worked but in reality I guessed through a lot of steps. I'm not planning to use this tool much but I wanted a look.

Anyway installing from non standard packages is an area I definitely want to learn. How does the last part of the phrase go... teach a man to fish and ...........

[lordsmurf]

I'm amazed at how long this thread got, how much attention the topic drummed up. Most Linux threads tend to peter away after 1-2 pages.

[gll99]

I'm amazed at how long this thread got, how much attention the topic drummed up. Most Linux threads tend to peter away after 1-2 pages.

It's all your fault

[GMaq]

@Tekkieman (The Billy Graham of Linux)2 Converts and Counting!
I'm starting to see what you mean about software outside the repositories, I'm not having a great success rate with deb files that have just been downloaded, not to scare anyone off because with things like Automatix2 there are oodles of choices, and other than MythTV I've had no problems whatsoever staying within the repositories, I think I entered something wrong when prompted in the Console for MythTV so that's my fault. Yet another question though, several apps I've downloaded with Automatix2 have warned me with "Fatal Error" about running alongside an "Independent instance of apt-get" so don't run both together. I've installed these applications anyway but how do I avoid running them with apt-get, Is apt-get something that should be uninstalled? You better start putting this on a bill! Do you accept PayPal? (:-b)

[gll99]

Yet another question though, several apps I've downloaded with Automatix2 have warned me with "Fatal Error" about running alongside an "Independent instance of apt-get" so don't run both together.

If it's the same message I got in Automatix when I selected to install more than app under the same category at a time. If you only tick one and retry you won't get the message. You can then select another and so on. They all worked with no message when I did it like that.

[tekkieman]

See? Now your helping each other. It doesn't take much experience before you're not only using it, but helping each other. Yes, try not to install too many apps at once through Automatix, and make sure that you do not have Synaptic open at the same time. They are both GUI front ends to the apt-get installer, and they work as the root user, hence only one open at a time.

I believe for the sake of fluidity and sanity, new threads may be in order for some of the more specific problems. The blue one may be right that some threads should die out before getting too long.

For the general questions about loading software, I usually have what I need in the repository. Once in a while I need to go outside of it and get some scripts or a deb. I can't recall a time I've had to do more. Walk before you run, but if there is a specific thing you must have, go ahead and open a thread. If not me, someone will help you through.

Also, not to drag people away from our favorite forum, but I am but one person. I know there are a few other linux users here, but you may get faster and more numerous responses at either the distro's own forum, or linuxquestions. LQ also has some sub-forums for specific distros, and a couple thousand linux users in the forum at any given time. I try to get by there once a day, but there are far more qualified people to help out as well.

Again, this is not an attempt to poach any users, both the Mepis forum and LQ refer people here all the time when they have video specific questions.


Oh, one other video related app that doesn't have a high profile, but is still very popular is tovid. Just thought I'd mention it.

[edDV]

Linux is brain food. The more you play with Linux the more you also understand Windows and MacOS. Sort of like foreign travel.

[lordsmurf]

My installing Linux as a primary OS depends on this:
https://forum.videohelp.com/viewtopic.php?p=1671806#1671806

[tekkieman]

My installing Linux as a primary OS depends on this:
https://forum.videohelp.com/viewtopic.php?p=1671806#1671806

I so wanted to let this thread die, but I think this is specific to the original question. Isn't saying "I'll only run linux if it runs all these Windows apps" like saying "I'll only buy an xbox if it plays all my playstation games"?

If you have specific functions you need, see what linux applications are available. If one specific function isn't available, see if the Windows app will work under WINE/CrossOver/Cedaga. If not, and it is only one application, consider dual booting, virtualization, or living without it. If it is, say, that entire list, linux might not be a good fit for you.

Use the right tool for the job.

[Trident5]

No one has mentioned Xandros what is your opinion on that i know you have to pay for that one..It looks like and claims its a good starter for windows users...

[gll99]

No one has mentioned Xandros what is your opinion on that i know you have to pay for that one..It looks like and claims its a good starter for windows users...

No doubt there are many more one could try but why pay for something until you know what you want. There are many other window type distros, tekkieman linked to one earlier that allows 100 bootups before some stuff disables. Eventually you will probably want to contribute financially to the community of the distro you use or even buy some well developed commercial software but I wouldn't do it upfront.

If you have enough "tech" in you to do a bit of problem solving and a bit of guidance from another user like tekkieman almost any distribution will do. Although I'm using SimplyMepis right now I think PCLinuxOS which I tried because someone else mentioned it here first has a better initial look to me.

Those who have no technical bend in them probably had their windows pc set up for them anyways and call someone the minute they have a software or hardware glitch or want to install or make a change. To those I would say stay with windows until one of your close friends or relative introduces you to Linux.

[tekkieman]

I really try not to suggest specific distros, because it's really a matter of personal skill and taste. What seems too "newbie" for one, might just be perfect for someone you didn't suggest it to.

One suggestion I like to make (if you have the bandwidth) is to try the top 5 or 10 on distrowatch. There's a reason they're in the top 5 or 10, and that is primarily because they are the ones new users are downloading.

They all usually have their own forums and home pages, so it might be worth checking those out to see screenshots, or if new releases are having certain issues, or if the maintainers are involved in their own communities.

Most of them are LiveCDs, so download the ISOs, burn them (even to an RW to save some CDs), and try them out. Some have better looks, some better hardware detection, some just seem to fit. If you find one you like, play around with it from the LiveCD until you can't stand it, then install it to a second drive or partition. Then, play with it for another month. The others you want to try aren't going anywhere, and if they do, it isn't one you wanted anyway.

[FulciLives]

I downloaded the DVD ISO of SimplyMEPIS ... the ISO is like 3.99GB.

Will this function ala a "LiveCD" ?

I haven't tried it yet ...

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[gll99]

Must be a pretty loaded version. The live cd is just under 700mb. It probably means it has more stuff that people who install from the livecd usually get from the repositories ater the fact.

[hanugro]

OK, this may be obsolate but OS/2 is one of the stable OS when I use it 15 years ago. I am browsing the net when something happen (think it is one of older win 3.1 apps crash) it restart the UI but my net connection is still running. Very impresssed with it at the time. Have to abandon it because lack of newer and native apps.