The Challenge of Something For Nothing!

[dizzie]

EDIT - For a summary of the findings of this thread, see the 29th post of this thread. It is authored by me, Dizzie

Ok, I know that this question has been asked numerous times in this forum and others, but I thought it was time for a fresh re-ask. (never hurts to ask, right?)

So, put your brains together, you geniuses of video, and tell all of us shameless cheapskates who happen to use macs - is there any free method of either compressing dual layer DVDs to a size that will fit on a single layer, OR of splitting the file ripped from a dual layer DVD to fit on 2 single layer disks?

Now I, personally, will not go so far as to compile command line tools from source code, or use a solution whose video quality makes copies of DVDs (that I already own) that look like I am watching them on a 1950s black and white Zenith TV set (I know, half of you don't even know what that means - just look it up in Wikipedia). I do have some standards of laziness and quality, as you can tell.

That being said, no (free) solutions are off limits! Different strokes for different folks! Feel free to brainstorm and give the merits of your suggestion without insulting anyone else's ideas.

Let the games begin!!!

P.S. Sincere thanks to the contributors and administrators of this great forum - the premiere forum for working with video on computers!

[Frobozz]

You can divide the videos to fit two discs with MPEG Streamclip, which is free. But you need to have Apple's $20 QuickTime MPEG2 Component for that to work.

What's wrong with paying?

[dizzie]

Good point, Frobozz. And good suggestion! Nothing wrong with paying. On the other hand, nothing wrong with a free solution, either!!! Let's keep the conversation going! Anyone got something to add to Frobozz' contribution. Glad to see so many taking a look at the thread!

[dnix71]

pgcedit can create new ifo's and bups so you could manually split the vobs after the rip. You would use DVD imager http://lonestar.utsa.edu/llee/applescript/DVD_Imager_1.5.dmg to burn the rebuilt dvd folders.

The fastest way for free is use Handbrake to rip the disc to mp4, then use Burn-OSX http://burn-osx.sourceforge.net to take the mp4's and make a dvd from the ripped files.
The latest version of Burn will make udf compliant dvd discs, so you could use it after pgcedit also.

[dizzie]

Now THAT'S what I'm talkin' about! Awesome ideas, dnix!!! Those are worth their weight in gold!!! Thanks a million.

Let's keep the ideas coming - how about a way to compress a dual layer disc into a single layer disc with working menus for scene selection, etc.???

[live4ever]

The fastest way for free is use Handbrake to rip the disc to mp4, then use Burn-OSX http://burn-osx.sourceforge.net to take the mp4's and make a dvd from the ripped files.
The latest version of Burn will make udf compliant dvd discs, so you could use it after pgcedit also.

Why would you want compress to mp4 (losing lots of quality) then convert back to mpeg-2 for DVD losing even more quality. ffmpegX ($15 shareware) works great to compress the main movie to 4GB and is very fast (on Intel especially).

[dnix71]

ffmepgX is technically nagware. I paid the small fee asked for the program. This was supposed to be completely free. It's worth more than the $15.

You have to rip the disc first. The current version of MTR isn't free, either, version 2.6.6 is free but doesn't work with a lot of the new stuff unless you buy DVD2OneX to clean it up.

Handbrake makes mp4's, but you can set the bitrate very high it you want to.

MMT-EZ will build a disc image http://www.angelfire.com/mac/rnc/ , but you may have to use Burn-OSX, because the burn software that comes with MMT-EZ doesn't always work.

[pixel zombie]

dvdemaster can compress the main feature, delete the extras, and keep the menus......but don't be a cheap-ass, the world is not free...

[thoughton]

Minx transcoder is free (donationware), although very old.

http://www.hillmanminx.net/transcoder/

[dizzie]

It's great to hear from live4ever that ffmpegx's compress to 4GB feature works well - especially since I've had problems when testing its h.264 encoder in getting the audio to match the video. But let's not slam dnix good (and free) alternative. Nice to hear that you can set the bitrate high on Handbrake, dnix!

And thanks for the suggestion, pixelzombie. The world is DEFINATELY not free. Isn't it nice to have some things that are, though? Thoughton, I will definately check out minx. Oldies can still be goodies!

I know that this thread will be a big help to many Mac users now and in the future. Thanks to all. And if there are any further suggestions, just tack them on!!!

[lordsmurf]

When it comes to non-DV video, Mac users are largely left in the dark. I wish you well on your quest.

The easy answer is to use Bootcamp or VirtualPC and boot into Windows or Linux, and use tools made for those OS. That could work too.

[mhar4]

My advice is split the disk in two. The loss of quality from recompression isn't worth it.

[dizzie]

Lordsmurf makes an interesting proposal for those that have bootcamp and Windows, or are willing to install Linux as an alternative operating system and learn how to use it. Nice to hear your remarks mhar4. Do you have any specific suggestions of how to split the disk, or are your thoughts along the lines of dnix's first post above? Also - in regards to live4ever's suggestion of using ffmpegx to compress the DVD to 4GB - does anyone know whether this keeps the functionalities of the DVD menus or whether it just compresses the main feature?

[dizzie]

Update - after ripping my dual layer DVD with Handbrake, I tried dnix' above suggestion of using Burn to create a DVD from the MP4. Unfortunately, it created a VIDEO_TS file that was nearly as large in filesize as the 7.8GB original DVD.

I then tried to author a DVD from the MP4 file with ffmpegx, but am running into problems as you can read about in the below topic:
https://forum.videohelp.com/viewtopic.php?p=1673656#1673656

Does anyone know of an alternative method of taking my 2.65GB MP4, (which incidentally looks great!) and creating a VIDEO_TS file or DVD image I can burn that is less than 4.5 GB or so?

[dnix71]

I don't think you can avoid the limitations of time/mp2 to file size. You won't get more than about an hour 15 minutes on a single side. Explicit or DVision3 can split the file in two for two disc, but thats a lot of effort.

That's why mp4's are popular. If you get away from standalone dvd players, you can get a lot of high quality mp4 movies on hard disc to play using you computer's video out.

Explicit is freeware here:

http://www.sveinbjorn.org/explicit

DVision3 is here: http://www.objectifmac.com/

[tomlee59]

Actually, you can comfortably fit over 2 hours (almost 2.25) of "normal" quality mpeg2 video on a standard single-sided DVD. The exact duration depends on things like the bitrate of the audio track(s). One of the fastest, least intrusive "shrink" strategies is to transcode the audio into mp2 (if it's in ac3, for example). That alone can sometimes get your vid to fit on a single-sided disc.

[dizzie]

Those are some more great suggestions. Thanks, guys (or gals). It's neat to hear about the capabilities of the software you mention to split the file in two, dnix!

And, tomlee, I think that your suggestion is great. It's unique, too. I haven't run into it anywhere else in the many forums and comments I've viewed. Thanks for that - makes perfect sense to me. I doubt that there would be much sound quality loss at all from the normal ac3 sound format on most DVDs to MPEG-2. I'll try that in ffmpegx and see how much it shrinks the file!

[terryj]

ffmepgX is technically nagware.[snip]This was supposed to be completely free.

I don't understand this statement...Are you saying that Major at one point, said ffmpegx
was going to be Free, or are you saying that you were under the impression
that the program was supposed to be Free, but was surpised when
the "nag" asked you to pay for it?



I have to say I'm confused by this...I've been using ffmpegx since .h, and
it's always been upfront $15.
Sure, maybe not on the download page, (in Big bold letters)
but it's always been known? (versiontracker and macupdate)
Not flaming, just trying to understand the statement made.

[dnix71]

ffmpegX is shareware. I paid for it early, but if I remember correctly, you can use it for free, but it nags you to pay when you start it up. I probably should look into saving my license, just in case I have to do a clean install one day.

Upgrading to Tiger would probably mean getting a new license.

I just checked my email archive, my user name and key are still there. Thanks for making me think about that, Terry.

[terryj]

your welcome dnix.
And as per our "outside conversation" via PM,
major is not one of the developers
who will make your "non-reward" status.

ffmpegx is easily portable in versions;
when I started with .h, I was on JAG .2.4,
I then moved to Panther 3.5 and didn't upgrade for
several months. I'm running .w now on
a Macintel on Tiger .4.9 at work,
on my dual 1 running 4.8 at home, and an
iBook running Panther 3.9.

never had to buy another license EVER after I bought
the first one.

The only thing that you ever have to do with ffmpegx is
re-install updated mencoder or mplayer components,
otherwise it is fully backwards and frontwards OS compatible.

[dizzie]

Hi, again! At this point, I'm wondering if anyone can elaborate on a procedure for tomlee's suggestion of transcoding the audio from ac3 to MPEG2 using freeware or the ffmpegx trial version. Most of us would be starting with a VIDEO_TS file ripped from a dual layer DVD. I know how to encode just the audio from the VIDEO_TS file to MPEG2 using ffmpegx - simply uncheck "Encode Video" in the video tab. I'm just not sure exactly what to do with the resulting audio file when I'm done! I'm sure instead of encoding just audio that I could use ffmpegx to take the original VIDEO_TS folder to DVD using one of the preset outputs (ex. DVD - ffmpegx encoder) and then changing the audio to MPEG2 in the audio tab, but won't this re-compress the video, resulting in a loss in quality? It almost seems that, ideally, there would be a way to de-mux audio and video directly from a VIDEO_TS folder (which I can't seem to find a way to do) and then re-encode the audio, then mux the new audio file together with the original video. But, I'm open to any suggestions!!! Thanks, all.

[dnix71]

ffmpegX will take a vob directly, so once you've ripped the disc, you would just choose mp2 and stereo and a bitrate under audio when you want to get rid of ac3 audio to save space.

[pixel zombie]

When it comes to non-DV video, Mac users are largely left in the dark. I wish you well on your quest.

The easy answer is to use Bootcamp or VirtualPC and boot into Windows or Linux, and use tools made for those OS. That could work too.

are you referring to free applications? as there are some very good apps for compressing a dvd9 down to a dvd5 on OS X...

[From a Buick 8]

I know you are looking to save money, but time is money also. Why not just burn to a DL disc, they can be had for under $2.00. You do not lose any quality, keep all of your menu's and do not have to switch a disk half way through the movie.

[dizzie]

dnix - thanks again! As of right now, my VIDEO_TS folder has many VOBs, which seems problematic. But, I've read that Mac The Ripper can create a single VOB if you use the "Choose Title Only" extraction mode. I'll give that a shot and then drop the VOB in ffmpegx. When I do that, do I encode the video as well, or do I uncheck "encode video", or do I use "video passthrough", or none of the above and something else? Just wondering exactly how I get to the finished product.

Buick 8 - you make too much sense for me. I can't comprehend that. Just kidding - you're right - In this quest to get a free way to burn a SL disk off of a DL disk (which I still haven't been successful at), I probably should have just bought a good DL disk burner for $100 and be done with it!!! I've read that ones by LG are very nice and reliable. Thanks for that dose of common sense. But for now, I'll try to complete my mission, if for no reason than to help future cheapskates.

[dnix71]

If you register ffmepX do this from Major's help pages. This is the fast way to take an oversize vob and shrink it to fit a disc.

[tomlee59]

Hi, again! At this point, I'm wondering if anyone can elaborate on a procedure for tomlee's suggestion of transcoding the audio from ac3 to MPEG2 using freeware or ...

You've probably gotten your answer by now, but just in case not, here's what I've done. Use your favorite (free) ripper to create a single VOB of your title. Then demux (leave the video stream alone unless you have to do something to it). Take the audio and transcode it into mp2, using a sample rate of 48kHz, and the bitrate of your choice (e.g., 224kHz). Remux the new mp2 audio with your original video, and author as dvd. Burn the result and enjoy. The whole process runs very fast since the only transcoding you're doing is on the audio portion.

I've noticed a fair number of DVDs are just a little bit too large to fit on a single-layer disc. Simply transcoding a single desired audio track (discarding all of the other language options, 5.1 surround, etc.) into mp2 often suffices to shrink the file enough to fit on a single-layer disc.

[dizzie]

Dnix, stop tempting me with your common sense - I am liable to spend another $15 for your easy and clean solution! Just kidding - thanks.

And Tomlee - That's awesome - I think that your solution is going to be the winner. I like that there is no loss in video quality. My movie listening is all in simple stereo anyway. I'll give it a shot!

[dizzie]

Edited 9-4-07

Ladies and Gentlemen, we have a winner! Perhaps a few winners, actually. First, thanks to all who helped in the development of this thread with their various expertise. Here is a summary of my findings:

If you are a cheapskate who uses a Mac (like me), have only a single layer DVD burner, and are looking for a somewhat simple solution to take a Dual Layer DVD to a single layer one (and you don't mind losing the extra features of the DVD), here are some options I've found that work:

1) I've found an AWESOME solution for this (I believe from mhar4's suggestion). It's a little free tool called Tele2DVD, available at http://homepage.mac.com/andreaepicoco/software_en.html. Rip your DVD in MTR using a "title only extraction", creating a single VOB. Then, drag the VOB into Tele2DVD and hit "image". It will create a "re-quantized" image of the large VOB that will fill on a single-layer DVD!!! And it looks GOOD!!! Sometimes, Tele2DVD is a bit finicky. It may stop part-way through or just not finish all of it's steps, leaving you with, at the minimum, re-quantized audio and video files that you can mux, author, and image with ffmpegx. Sometimes, I've had success by inserting a "dummy" VOB of a few hundred kb along with the large VOB into Tele2DVD. Tele2DVD seems to work better if there are multiple tracks (up to 4). If you want, you could also do a normal extraction of the disk with MTR, and then insert any VOBs of additional features you wanted to keep in Tele2DVD, space permitting. It seems to do a max of about 6.5GB for re-quantization. Just don't force quit Tele2DVD if it hangs up - you'll lose all the files it has created thus far! Either do what you need to do to the files it created, or copy them elsewhere so that when you force quit Tele2DVD, you'll have the work it has done so far. Good luck!!!

2) Tomlee's suggestion above, re-encoding the audio to MP2. I did this with my Zoolander DVD. It started at 4.77 GB when I did a "Choose Title Only" extraction with MTR. After demuxing, re-encoding the audio, and remuxing, it took it down to a VIDEO_TS folder (that works with DVD Player) of 4.26 GB! Do note that when you re-encode the audio, you take the original VOB produced by MTR and choose "encode DVD audio to MP2" at the bottom of the preset dropdown on the main summary tab of ffmpegx. This method only works if your title extraction from MTR is DARN CLOSE to 5 GB or less

If neither of these are satisfactory, your simple, non-free options are to:
1) register ffmpegx ($15) and use the 4GB compression tool that dnix describes above
2) buy DVD2ONEX (affectionately referred to as Detox by mac users) - about $40? It has other useful tools as well.
3) buy DVDRemaster - $40-50 depending on version. The 4GB compression tool in ffmpegx above uses the same "engine" as in this more developed product.
4) Buy a freakin dual layer DVD burner, like I need to do!

That's my two cents, anyway. Let us know if this has been helpful to you my making a quick reply to the thread and letting us know your experience!!!

[tomlee59]

You can marginally speed things up by just re-encoding the audio you demuxed in the first step, rather than starting again from the VOB file. This avoids having to parse the VOB file yet again. Ffmpegx and other tools will happily take pure audio as an input, and produce pure audio as an output. So, if you're a cheapskate (like me) AND impatient (like me), you may want to make that small change to the flow.

And I should mention that you have some tiny flexibility in the amount of compression. If you're not terribly fussy about audio quality, you can go down to 128kb/s. I've even gone down to 96kb/s with results that were okay (not great, but ok). So, if your file is just the tiniest bit too big, you might be able to get there by throttling down the audio bitrate a little more.