Installing Windows Vista on multiple HDDs

[chewie8008]

Ok, I have heard that you have to go through some validation processes in order to install Windows Vista. Whether that be logging onto the internet or whatever. My question is, if I purchase Windows Vista but have two PCs, I have to buy one copy per PC, or is there a way to install the same copy on multiple PCs legally?

Also, one of my PCs(specs listed in profile) has two HDDs. I have one 80GB that has Windows XP on it only. The other HDD has the programs and mainly games. My question is, can I install Vista on the HDD that XP is on and have both OS on one HDD? I think I remember doing something like this in the past. If so, how much of a strain is it on the PC? Since I mainly run games on the PC(and it's borderline on some powerful games already) will it slow gaming and the PC in general? I suppose I would want to run the games under XP and just do basic things on Vista?

Also, if I do have the two OS, will I be able to access the same files under Vista that were originally installed under XP?

Any help would be great!

[akrako1]

First of all, I don't believe you can install two OS's on the same partition of the same physical hard drive. Both versions might have similar directory names (windows, program files, etc) that would overwrite each other and could conflict. I'd install Vista onto your second drive, and there won't be any conflicts. Installing 2 OS's on one machine will not have any effect on performance - in fact, since you can only choose one OS to boot into, the other is basically dormant, and doesn't effect anything in the running OS.

As for accessing files, you should be able to access all files from both versions of windows. Just to be safe, in the Vista install, if you're creating a new partition, make sure to choose NTFS (or possibly FAT32), instead of any others (i seem to remember some talk about a new filesystem type in Vista). Just make sure to keep it NTFS and XP won't have any issues reading the new partition. Remember though, you can only run programs that were installed under the OS you're running. If you installed a program under XP, running the .exe file under Vista will give an error - the registry settings and application data will be missing as far as Vista is concerned.

[chewie8008]

Do you have to create a new partition to install Vista? I think at one time I had 98 and XP installed on a machine. But I never used the PC like that, so I guess I would have ran into a lot of errors...

I might be better off just wiping clean and doing a single OS in Vista. Because all of my programs are installed under XP.

[akrako1]

I don't believe you NEED an empty, new partition to install Vista, but if you were going to use one, I'd suggest using NTFS. You should be able to install onto an existing partition (leaving the type alone). The problem would be if the existing partition already had an OS. If you choose to install to your second hard disk (not the 80GB one), you should be fine. I'm not sure how well Vista handles multiple OS's, but you should get the option to choose which OS to load (if you install both). Since all your games and most of your programs are installed, and work fine under XP, you probably don't want to mess up your XP install. I would just add Vista as a secondary OS ('cuz it might kinda suck before SP1 comes out - IMHO)

[Baldrick]

I have installed Vista on my second hdd and it works just fine to dual boot. Don't install on same partition as winxp, see http://lifehacker.com/software/top/windows-vista-beta--how-to-dualboot-windows-xp-and-...sta-179906.php .

[JohnnyMalaria]

You *can* install Vista on the same partition as your existing XP and still have both available.

EDIT - I typed this whilst Baldrick was replying. The above isn't meant to refute Baldrick's reply

e.g., http://www.experts-exchange.com/Operating_Systems/Q_22095788.html (scroll down to the first answer).

However, it is generally recommended to install it on a separate partition.

I have five OSes on my system - each on its own partition on the same physical hard drive. (XP MCE 2005, XP Pro SP2 - English, XP Pro SP2 - Dutch, XP Pro x64 and Vista Ultimate).

When you install Vista, it puts a new style of boot menu on the system. If you add another pre-Vista OS afterwards, you have to regenerate the new Vista one in order to access Vista. Microsoft provides clear instructions in the Knowledge Base (search for bcdedit).

I haven't had any problems doing this. I used Partition Magic to resize the partitions.

BUT - BE AWARE!!!! Partition Magic can f*ck you up royally if you try to resize a FAT32 partition. I did that on an external drive and it turned it into a RAW partition. I had to spend literally about 6 hours running a freeware tool to recover files from it.

[Xylob the Destroyer]

Ok, I have heard that you have to go through some validation processes in order to install Windows Vista. Whether that be logging onto the internet or whatever. My question is, if I purchase Windows Vista but have two PCs, I have to buy one copy per PC, or is there a way to install the same copy on multiple PCs legally?...

Absolutely.
You just need to purchase multiple licenses.
We do this at work. 50+ PC's, 1 copy of XP.

[chewie8008]

Where do I look to make a seperate partition or is the only way by using the OS install disc?

How much do seperate licenses cost?

[gastorgrab]

Ok, I have heard that you have to go through some validation processes in order to install Windows Vista. Whether that be logging onto the internet or whatever. My question is, if I purchase Windows Vista but have two PCs, I have to buy one copy per PC, or is there a way to install the same copy on multiple PCs legally?...

Absolutely.
You just need to purchase multiple licenses.
We do this at work. 50+ PC's, 1 copy of XP.

Are you sure that multiple licenses are required?

If the same OS is installed to different partitions of the same HD then only one is active at a time. Each copy of Windows would be registered to a particular hardware configuration. In this case, the exact same configuration.

Does a RAID mirror violate the Ms license?
.

[Cobra]

That's a good question. I don't see why you couldn't have two copies of you OS installed on one PC. It's almost like having a "hot" backup of your system in case one version dies out.

The safest thing to do is give Microsoft a shout and see what they say.

[jagabo]

http://www.microsoft.com/windows/products/windowsvista/buyorupgrade/familydiscount.mspx

[akrako1]

Where do I look to make a seperate partition or is the only way by using the OS install disc?

You can manually create partitions using fdisk and similar utilities. I've never found anything wrong with the partitioning utility that comes with all versions of windows. I wouldn't try and 'shrink' a partition though... That can cause problems if things aren't perfectly defragmented, etc. If you want to break up an existing partition, clear it off first, then repartition.

[gastorgrab]

http://download.microsoft.com/documents/useterms/Windows Vista_Ultimate_English_36d0fe99-75e4-4875-8153-889cf5105718.pdf

2. INSTALLATION AND USE RIGHTS. Before you use the software under a license, you must
assign that license to one device (physical hardware system). That device is the “licensed device.”
A hardware partition or blade is considered to be a separate device.

a. Licensed Device. You may install one copy of the software on the licensed device. You may
use the software on up to two processors on that device at one time. Except as provided in the
Storage and Network Use (Ultimate edition) sections below, you may not use the software on any
other device.

b. Number of Users. Except as provided in the Device Connections (all editions), Remote Access
Technologies (Home Basic and Home Premium editions) and Other Access Technologies
(Ultimate edition) sections below, only one user may use the software at a time.

c. Alternative Versions. The software may include more than one version, such as 32-bit and
64-bit. You may use only one version at one time

.

So if you buy a bigger HD with the intention of cloning your OS, you are in violation of the law until the original is destroyed?

And what i really cant understand is this line; "You may install one copy of the software on the licensed device."

How exactly does a person install two copies of the same OS, on two separate partitions, make use of both copies at the same time?

What does this say about making backup copies of our 'purchased' software?
.

[JohnnyMalaria]

What does this say about making backup copies of our 'purchased' software?
.

Nothing. A backup copy isn't an installation.

[gastorgrab]

What does this say about making backup copies of our 'purchased' software?
.

Nothing. A backup copy isn't an installation.

Then thats the answer.

Install a basic setup on the first partition and then 'Ghost' it to the second partition.

The 'Backup' will be the copy that you arent using at the moment.
.

[Scorpion King]

Then thats the answer.

Install a basic setup on the first partition and then 'Ghost' it to the second partition.

The 'Backup' will be the copy that you arent using at the moment.
.

If I understand it correctly that too is illegal.

A hardware partition or blade is considered to be a separate device.

[JohnnyMalaria]

My question is, if I purchase Windows Vista but have two PCs, I have to buy one copy per PC, or is there a way to install the same copy on multiple PCs legally?

The licensing for Vista Ultimate (and Enterprise) allows you to install Vista on a physical PC and, on the same PC, install the same licensed copy on a virtual machine.

So, yes, you can install the same copy on multiple PCs legally as long as one of them is a virtual PC on the same physical PC.

Virtual PC is free.

(The same licensing rules do not pertain to the "lesser" versions of Vista nor XP).

[chewie8008]

I have two completely different PC towers I wanted to install the same Vista to. Apparently it's not legal.

Although i'm not sure I know what is considered a 'Virtual PC'... You mean like networking?

I appreciate all the info guys!

[gastorgrab]

Then thats the answer.

Install a basic setup on the first partition and then 'Ghost' it to the second partition.

The 'Backup' will be the copy that you arent using at the moment.
.

If I understand it correctly that too is illegal.

A hardware partition or blade is considered to be a separate device.

Isn't a disk partition a 'Software' partition (within the same physical drive)? - [I can create and destroy a HD partition using only software.]

I take hardware partition only to mean 'a separate physical drive'.
.

[Scorpion King]

I think you're right....?
http://www.microsoft.com/whdc/system/platform/server/dhp.mspx

[gastorgrab]

After thinking a bit more on the subject i decided that installing to two different physical drives could generate a wrong SID.

The only way to make it work would be to install on first software partition, activate windows, and then clone to the second partition of the same drive (so Windows won't 'Activate' twice).

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/314828

Computers that run the Windows XP operating system use a security ID (SID) as a
unique identifier. If you use disk-duplication software, you must ensure the
uniqueness of these security IDs.

When Windows XP is installed, a machine SID is configured to contain a statistically
unique 96-bit number. The machine SID prefixes the SIDs of user accounts and group
accounts that are created on the computer. The machine SID is concatenated with the
relative ID (RID) of the account to create the account's unique identifier.
The following example displays the SIDs for four local user accounts. Note that only
the last four digits are incremented as new accounts are added.

HKEY_USERS on Local Machine
S-1-5-21-191058668-193157475-1542849698-500 Administrator
S-1-5-21-191058668-193157475-1542849698-1000 User 1
S-1-5-21-191058668-193157475-1542849698-1001 User 2
S-1-5-21-191058668-193157475-1542849698-1002 User 3

Cloning or duplicating an installation without taking the recommended steps can lead
to duplicate SIDs. In the case of removable media, a duplicate SID might give an
account access to files even though NTFS permissions for the account specifically deny
access to those files. Because the SID identifies both the computer or domain and the
user, unique SIDs are essential to maintain support for current and future programs.

.

[Nelson37]

The illegality issue is usually defined as, or accepted to be, two copies of the software in use at the same time.

Say you install Vista with all progs and drivers on a drive, and register it. Then the drive craps out. You get a new drive, do all the install, and register by phone with the explanation. As time goes on, you backup all your data files. Then at some future date, if needed, it is possible that the original drive could be made to work as a backup if the current drive suddenly fails. As long as you have not changed your motherboard, CPU, or even possibly your video card.

A norton ghost copy may also have the same effect, though I have not yet tested this with Vista.

I would challenge Microsoft and/or any court system anywhere to find any legal fault whatsoever with the above scenario. Whatever the legal verbiage happens to be, no jury of 12 men and women good and true would render a guilty verdict in such a case.

In fact, I would love to be brought to court on such a case in order to definitively establish the user's right to make a clone backup copy of their OS and data files, and even possibly to punish Microsoft in some way for making this obviously necessary action more difficult than it needs to be.

Just in case, if you are a Peachtree accounting user, other than 2007 pro, you will have to change your accounting system. It will not work on vista.

[akrako1]

Just in case, if you are a Peachtree accounting user, other than 2007 pro, you will have to change your accounting system. It will not work on vista.

Peachtree will work on Vista, but some features won't work (see Peachtree's site for a specific list). They claim their 2008 version (released 6/2007) will be fully Vista compatible. I'd suggest waiting. Personally, I'm gonna wait until Vista SP1 comes out before I even consider upgrading.... And hopefully hackers will figure out the Vista WGA by then too...

[Nelson37]

Peachtree 2006 complete WILL NOT RUN, period. NONE of the 2006 versions will. The ONLY version which currently works at all, with some features not functional, is 2007 PRO. That is only AFTER you download and install the patch. Peachtree rep confirmed this info after I personnally installed 06 complete, and it failed to run. It can be made to run in a virtual PC, as long as you do not wish to utilize a USB printer. Or any other USB device.

This information is from the Peachtree website, their customer service rep, (both the free support and the rep from the paid plan) and personal experience from a few days ago. No rebates, no upgrade option, and currently no plans to make the 2006 version, any of them, functional. The other two 2007 versions, or at least the Pro and Complete, are receiving some work. Next year's version may, or may not, be completely functional.

This is not my first indicator, just the first that I have personally encountered, that Vista is going to be a goat screw of monumental proportions.