Apple CEO Steve Jobs speaks out on DRM

[InXess]

No, I think what many here are saying is for Jobs to just put his money where his mouth is, and that's not going to happen. We all know it, so are crying, "BS!".
If you think the OpenPlatform/ClosedPlatform and DRM/NoDRM topics aren't related, you're fooling yourself.

Scott

I have yet to see anything that makes sense in the whole DRM/Jobs issue that links it to Mac OS. What the hell open platform has to do with DRM without stretching it beyond the limits?
What do you mean by "we all know it"? You know what ? ... that Apple is not gonna give everything they own to guys like you to play with, free of charge? Everyone, who is in his right mind, knows it. Don't you see how absurd this argument is?

[edDV]

No need to worry about Jobs protecting his own butt.

[Cornucopia]

...Everyone, who is in his right mind, knows it. Don't you see how absurd this argument is?...

Note: I didn't say anything about "free of charge" (or even OpenSource), I said "open platform". This means allowing the user to keep a measure of control in terms of time/place/method/peripherals/etc. Both ClosedPlatform and DRM are >>edit: flawed<<< strategies to avoid relinquishing control.

AFA "right mind": that's the problem. Lot's of people aren't fully aware of the influences and consquences of current corporate actions, and can be easily swayed by BS. Hence, not everyone is in their "right mind". You've just reinforced my arguement.

Scott

[DereX888]

We would have never guessed it!

yeah i guess i do go into defense and attack mode when the subject comes up. it's a character flaw i have. after re-reading this thread (with a cooler head) i see much of the point people are making. But I still say this: The iPod must not be that bad if 75+% of the "mp3" players purchased per year are iPods. well any way. AS Howard Stern Says "if you don't like it turn it off" any way off to play with my WII......

Man... perhaps in USA - and even there I seriously doubt it has 75% of the market.
Beside, even assuming it was true, since when quantity equals quality?!
Most of people in the world drive shitty boxes on 4 wheels, and you know as well as me that those Hyundais, Kias, Fiats, etc etc they don't even come close to any Rolls Royce, Maybach or other "so not popular" models Yet according to your logic Kia must be much better carmaker than Maserati since much more of them are being sold at any given moment?

Youre fighting lost cause here
You really need to go out to see what teens use - and I see it on a daily basis since I have a young teen and his buddies all the time annoyingly buzzing around; they actually laugh at ipods, and what is IN right now are "PMPs", those tiny videocameras with video playback that can play all - ebooks, music and movies too - the bigger the screen while smaller the device the better, and NO, none of them have any ipod... Look around, those who wear ipods are like 30 year olds actually ipods were in few years ago, when they just came out. A novelty - and back then it was really innovative and better design than the rest of the players back then on a market, but thats ancient history LOL
I do travel abroad a lot too, and I can assure you that if you will spot any ipod on any Asian person anywhere in Asia (very very hard task to do) it will be our own homegrown asian-american visiting there
We played the game of "spot an ipod" in Hong Kong and we counted all FOUR of'em entire day
Same goes for Europe, although you'll see more of them in UK for some reason (maybe more of our tourists there?) and as I said before: 9 out of 10 people spotted with ipod there will be american tourists most likely (the 10th one will be canadian, hehe :P )
ipods simply don't exist outside of North America

edit:
your location says "Japan", so out of anyone else here YOU should have know best how many ipods you can spot there :O
Ive been to Tokyo too and nobody had any ipod there either (except for my buddy - from Canada that is).
There were actually few excellent players with great bluetooth headphones I was interested in buying, but it was begining of the trip and I thought I get better and cheaper deal in HK unfortunately.
Does any of your oh-so-praised ipods come with videocamera taking flawless 640x480 videos or bluetooth headphones with 20Hz-20kHz sound?
I didnt think so while Im talking about last year devices LOL

enough about those stupid gaypods or i'll reek


edit2:
Guys like you - obviously a MAC-fanbois - should really once in a while take a break from reading and listening only to what Apple Co. feeds you, and have a peek into real world

[GMaq]

Hey ssj2_goha!

Why don't you stop arguing with these guys and playing with your WII and get the damned "iConverter" finished!!!!

[InXess]

Note: I didn't say anything about "free of charge" (or even OpenSource), I said "open platform". This means allowing the user to keep a measure of control in terms of time/place/method/peripherals/etc. Both ClosedPlatform and DRM are >>edit: flawed<<< strategies to avoid relinquishing control.

Boy, it makes no sense whatsoever. So along with his thoughts on DRM, Jobs should have announced going "open platform" (have it your way... ) with regard to his business... and all that just to make you believe he's sincere?

AFA "right mind": that's the problem. Lot's of people aren't fully aware of the influences and consquences of current corporate actions, and can be easily swayed by BS. Hence, not everyone is in their "right mind". You've just reinforced my arguement.
Scott

Sorry I must have turned away for a moment cause I've totally missed your, what you call it, "argument". So again, why would anyone have to "relinquish control" over his business to be able to address the DRM... You lost me here. Shouldn't he empty his pockets first?

[InXess]

Yahoo Music: Santa Claus will have DRM-free music in his sleigh
2/13/2007 10:36:06 AM, by Eric Bangeman

DRMed music has been the talk of the town for the last week, due in no small part to Steve Jobs' well-known missive on the topic. Another music store head has weighed in on the subject, predicting that his store will be mostly DRM-free by Christmas.

"The labels understand that DRM has to go," Yahoo Music general manager Dave Goldberg told USA Today. "It's nothing but a tax on digital consumers. There's good momentum behind DRM going away."

Goldberg's prediction comes in the wake of reports last week that EMI is strongly considering removing the DRM from its own music catalog. The Big Four label has been in negotiations with the iTunes Store's competitors to make much of its music available in an unprotected MP3 format. In return, EMI reportedly wants sizable up-front payments from the likes of Yahoo Music, Napster, and others to lessen the "risk" associated with selling unprotected music.

Yahoo and EMI have collaborated on DRM-free music in the past, but on a very small scale. Yahoo Music recently offered tracks from songstress Norah Jones and Christian rockers Relient K—both of whom are EMI acts—as MP3s. Goldberg, in particular, has long been a proponent of DRM-free music, telling the major record labels on several occasions that they would be better off without DRM.

We agree with Goldberg, but the negotiations EMI has been engaging in have yet to result in any deals, and the label is staying mum on the topic. Given EMI's history—like its 2005 announcement that it was about to sign a licensing deal with Apple to allow EMI to sell CDs with FairPlay DRM built-in—the lack of official comment may be a good thing.

http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20070213-8830.html

Hate to say... I told you so. Sceptics: looks like Jobs IS the force to be reckoned with...
Definitely a sign of better times coming. It took a lot less time then I expected to have some positive reactions.

[lordsmurf]

Looking at both sites right now: here is what i see.
Macbook 13.3"
512MB ram
60GB sata HardDrive
$1,099.00

HP dv2000t series PC
14.1" screen
512 MB Ram
60GB 5400RPM SATA Hard Drive
$1,027.99

Difference between the two?

No, not really. You're comparing two really shitty systems.

I don't know where those numbers came from either, that's nuts. Who would pay $1000 for a 13" or 14" screen these days? I used a 13" screen 10 years ago. Even 15" is pretty puny now, I opted for 17", which was only available in one model of Apple. I see those kinds of slow/naked computers at Office Depot and Office Max for $400-600 and no more.

512MB RAM?
60GB hard drive? 5400?

What the hell? Do I look like an e-mail grandma to you?

Look at a real system with some meat on its bones. Get at least 100-200GB hard drive 7200 rpm, look at a DVD burner, look at integrated ATI/nVidia graphics, look at 1GB minimum RAM. While a Windows-based system goes up in price, into the $1000 range, Apple demands $2000 or more, and they almost always have a puny 80GB drive and less RAM and something missing here or there (screen size, for one).

I really did want to buy a Macbook, but I'm not financial wasteful.

[ssj2_goha]

Looking at both sites right now: here is what i see.
Macbook 13.3"
512MB ram
60GB sata HardDrive
$1,099.00

HP dv2000t series PC
14.1" screen
512 MB Ram
60GB 5400RPM SATA Hard Drive
$1,027.99

Difference between the two?

No, not really. You're comparing two really shitty systems.

Not really "shitty", more than enough for the "general" user.

I don't know where those numbers came from either, that's nuts. Who would pay $1000 for a 13" or 14" screen these days? I used a 13" screen 10 years ago. Even 15" is pretty puny now, I opted for 17", which was only available in one model of Apple. I see those kinds of slow/naked computers at Office Depot and Office Max for $400-600 and no more.

All numbers came directly from the website.
and "slow"???? a 1.83 GHZ intel core 2 duo is slow? personally my OLD G3 700MHZ running os X 10.4 is fast enough for me to do anything i want to. The only downside is encoding time for videos. But i would think if your doing hardcore video you would want a desktop system not a laptop but hey thats me.

and to show you a "meaty" system comparison:

HP dv9000t series PC
2.0 GHZ intel core 2 duo
256MB NVIDIA(R) GeForce(R) Go 7600
1,907.99

Macbook Pro
2.33GHZ intel core 2 Duo
ATI Mobility Radeon X1600 with 256MB of GDDR3 SDRAM
2,699.00

system setup:
2GB Memory in both
100GB HD @7200 RPM
DVD+/-R/RW w/Double Layer Support


Personally i find the 17" laptops too big and bulky for my normal use thats why i have a 12 inch iBook but hey thats me.....anyways the price difference. 791.01 and all prices come from websites as b4. and as b4 same system not "twice the price" i will admit the macbook is ~42% more than the HP. But still as b4 you should check your facts b4 making wild statements like "half the resources for twice the price."

I'm actually setting up a website some time in the near future that addresses this "myth" about the mac series of computers.

Well anyways, I also use windows in conjunction with my mac so I see both worlds quite regularly.

[lordsmurf]

See, you basically just proved my point

HP dv9000t series PC
2.0 GHZ intel core 2 duo
256MB NVIDIA(R) GeForce(R) Go 7600
1,907.99

Macbook Pro
2.33GHZ intel core 2 Duo
ATI Mobility Radeon X1600 with 256MB of GDDR3 SDRAM
2,699.00

But the truth is that HP system will often go on sale in the $1000-1500 range, while that Mac is in the double range, being at least $1000 more, and depending on the HP price, maybe $1500 more for similar specs. But even then, the HP would have double resources (RAM, hard drive).

There is no myth to Mac pricing. It's higher. The end. The same goes for many other specialty or niche computers. Pricing is one area will they will always lose when compared to Wintel boxes.

[ssj2_goha]

See, you basically just proved my point

???? WHAT? The systems are identical(the mac actually has a faster CPU but whatever...)!

I said YES the mac is more but not "Twice" the amount for "half" the stuff.

But the truth is that HP system will often go on sale in the $1000-1500 range, while that Mac is in the double range, being at least $1000 more, and depending on the HP price, maybe $1500 more for similar specs. But even then, the HP would have double resources (RAM, hard drive).

So... how often are those sales??? Second question: what do you use your Laptop for? Third question how often do you buy a new windows computer? I know for a FACT most (~80%) of mac users don't upgrade that often, most mac last 4+ years. Where the average windows user upgrades their computers every 15 months.

let me do some math:

$1000 every 15 months for 4 years is $3200
where you spend ~$2000 for a mac that will last and still be upto date.

Still a savings of $1000 thats why mac users pay the prices, period. The computers last, i've dropped my iBook down a flight of concrete steps, twice, while it was still on, and it still works to this day. i would love to see what happens to an HP when you would do that.

Other Stuff

edit:
your location says "Japan", so out of anyone else here YOU should have know best how many ipods you can spot there :O
Ive been to Tokyo too and nobody had any iPod there either (except for my buddy - from Canada that is).

Actually there are allot of iPods. I don't live in Tokyo (most people see japan and only think of Tokyo but hey i understand why) I live in northern japan an when i'm out at the mall i see iPods all the time (on teenagers). I've been here for 2 years and i see them almost daily. Oh and I do live in the real world. Read computer mags and news blogs and they almost all say mac OSX is eons ahead of windows in both speed a reliability.

[lordsmurf]

I don't know where you're getting your numbers. Those are so bogus. My company, for example, has a "new every 4" type of upgrade plan. And in my opinion, some of the "old" systems we're starting to get rid are still functionally excellent systems.

My personal system was bought in 2001 and I've only upgraded a few parts (added RAM, HDD, new faster burner, CPU upgrade), but the base system is still as-is. I have a very poweful system. The only area where it's "slow" is video encoding, "only" a 2.8Ghz CPU, but whether it takes 2 hours or 12 hours, I won't be watching it anyhow. Overnight encodes or encodes while I'm at work do not bother me at all. A faster CPU wouldn't make a difference unless the encodes took 10 minutes instead of 10 hours. And you can only edit so much anyway, it's not like you'll have 50 videos to encode at once.

As far as Windows systems not lasting as long as a Mac, that's just hogwash. If anything, because you can actually upgrade a PC's hardware and CPU, I'd say a Mac lasts less time than normal.

You are such a Mac fanboy you're blind yourself to the truth.

Your basic math needs refinement too:
- Mac with smaller drive/RAM = $2700
- HP with more drive/RAM, usually larger monitor too = $1250 avg price (sales happen all the time, more than monthly, many stores to choose from)
Again, half as much for twice the price.

Just as blind as Steve Jobs thinking his hypocritical statements will be fully respected, given his attachment to closed hardware/software environments (much the same as DRM/devices/music).

[lumis]

ssj2_goha,

Why didn't you reply to JohnnyMalaria's last response? Seemed like you were doing a pretty good job up until then.. I was following your conversation with him with eagerness, and suddenly it drops.. Maybe you missed his last response, I'll quote it for you so you don't have to go back to the first page.

[pre-emptive????
you mean : Preemption (computing)

No, I mean "pre-emptive multitasking"

And I'm afraid you have a distorted view of the history of such on the Windows and Mac platforms.

Up to version 9.2.2, the Mac OS used CO-OPERATIVE MULTITASKING. Like the non-NT Windows prior to Windows 95.

Windows NT has always supported multiple processors. Not until OS X, did the Mac platform offer such. Some earlier Mac OSes had dual processor support. But way after NT.

MAC OS was a PURE GUI
Windows was a wrapper for DOS

So what????

And, on the pre-emptive multitasking front, Apple and Microsoft were beaten by the Sinclair QL - launched in January 1984. (Supposedly the computer that inspired Linus Torvalds to develop Linux).

Know your computer history before starting with me......

I refer the right-honorable gentleman to the answer I gave some moments ago.

[ssj2_goha]

I did reply i did it as a PM so this thread didn't get too far off topic.

Here was my response.

First of all Preemption is the correct term for what you call "pre-emtive mulititasking"

Second i Never said MAC OS had Preemption.

What i said was Windows has copied the mac OS.

Bringing up the Sinclair QL, yes i had heard of it and i knew it gave the creator of linux the idea for linux.

Oh and on a second note win NT was actually "stolen" from IBM because it was built on the O/S 2 setup. and yes i know they didn't really steal it but when the two companies parted ways they got WIN nt and IBM got O/S 2

The only original idea Micro$oft had was the original basic.

The purchased the source code for DOS, copied the GUI environment from MAC OS (witch APPLE copied from xerox, yes i admit that, but apple has always said they copied it from xerox not like micro$oft who said it was their original idea ). Win NT (and XP in turn) was copied from O/S 2

oh and on the subject of vista? most of the "new feature" are already in OS X 10.4

[InXess]

that whole Mac vs. PC doesn't belong here

[guns1inger]

I thought posts concerning religion were banned . . . . .

[ssj2_goha]

ok i will stop, With this last statement then i'm done with this thread for good.
ra= computer "a" stats
rb= computer "b" stats
pa= computer "a" price
pb= computer "b" price

ok if ra=2rb and pa=(pb)/2 (the statement "twice the resources for half the price")

that would roughly equate out to:

if ra=rb then pa=(pb)/4 right?


so with that math.
the two computer setup i showed the mac should cost 400% more than the HP.

when in reality at most it was 142% more. This proving that your statement was wrong.

it really is simple algebra.

ok I am now down with this topic. I will not make anymore posts in this thread.

[JohnnyMalaria]

I did reply i did it as a PM so this thread didn't get too far off topic.

Here was my response.

For completeness, my PM response:

First of all Preemption is the correct term for what you call "pre-emtive mulititasking"

Second i Never said MAC OS had Preemption.

What i said was Windows has copied the mac OS.

What I said was that Microsoft provided a pre-emptive multitasking OS a decade before Apple. Furthermore, it supported multiple processors.

"Pre-emptive multitasking" is a perfectly valid - and recognized - term. The term implies that the OS uses "pre-emption".

I really couldn't care less which company was first with a given feature. For me, the key point is that I use the platform that provides me with what I need. Windows offers that. OS X doesn't.

I've added emphasis to the last paragraph. Can we move on now?

[DereX888]

Howard Hughes donated most of his money to many labs, and created many others. Hughes Labs > aka Bell Labs > aka Xerox at last > was actually funded from his money. Thats why I think, as a kind of publicly-funded research (although by a 1 rich guy) the whole mouse + GUI research could have been 'stolen' by Apple, and Microsoft, and anyone else consecutively (how come no one blame Linus for using GUI and mouse?!)
Yeah, Apple was first to use it commercially, as we all know it. So what?
Do you drive Fords only too? (because Model T was the first commercially succesful car)
Microsoft have *never* created any own OS, as you said - DOS was bought from a dude who had no clue what to do with it, Windows NT and its newer versions (Win 2000/XP/2003) *is* IBM's OS/2 (although with Microsoft's own development), and if Im not wrong Vista is Win NT at its core again. And so what?
Microsoft and Apple constantly try to buy and *do* buy key coders from each other and others. Its business as any other.
SO, do we really care who wrote which part of any OS?
At least I don't.
OS X is nice. But it has its own problems, you know it.
PCs come in thousands of different configurations, so obviously any Windows itself cannot be "preset/preconfigured" as well as OS X on those few MACs out there, don't you get it? The key to 'stability' and 'perfect setup straight out of the box' on MACs is that there are only few models, and all made by the same company designing both hardware and software. If you really want to compare it, then compare Apple's MACs with Microsoft's XBOXes!
Anyways, IMHO Windozes are matured and very stable too *if set properly/appropiately to the machine they are installed on*
I repeat: MAC OSes are so great because they come on "hardware monoculture" controlled by OS manufacturers. Thats the only reason why MACs with OS X are almost perfectly preconfigured straight out of the box.
However lack of such 'perfect preconfiguration' not everyone see as deficiency of Windows OS. I don't. I like to set each PC computer exactly according to its hardware and the needs of the user, something impossible to do with MACs.
My main PC was basically build early in 2001 (same as lordsmurf's lol). It went from 1.4GHz to 3.2GHz (OC'd) now, from 128MB RDRAM to 2GB of RDRAM now (check out how advanced RDRAM was back then please - your MACs could only dream about it LOL). From plain SB Live! to DTS Turtle Beach sound card. From ATI A-I-W to HDTV card. From 1x DVD-RAM to multiwriters (didn't install bluer ray there, but I CAN if I want - can you?) And so on. And I bet all the upgrades cost me less than one of your precious MACs Nevertheless Its still perfectly working and I use it with all latest technological toys (DVDs, HDTV etc). Do you still use your 6 year old MAC? EVen if you do, I bet my PC beats the crap out of your MAC
I can set up 10-12 years old PC with latest Windows XP or Windows 2000 if not enough RAM (for "average" user, otherwise I'd use linux with any lightweight GUI) and have a very useful albeit not a speed-demon computer - perfect for browsing with latest browsers, emails, music, perhaps even burn and watch DVDs with few hardware upgrades. Can you do it with any 12 year old MAC? You can't, its either obsolete from hardware point, or so outdated by software.
Obviously with your MACs what you buy and get from Apple is all what you end up with, end of the line, you have to use it forever on such box, unless you buy another newer MAC that is, don't forget that. Yeah, i know - you can update your OS and add more RAM (LOL LOL LOL).
edit: In no way I am Microsoft's fan - I actually loathe Microsoft and Gates. The force is with linux

Anyways, to cut this useless stupid MAC-fanboy vs PC-crowd discussion:

OK!
MACs RULE, PCs SUX, we (the non-MAC crowd) are dumb.
enough? are you happy now, ssj2_goha?
So let's move on.

THE SUBJECT IS:
WHAT B.S. APPLE CEO S. JOBS SAID ABOUT DRM

[jagabo]

And what he said (between the lines) was: "Now that DRM has gotten us what we wanted, it locked people into iTunes/iPod and made us the dominant player, we no longer need DRM and believe we can make even more money by not using it."

[Cornucopia]

jagabo,

that is the best "reading between the lines" I've seen in a while!

Scott

[DereX888]

jagabo,

that is the best "reading between the lines" I've seen in a while!

Scott

Yup!
I second that

[ssj2_goha]

http://www.ilounge.com/index.php/news/comments/emi-apple-holding-joint-announcement-tomorrow/9736

The Wall Street Journal now reports: “In a major reversal of the music industry’s longstanding antipiracy strategy, EMI Group PLC is set to announce Monday that it plans to sell significant amounts of its catalog without anticopying software, according to people familiar with the matter. The London-based music company is to make its announcement in a press conference that will feature Apple Inc. Chief Executive Steve Jobs. EMI is to sell songs without the software—known as digital rights management, or DRM—through Apple’s iTunes Store and possibly through other online outlets, too.”

So yeah, he wasn't "just talking" he was serious.

[Justprocessbaby]

It's funny. Quickly looking over the past posts MAC/PC.. In the three generations in my family... It came down to ease of using itunes as the factor to the purchase of a mp3 player... My parents are not PC savy; also, they wish they can rip a DVD with one click and put it in their ipod... Their mostly CD to itunes converters.. DRM does not really affect them...

Don't get me wrong. I still convert to MP3 for my old CD player.


Anyway, Cool some things will be DRM free. But which ones?

Haven't look into a zune yet, but I like the screen. Will EMI's catalog be available "other online outlets....", too?

[ssj2_goha]

http://www.appleinsider.com/article.php?id=2623
EMI Music today announced that it is launching new premium downloads for retail on a global basis, making all of its digital repertoire available at a much higher sound quality than existing downloads and free of digital rights management (DRM) restrictions.



Steve Jobs a true power house...... Hate him and Apple all you want, people listen to him when he talks. After this no one can say he doesn't care about the consumer. He make sure apple offers the best they can, yeah it might cost more but hut it's worth it 1000%.

[guns1inger]

it's worth it 1000%

Which is about the markup you pay for the privilege of worshiping at it's alter.

[JohnnyMalaria]

Steve Jobs a true power house...... Hate him and Apple all you want, people listen to him when he talks. After this no one can say he doesn't care about the consumer. He make sure apple offers the best they can, yeah it might cost more but hut it's worth it 1000%.

B@ll@cks. Try telling that to iTune customers in the UK and Eire who have to fork over $1.50 per song (79p).

Doesn't seem that The Almighty Steve gives a toss about that.....

[DereX888]

It's funny. Quickly looking over the past posts MAC/PC.. In the three generations in my family... It came down to ease of using itunes as the factor to the purchase of a mp3 player... My parents are not PC savy; also, they wish they can rip a DVD with one click and put it in their ipod... Their mostly CD to itunes converters.. DRM does not really affect them...

Don't get me wrong. I still convert to MP3 for my old CD player.


Anyway, Cool some things will be DRM free. But which ones?

Haven't look into a zune yet, but I like the screen. Will EMI's catalog be available "other online outlets....", too?

Why would they buy ipod in the first place?
(and no, I dont promote zune either...
there are many great alternatives that aren't DRM-infected if you don't look at the "main" outlets and tv ads... my parents are "PC morons" and thats exactly why I never bought them any gaypod that would require any DRM-infected software like gaytunes on their computers...)

[JohnnyMalaria]

After this no one can say he doesn't care about the consumer.

He only cares about Apple's stock price. If he cared about the consumer, he'd offer the DRM-free EMI tunes at the same price.

Instead, he's graciously offering what amounts to nothing more than a surcharge (dare I say a tax) to permit copying. ($1.29 vs $0.99 in the US).

[ssj2_goha]

After this no one can say he doesn't care about the consumer.

He only cares about Apple's stock price. If he cared about the consumer, he'd offer the DRM-free EMI tunes at the same price.

Instead, he's graciously offering what amounts to nothing more than a surcharge (dare I say a tax) to permit copying. ($1.29 vs $0.99 in the US).

actually the non-drm files are a higher bitrate than the $.99 ones. so it's not just a surcharge.....

You know something..... i just realized something people are gonna bust on steve no matter what he does.... I don't care anymore....