Nero Recode is fabulous but slow for H.264/AVC. Any tips?

[PuzZLeR]

I have been very impressed with Nero Recode’s ability to encode to H.264/AVC. The quality is superb, even at 900 kbps! It’s the best in my opinion.

However, sometimes it encodes so slowly. I understand that H.264/AVC encoding takes time, (and I’ve seen slower) but I have a D-Core processor and I can’t understand why Recode sometimes encodes at 2-3 frames/second.

Sometimes it encodes at 6-7 frames/sec, especially at the beginning, but with a batch of files, it seems to slow down. Why is that?

Can anybody using it tell me some settings that have worked for them at both speed and quality? Or, how do I keep it going at the faster speeds for the entire batch (or how to take full advantage of D-Core and multithreading)?

I don't mind running the encoding overnight or while I'm at work, but any speed increase would be appreciated. Thanks in advance!

[Soopafresh]

Might be version specific

http://www.google.com/search?q=Nero+Recode+Slow&start=0&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firef...US:eek:fficial

[PuzZLeR]

I’ve been through the links, including a particular one with specific settings. The only thing that has increased speeds was sliding the quality bar over to speed, but that does really diminish the quality significantly unfortunately.

I understand encoding to H.264/AVC is CPU intensive, but if I can get the quality I want at 5-6 frames per sec, I’ll be satisfied (at least until hardware adapts). Encoding at 2-3 frames per sec with D-Core and multithreading is really much too slow.

What I’d like to know is how I can better take advantage of my processor and multithreading. I know DivX implemented it. Nero does say it has that feature, but I can’t find it anywhere. Is there something I have to do with Windows itself to fully optimize itself on just this task?

Also, what kind of sucks is when doing 2 pass encoding, in batch mode. Recode will do all the first passes first, then do all the second passes next. This kind of leaves you stuck in case you have to abort the operation.

Any way around this? It would be so much easier if Recode does the first pass, then the second pass with each file before moving on to the next file, so if I have to stop it I won’t leave a bunch of files half done.

Thanks again in advance if anyone can help.

[Soopafresh]

X264.exe is multithreaded, and the quality is great. You only need the most simple of Avisynth scripts to run it.

Mencoder, using the Winmenc frontend is VERY fast, but the h264 output is placed into an AVI container.

[GMaq]

@Soopafresh,
What good is H.264 in an AVI container? You can't even mux it into an mp4 container later, YAMB and mp4box will not accept it from an AVI container, I understand that you are getting the Visual quality of the x264 Codec, but H.264 outside the "Apple" world is non-compliant enough in an Mp4 container let alone an AVI one.

@Puzzler,
That's weird, I am also a big fan of Recode, but I don't see much of a difference in encoding speed between "Standard" and AVC, I have a 2.0ghz Core Duo and can usually encode at 30-35 frames per second, DECODING AVC is CPU intensive, encoding it shouldn't be much different than regular MPEG-4 Codecs, As an alternative I've had good results with freewares MeGUI or there is a 3GP Converter Hack that supports Hi Resolution H.264 for iPods that works pretty well too, it's being developed by a member called ssj2_goha, there is a forum thread in the Portable Video forum that'll tell you more, there is a little bit of code to clean up which is covered in the thread, after that it works really well, Other than that are you using the latest version of Recode? they've made several improvements in the latest Nero 7 version

[Soopafresh]

Yeah, I know about the h264 AVI issues, but if he plans on watching the stuff on his PC and nothing else, the transcoding is friggin peppy.

[PuzZLeR]

Thanks for your help my friends,

Soopafresh:
I would personally stay away from H.264/AVC in an AVI container. AVI is limited in its use, such as B frame range and its 4GB size limit would suck for HD encodes. I would want to eventually watch it on blu-ray/HD-DVD discs in the future. I'm a "standards" kind of guy but I appreciate the tip.

As far as x264/MeGUI is concerned, I heard lots of good things about it, but honestly haven’t given it a good try. I always found it too complicated, and searched for something a bit more of a “stupid-simple” variety. However, you’ve encouraged me to give it another shot with the multithreading. Thanks!

GMaq:
Actually it was because of some of your posts in several threads I’ve read which encouraged me to go ahead and try Nero. I too got nowhere with Super, and QT Pro was so ssssssssssssssssssssssssssllllllllllllllllllllllll lllllllllllllllllooooooooooowwwwwwwwwww and a waste of money. (Funny, since it’s an application from “Apple Nation” where H.264/AVC thrives.) I even liked the Jesterware app, and even bought it to eliminate that evaluation watermark. I also tried that hacked utility from that member, but can't seem to rig the .ini file to work for any other bitrate other than 800kbps. (Darn errors!) Is it encoding true H.264 video though?

Nevertheless, you folks got me doing some homework. I will look into these options further!

But SO FAR, Nero Recode gives me the most spectacular results, even at 900kbps. However GMaq, your Recode, which encodes that fast must be a different version. Are you sure it’s "Standard AVC" that it’s encoding, instead of just "Standard"? I know you pointed it out, but I'm still stunned that AVC encoding can go that fast with Nero. I'm actually very excited about 30fps-35fps, when I would have been content at 5fps-6fps! I have a D-Core with 3.0 GHz and can’t get it to encode faster than 3fps at the most highest quality settings. Even with the lower quality settings, I still only go as high as about 15fps-17fps.

I actually tried a version that was faster which I downloaded from Nero that was reasonably fast (v 2.2.6.17c ), but the one I bought, with the Ultra Edition, to my surprise was better in quality, but noticeably slower ( v 2.3.0.8 ).

Which version do you have? I personally would love to call up Nero and trade for yours, if you're getting those speeds. Are you however getting the stunning quality though?

BTW - Playback/decoding is not an issue for me once I have my video. It's encoding/converting it to H.264/AVC beforehand that takes a loooooooooooooooong time.

[GMaq]

Hi,
My version of Nero Recode is 2.4.5.0, and just to clarify I was using the iPod AVC profile to get that kind of speed, I'll have to try a "Standard AVC" encode to see if there is a difference, Actually the very latest version of SUPER does work for me now, but with limitations to 1-Pass encoding the quality just isn't there. However with MeGUI I could get encoding speeds of 28-30 fps doing x264 @ 640x480, 1000kbps, but it is fairly complicated. The quality of the 3GP Hack is quite good even at 800kbps, and yes it is the FFMPEG version of the H.264 Codec but it can be picky about it's sources, On the subject of quality the number 1 factor is bitrate, the amount of bitrate shouldn't slow the encoding process, Secondly, multiple passes allocate the bitrate more accurately to where they are needed most, so multiple passes of 800kbps could result in a superior file than 1-pass at 1000kbps etc.

[Soopafresh]

Pretty good info on suggested h264 settings for ffmpeg.exe

http://rob.opendot.cl/index.php/useful-stuff/

[PuzZLeR]

Update!

Thanks Gmaq, I have upgraded to Nero Recode 2.4.5.0 and it has made a world of difference. I’ve been experimenting the last week or so and wanted to make sure before I updated this thread.

I didn’t realize that I was using an outdated version of Nero 7. I thought Nero 7 was Nero 7 and that’s it, but no. Nero Ultra Edition 7.7.5.1 contains Nero Recode 2.4.5.0, which has some key features.

I now encode over 3 times faster! And the fabulous quality is either the same or better. Real cool!

I’m also experimenting with x264 and MeGUI and will let this forum know if I discover better speeds with it. Jesterware is also fast, but it only does one pass and has limited options. Then again, some people love it.

Anyhow, this community and forum is wonderful and I really appreciate the help and hopefully will help others myself in the future. You guys are great!

[PuzZLeR]

Ok, for the sake of others interested, I will post, in some detail, how I increased my speeds. Hopefully it helps someone else too. But you do need a D-Core to take advantage.

The latest Recode has a multithreading feature for the latest hardware. Set it to 2, priority on High and go. As well, make sure that in Windows Task Manager, in the Process tab, you right-click on Recode.exe you set Priority to High, and Affinity to both CPUs. I use almost 100% of my processing power, and while I sleep and go to work I come home to lots of finished video. I just hope I don’t burn my processor. Is that possible?

As well, there’s another key feature that has made an indirect difference in speed. I always used “High quality encoding (2-pass)” and what ticked me off in the older version was that Recode would finish the first pass of ALL video files first BEFORE beginning a second pass for any of them.

This sucked because if you needed to shut down at 75% done, you only really have about 50%, or less, of your work done. If you shut down at 50% of the entire process, you would have practically 0% done! Too many files will get left half done. As well, Recode probably had to create some much bigger workfile to reference for the second passes, probably slowing down speed and quality.

Now Recode runs both passes on each file, and completes it 100%, before starting on the next video file in sequence. Now, I can pack it on, and if I have to stop it, no problem, I have a lot done anyway in entirety.

Tip: When setting up a batch job, start with your biggest file. You will get more work done per GB if you have to stop, and for some reason Recode runs fastest on the first file.

This package was worth the money, even if you only want Recode. The rest of the bloatware is Ok I guess. Keep in mind the latest NeroVision 4 does not import VOBs to one file like the older versions. (They forgot or was it on purpose?) I installed a previous version in another folder to take care of that part though until they may have a patch for it.

Ok, hopefully this helps. Keep in mind, it’s Feb 2007 as of this writing, and things will improve for this new codec. This is only for NOW. If you’re reading this in 2008, it will suck.