.sup and .sub files for subtitles, where is the problem ?

[nerdgeek]

Cool manono! Will report back

[nerdgeek]

Just wait until you're done and fix it (make it transparent again) using DVDSubEdit. Section 2.2 of the guide here is what you want:

http://download.videohelp.com/DVDSubEdit/UserManual/helpfile.htm

And it's probably "b" that is opaque and you want to make transparent again. And don't forget after using the slider to make it transparent to first go Edit->Apply Last Modifications To All, before then going File->Save All Modifications.

Almost done.

Not quite heh heh .....

Hi manono,

DVDSubEdit does the trick, thanks, but (of course) other wrinkles have appeared. It turns out there are 2 streams of the original Japanese subtitles, LB & WS.

I might have used the wrong one & I've also not setup the DVD for both LB & WS & that I now have to do as well. That might mean two additional subtitle .srt streams for the WS versions of the English & English Commentary subtitles ..... heh heh heh!

In addition there seem to be some wierd timing problems with my Japanese subs, these can also be adjusted in DLP & I see DVDSubEdit does also - but I don't read Japanese so it's kind of like working with hieroglypics.

I only discovered all this since using DVDSubEdit on the original R2J DVD and seeing two sets of subpics ....

Well - this is kind of a teach-myself research project so I'm quite glad to have these problems & appreciate the help, thanks a lot, I'm sure learning a lot fast.

Nico M 8)

[manono]

The 2 streams, WS and LB, are supposed to wind up in the same track. Then one or the other gets chosen automatically depending on whether the display is 4:3 or 16:9. That is, they aren't supposed to each have their own track. This is easily done in Muxman (one reason I was trying to wean you away from DVDLab Pro), but there must be a way to accomplish the same thing in DLP.

If there's no way to accomplish what you want in DLP (there must be) or you can't figure out how to do it, then dump the LB and just use the WS stream of each sub.

[nerdgeek]

The 2 streams, WS and LB, are supposed to wind up in the same track. Then one or the other gets chosen automatically depending on whether the display is 4:3 or 16:9. That is, they aren't supposed to each have their own track. This is easily done in Muxman (one reason I was trying to wean you away from DVDLab Pro), but there must be a way to accomplish the same thing in DLP.

If there's no way to accomplish what you want in DLP (there must be) or you can't figure out how to do it, then dump the LB and just use the WS stream of each sub.

There were 2 .sup that I exported from that DVD which only had one subtitle (at least on the menu) & you're right - I only converted one of them to .son & used it & the resulting DVD when looked at by SubRip showed both LB & WS subs. I might need to extract & convert both into the DVD just to see which one is correct - maybe the second was different - the characters used looked the same but different than the reference DVD ...... just have to patiently find out.

Yes - DLB can do LB/WS selection but I have to remake my menu/control system & do some reading before that, like how does the player know which one to default to? I get confused between this & aspect ratio. As well as other things like 1:85:1 Anamorphic NTSC (but it was shot in 4.3) & much else besides.

I'll just plod on with this,
Nico M 8)

[manono]

The Subpictures_20.sup is the WS and the Subpictures_21.sup is the LB.

...like how does the player know which one to default to?

The DVD player will be set up to output for either 4:3 (LB) or 16:9 (WS). That's how it knows which to use.

As well as other things like 1:85:1 Anamorphic NTSC (but it was shot in 4.3) & much else besides.

If you have 2 sub streams in the same track (WS and LB), then by definition it's a 16:9 DVD. 4:3 DVDs have only one sub stream per track. 16:9 DVDs can also, however, use the same substream twice in the track.

[nerdgeek]

The Subpictures_20.sup is the WS and the Subpictures_21.sup is the LB.

...like how does the player know which one to default to?

The DVD player will be set up to output for either 4:3 (LB) or 16:9 (WS). That's how it knows which to use.

As well as other things like 1:85:1 Anamorphic NTSC (but it was shot in 4.3) & much else besides.

If you have 2 sub streams in the same track (WS and LB), then by definition it's a 16:9 DVD. 4:3 DVDs have only one sub stream per track. 16:9 DVDs can also, however, use the same substream twice in the track.

But I only extracted one of them & put it into my new DVD & then SubRip says both are already there .... LB & WS.

You already said they are both in one stream & here we have two streams ... dunno what the second one has but .20 definitley contains both LB & WS as per Subrip.

You do have a gift for concise explanation - thanks.

Nico M 8)

[manono]

You already said they are both in one stream & here we have two streams ...

You don't understand. I guess with DVDLab Pro, you can load it once and it's used for both LB and WS. It's the same when authoring with IFOEdit. Muxman, on the other hand, makes you load the same one twice (in the absence of a separate LB stream), and it's easier to understand what's going on. One stream is going in, it's being used for both the LB and the WS streams, so when you demux you'll get 2 streams. They'll be identical, though. When authoring for 16:9, it's required to have 2 sub streams for each sub track, even if they're identical.

[nerdgeek]

Hi manono,

OK - I got confused because when I demuxed originally I got 2 subtitle streams Subpictures_20.sup & Subpictures_21.sup - thanks for clarifying.

SubRip shows initially '02 - Japanese 2, 4.3 wide letterbox pan&scan'.

This time I turned off checkbox 'Drop Frame' but ticked 'Extended Format with Picture Coordinates'.

I'll carry on imporitng & DVD building - ciao for now.

Nico M 8)

[rock_king_my]

Hi.

My question is sort of related to this original post so I am continuing it.

I have a .SUP file when I demuxed a DVD with PGCDEMUX.

So how can I convert that .SUP file into .SUB or .SRT or .SON or .SST. These are the only ones DVD-LAB PRO 2 (DLP2) can take.

I don't mind using more than 1 software / proggie to get a DLP2 compliant subs.

I prefer to maintain special characters like musical notes, italic fonts etc. with the output from DLP2.

Also, does anyone know if ADOBE ENCORE 2 or SONY DVD ARCHITECT 4 can take .SUP files?

CHEERS!

[manono]

Hi-

One way would be to go back to the original DVD on your hard drive, load the IFO into SubRip, and convert directly into some text based subtitle format, such as SRT. In the OCR to text process, though, you'll most likely lose all the special characters.

Or you can convert that SUP file directly into IDX/SUB format, using the Tools section of SubtitleCreator. Or get the IDX/SUB files directly from the IFO and VOBs using VobSub Configure (included in the VobSub package). Then load the IDX into SubResynch (comes in the VobSub package), and convert directly to SON or SST format. Doing that will keep the subs as image files, about the only way I know to easily keep musical notes and italics.

SubtitleCreator says it can OCR a SUP file to SRT, but I haven't figured out how yet, and haven't much interest in doing that anyway.

However, if you're just reencoding a movie to be placed back into the DVD, I don't see why you need DVDLab Pro at all. Use Muxman for authoring. It takes the SUP files as input. Then replace the reencoded and reauthored movie back into the original DVD, keeping the menus and whatever else you might like, using VobBlanker. Or maybe I'm misundering what you're up to.

[rayden54]

I'm trying to convert a .sup to a .son file as well, but I've run into a snag.

First, I used PGCDEMUX to extract a .sup file from a vob. Then I opened it in Subtitle Creator just like you said [tools -> Manipulate SUP or VodSub], but the subtitles are showing up streaked (see image below). I thought it might just be a preview thing, so I went ahead and finished converting them to .son, but apparently it isn't. The .bmp images are the same way (see image below).



Moreover, when the subtitles are displayed (I made a test DVD to check the timing), the background (the blue part in the picture) isn't quite transparent.

I don't know if the problem is with Subtitle Creator, or PGCDEMUX, or how to find out.

If it can't be fixed, I'm not dead set on this method (although it does seem like the easiest way to import subtitles into DVDLab Pro). I'm willing to look at the Muxman/VobBlanker/PGCEdit option, but I want to be able to create my own menus, including a subtitle select menu (I can't use the originals, because I'm trying to do a full PAL to NTSC conversion). I can't tell from manono's post if this is possible either.

If it's not, as a last resort, I'm willing to use one of those text-based subtitle things (as long as I can do the typing myself--I just don't trust OCRs). I'm just wondering if there's a way to use the timing thing from the .idx file?

[manono]

Hi-

I don't know if the problem is with Subtitle Creator, or PGCDEMUX, or how to find out.

Neither do I, as I haven't seen the problem before. It's not PGCDemux, though, as it gives them to you straight out of the DVD. If you want SON subs, try this:

Open the IFO in SubRip. Tick "Save SubPictures as BMP". Hit the little blue thing just below (looks like a blue jigsaw puzzle piece), and choose to save in Graphical Format/Spruce DVD Maestro(*.son). Then when you go to start it'll ask you where to save the BMPs, and in what form you want them. Just make sure you say 720x574/478 for dialog subs and 720x576/480 for menu subpics, and 4-bit color. After you get all the BMPs, save a SON file. If that doesn't work to give you "normal" looking BMPs, let me know and I'll explain another way to do it.

Moreover, when the subtitles are displayed (I made a test DVD to check the timing), the background (the blue part in the picture) isn't quite transparent.

That's minor and can be easily fixed using DVDSubEdit. Let's concentrate on getting nice looking BMPs first.

I can't tell from manono's post if this is possible either.

It's possible. I just finished another PAL2NTSC conversion yesterday, in preparation for writing a How To guide.

[rayden54]

Err. I keep hitting post reply instead of quick reply...

I used SubRip, and now I've got pretty bmps.