subtitlecreator, muxman and aspect ratios. subs displayed at wrong position

[sunmanking]

subtitlecreator, muxman and aspect ratios. Big problem: subs displayed at wrong position

Hello all,

I have a serious problem concerning subtitle positioning, subtitle creator and muxman.

I want to hide hardcoded subtitles in a video file which is 16:9 PS (as muxman reports when loading the videofile, that is 16:9 pan&scan) by covering them.

In the past I could do it, no problem about it. A video file might would 4:3 or 16:9, and I could easily hide them.

Now the video file is 16:9 PS as muxman shows.

I create the subs in subtitlecreator. I make a capture (snapshot) with the nero dvd player. capture size is 720*576 so that I get a real capture based on standard pal dvd format. I load the background image as 1:1 anamorphic (is there a real diffence with 1:1 letterbox?), hide the hardcoded subs by covering them, create .sup, do the muxing (muxman video "both" subtitle "no ps, no lb, no ws") and watch it on the PC dvd player. no problem, it works great. i switch 4:3 and 16:9 modes in the computer dvd palyer and I can check how hardcoded subtitles are properly "hidden". However, I burn the dvd, play it in the standalone dvd player with a 4:3 TV at the living room and... problem!!! Somehow subtitles are not at the same position as when displayed at the computer! They appear a little bit below thane expected, so there's about 1 hardcoded subtile line showing. It looks very ugly. Same happens when i play it in a 16:9 LCD TV. So why is this happening? It never happened before! Does it have to do with aspect ratios being different in a computer and a 4:3 or 16:9 TV? Might that be a bug in subtitlecreator or muxman? Might I be bugged???...

This is how it looks in the computer dvd player 16:9, hardcoded subs are propery hidden (H stand for hardcoded subtitles; S stands for overlayed subtitles):

******************************
*                            *
*                            *
*                            *
*                            *
*    SSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS    *
*    SSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS    *
*                            *
******************************

This is how it looks in the computer dvd player 4:3, hardcoded subs are propery hidden:

********************
*                  *
*                  *
*                  *
*                  *
*    SSSSSSSSSS    *
*    SSSSSSSSSS    *
*                  *
********************

And now... surprise! This is how it looks in the 16:9 LCD TV, hardcoded subs are shown! subtitles are shown a little bit below!:

******************************
*                            *
*                            *
*                            *
*                            *
*    HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH    *
*    SSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS    *
*    SSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS    *
******************************

I have been thinking about all the different combinations to try till I reach the right choice, fingers' crossed:

In subtitlecreator a background picture format can be 1:1, 4:3, 16:9
Each background picture format can be anamorphic, letterbox
This makes 6 combinations in subtitlecreator

Now, when muxing in muxman we have:
Each of the 6 previous combinations in subtitle creator produce a .sup file.
Each .sup file can have the following combinations in muxman:
Each of those 6 .sup can have the video file as PS, LB, both
Each video file as PS, LB, both can have the subtitles as PS, LB, WD, PS LB, PS WD, LB WD

So overall there are 108 different combinations to try! that is just too crazy...

Can anyone please help find the right combination?... I think it all has to do with choosing the righg buttons in subtitle creator and muxman but... which ones?... I hate pan&scan...

PGCEDIT has a menu for streams (Domain Stream Attributes) which shows:

Also note that if you select 16:9, you must select at least one of Automatic P&S or Automatic Letterbox.

Maybe the solution is there too. I'm just too puzzled.

BIG THANKS in advance...

[manono]

Hi-

Plus what you're getting isn't even Pan-And-Scan, but just some left/right cropping. I would suggest changing from 16:9 P&S to 16:9 LB. You can easily do this in PGCEdit (open DVD, right-click the video->Domain Streams Attribute). I don't think that will fix the subtitle problem, though.

Maybe open the vobs in DVDSubEdit and raise the position of the subs.

[sunmanking]

Hi,

Hi-

Plus what you're getting isn't even Pan-And-Scan, but just some left/right cropping. I would suggest changing from 16:9 P&S to 16:9 LB. You can easily do this in PGCEdit (open DVD, right-click the video->Domain Streams Attribute). I don't think that will fix the subtitle problem, though.

Maybe open the vobs in DVDSubEdit and raise the position of the subs.

Thanks for writing back! If there's some left/right cropping I wouldn't mind much. Now, fixing those subs and getting them displayed properly in a 4:3 and 16:9 TV is the issue. the are properlly displayed in the computer dvd player... I tried dvdsubedit yesterday night (open full domain), played the video in dvdsubedit and the were properly displayed. Positioning them a little bit above might "fix" them when displayed on a 4:3 or 16:9 TV but then they might be wrongly displayed at the computer!... Furthermore, would that be too crappy? I mean, subs must be displayed properly just everywhere! Don't you all subbie freaks agree? anyone else can provide some more tips or conclusive solution?

regards!

[borax]

To show subtitles for 16:9 material properly on all display modes (wide, letterboxed and PanScan), you need 3 subtitle files (resulting in 3 subtitle streams)... each one has to be set up for the correct display mode. The reason behind it is that the dvd player automatically scales the video, but not the subtitles.
The MuxMan spec can be found here:
http://www.mpucoder.com/Muxman/mxp/substrm.shtml