WinData DVD+R DL

[lordsmurf]

You guys are spinning the old "disappearing data" myth and incorporating that into even more faulty logic.

Discs do not just mysteriously go "unreadable" in 6 months.

What almost always happens is the disc "burns fine" (not tested!) and 6 months later somebody finally gets around to watching/accessing it, and the data is corrupt. The piss-poor assumption is that the "data disappeared" instead of more logical conclusion that the disc burn was not "fine" at any point in time. In many more cases, the player/reader/burner used to read the disc is the true root of the problem.

If half of the WinData discs don't burn well -- which is usually the case -- then your actual cost is 10 for $12, and for that price, you may as well have just bought the better Verbatim media.

I'm so tired of the "disappearing data" bullshit. There's no science to back that up. Read some of the research from Verbatim, NIST, etc. It can happen, yes, but out of thousands of reported cases in the years, I have only been able to verify TWO of them as a disc actually having "gone bad". And in each case, it was a marginal quality Ritek (RITEKG04 DVD-R) disc that degraded just enough to become worthless.

[tmacan]

Thank you lordsmurf for your informed POV.. When I buy Verbatim I am usually only looking at inkjet printable media which is pretty expensive, so your post has prompted me to consider the cheaper, non-printable Verbatims as an alternative to Windata, thanks for that.. I wouldn't say that my fall-out rate with Windata is 50%, probably more like 15% or less, and for whatever reason I occasionally burn a bad Verbatim, so I still don't feel too bad about making the choice to use Windata for some things. About the "disappearing data" vs an original "bad burn", it's been my assumption that using verification (Nero 7) after the burn should guarantee that the data from disc was accurately burnt to the dvd. Isn't that true? My assumption has been that eventually "disappearing data" occurs due to poor optical quality of the media or perhaps problems with the dye. I don't claim to be an expert on burning (nor is it an ambition of mine to become one), so I appreciate hearing what anyone has to offer, although I'm a bit puzzled by why some evidently get agitated by the comments less-informed people may make. I'm always open to learning something new.. thanks!

[lordsmurf]

No, Nero verification is not at all reliable. It reports way too many false positives and false negatives. You would do just as well to flip a coin.

Your assumption is based on limited understanding of media, and no, it's not correct. What you say is so generic that you honestly didn't even say anything at all, you just drew a random conclusion that something "disappeared".

Why get aggravated? Somebody else that doesn't know anything sees your post, assumes it's educated/knowledgeable info, and then they parrot it. Eventually so may people start to say it, that their false logic of "it must be true because enough people say it" starts to take hold. Stupid begats stupid, and somebody has to stand up to it. (Not that you're stupid, but those down the line often are.)

If I sound mean in this post, know that it's not the case.

[jjeff]

Wow, Googled Windata +R DL DVD and this thread came to the top
Like earlier in this thread I also purchased the infamous Windata +R DL 10 pack for $10(green spindle) many years ago(my first experience with DL media) and like others had horrible luck with them. Most weren't even recognized in my Panasonic standalone DVDR(EZ-27 at the time, later I had a EZ-28 which would at least read them but most failed somewhere during the burn, usually at layer change). The few OK burns I had were on my PC, several copied OK on my PC but failed verification.

Due to this experience I swor off anything other than Verbatim 2.4x for DL media. I've had very good luck over the years with only a small handful of problems. The Verbs have come down since this thread started and you can get them most anywhere for $1/disc and on a good sale I get them for $39.99/50 (80 cents per). I was fine going this route for my occasional DL use but a couple months ago Microcenter had a $10 coupon off a $10 or more single item. The item I wanted was $9.99 and they wouldn't let me use the coupon since the coupon was only good on a "single" item which needed to be at "least" $10. In desperation I wandered over to the DVD section and saw a 100 spindle of DL medianever seen a 100 spindle of DLs before) for $29.99 They were the dreaded Windata brand but this time in gold packaging. As much as my better half said run run the cheapskate in me said $19.99 for 100 DLs
The cheapskate in me won and I just wanted to pass on my experience with my 20 cent DLs. So far(burned about 60 in my PC, none on my Panasonic standalones) I'm happy to report 100% success rate They burn and verify just fine, and yes LS on the dozen or so I've played back all the way through, they playback just fine. Of course I'm still a little worried about the archive quality of these discs so I'm still burning any DLs I really care about on my 2.4x Verbs, but for the occasional program I want to record and maybe only playback once or twice in a short time, I'm not too worried. In fact I've had such good luck with them I went back to MC last week and bought another 100 (30 cents apiece this time since I didn't have anymore $10 off coupons) but even 30 cents is almost 1/3rd my best price on Verbs.

Lastly, even though these discs say 8x I don't believe it for one minute, while it takes me 28 minutes(in my DVD duplicator which automatically selects the speed) to burn a Verb 2.4x it takes 27 minutes with these "8x" discs. On my PC I manually select 4x and again haven't had a failed burn or verify yet
Oh for those interested, the ID according to ImgBurn is Disc ID: UMEDISC-DL1-64 which unfortunately according to DigitalFAQ is 3rd class landfill grade (although it doesn't really mention + or DL of this ID).

[jman98]

jjeff - Seriously? 500+ posts and over 4 years of membership here and you just had to grave rob? Geez man, it's bad enough when the newbies do it. It's even worse when you do it to tell people that this cheap crap is great. Bully for you as the Brits say, but we get posts like yours all the time and then months or a year or two later the same guy will come crying about how his burns don't play anymore. If I'm going to burn it to a DVD that is not re-writable, I intend to keep it. I find it odd that there you are playing the "cheap bastard" card with regards to price and basically saying that you don't care if your burns last. Strange. Very strange. Caveat emptor on Windata.

If you want Verbatim for DVD+R DL media, and we've discussed this a rather large number of times here, you have 2 choices for the best.
1) Verbatim's DataLifePlus DVD+R DL discs are still made in Singapore. These are officially rated at 2.4x. The media code on my most recent purchase is MKM-001-00 which is an MCC code.
2) Verbatim's silver 8x-10x media is still made in Singapore. My most recent purchase has a media code of MKM-003-00, which is another MCC code.

Verbatim's other DVD+R DL media may be made in other countries, specifically India and China. Lower speed DVD+R DL media that is not DataLifePlus is almost always made in India or perhaps China. I recommend burning such discs at no speed greater than 4x. Reports are particularly mixed about the Made in India DVD+R DL media with some insisting it's pure crap and others saying it's OK. In general I found it to be OK if burned at slow speeds, but for what little it's worth I did a compare of burning Made in India and Made in Singapore silver DVD+R DL media of the same film at the same speed and the Made in Singapore media had fewer errors via Nero's disc scanning tool. Finally although Made in Taiwan media gets a lot of crap because it was the first place where cheap, low quality discs came out of, Verbatim's plant in Taiwan is first rate and always has been. Anything Verbatim sells that is Made in Taiwan or Made in Singapore has always been the best quality.

[jjeff]

Oh I'm not saying they're great for everyone but rather I've had remarkably good luck with these gold top 100 spindles.
They may indeed not last for long which is why I said for the most part I'm still using my stock of Verbatim 2.4x DLs for more critical things that aren't easily replaceable.
Sorry for the "grave digging" but as I said, when I searched Google this thread was literally at the top of my list, I thought it was odd too but their must not be much Windata DL talk on the net...
Again not saying these DVDs are for everyone but just wanted to add my data point. Oh if I start noticing problems with the DVDs I've burnt would it be OK to update this post or would that also be grave digging?. As you said I've been around a few years so I'm not one of those one post wonders, although this is my first post in this area(I post almost exclusively in the DVDR forum).
Again sorry for digging up this old thread

[jjeff]

I'm back
I said I'd give a update if things change and they have........for the worse
While I had nary a issue with the first 100 spindle of the Windata DL 8x gold top discs I can't say the same for my second spindle. I'm now having ~ 50% success rate and to make matters worse when I use my CopyPal II duplicator(that has no verification) about 1/2 the time the burn completes but when I try and play the copy it won't!
Since these discs are <1/2 the price of the standard(Verbatim 2.4x DL) I'm still in the savings but I also worry about the longevity of the burns that play now and also considering the wasted time, I just can't recommend them.
Too bad considering the price but I guess the first 100 spindle must have been more of a anomaly than norm, the newest spindle seems to be more of the same crap Windata DLs I tried many years back before I swore to only purchase Verbatims.

[Noahtuck]

Since these discs are <1/2 the price of the standard(Verbatim 2.4x DL) I'm still in the savings

Really ?
If they are HALF the price, and you are having a 50% failure rate, to me that looks like breaking even.

Then factor in the time you wasted, the wear on hardware, it sounds more like a loss to me......

I would have never used them to start with because anything worth burning to a DL is worth doing right.
Anything important that is....

[jman98]

What Noahtuck said. Geez man, my time has some value to me and while I'm not one of those morons we get around here who sit paralyzed by their PCs while they burn and won't leave them until the burn is finished, having about 50% of my burns fail is a huge waste of my time. Many people place no value at all on their time and if they spend twice the time but save pennies, they consider it a fair trade. As Noahtuck points out, all those bad burns aren't free. Your burner is now a lot closer to the end of its useful lifespan due to all the unnecessary bad burns you made. It looks like a net loss to me too. Others may learn from your experience, so I do thank you for the update.

And generally speaking, just leave old threads alone when they get over 6 months old unless what you have to say is REALLY critical, like you know an unlock code for a DVD player that nobody else posted. It's debatable whether your grave robbing post really and truly was necessary to the thread as you had little more to say than "I bought some because I'm cheap and they worked great" and then you had to eat those words. But there are no hard and fast rules. I guess there is some value in your experience being passed on to others.

[jjeff]

[QUOTE=Noahtuck;2191354]

Then factor in the time you wasted, the wear on hardware, it sounds more like a loss to me......

I totally agree, the only reason I said "I'm still in the savings" is so I wouldn't feel so bad every time I have to toss one of the coasters I won't be purchasing any more of these 30c blanks, lesson learned.......again

update 10-29-12
Well my bad burns may be attributed to my Copy II duplicator that burns at full bore. Using only my PCs I haven't had a failure, even after verification. Note when I do a PC burn I specify 4x and not the rated 8x.....wonder if that makes a difference. Anyway I'm happier now that I've found a way to get good burns. Guess I'll only use the Verbatim 2.4x blanks in my duplicator and reserve the Windata's for PC use and hope for the best.

update 12-14-12
Well I'm now starting to have "issues" trying to playback some of my just burnt PC Windatas. The burn goes fine as does the verify but when playing them back on multiple DVD players they skip and lock at around the 1/2 way point(second layer??). This has happened now to 6 discs. From the original image file I tried reburning 4 of them and the second copy was the same as the first. Next I tried burning to Verbatim 2.4x +R DL blanks and those played perfectly. Two of my failed Windata burns I lost my original image so I thought what the heck, I'll try copying the Windata in my PC and burn to a Verbatim blank. To my amazement those copies worked(meaning my DVD players wouldn't play the discs but somehow my PC read them and created a good image file. I thought that was odd but was happy I was able to salvage the first burn.
With all the issues I've had with these Windata discs I really don't plan on purchasing them anymore(even though Microcenter has them on sale again for $29.99/100) but I guess I'm going to use the rest of my open 100 spindle but I'll make sure to play every copy all the way through before deleting my image file.

Update 12-20-12
Of the three DVD players I have setup 1 seems to play the Windatas just fine all the way through. One locks up a but ~ the middle point(2nd layer??) and the third locks up even worse around the 1/2 way point. My 2.4x +R DL Verbatim discs play just fine on all players. So I put most of the blame on the Windatas but a little bit on the players, after the same brand and model and one player plays the discs just fine.
I was at Microcenter today and they had the 100 spindle on sale again for $29.99!! I was able to talk myself out of getting another spindle but when I looked in their clearance area low and behold they had a open box 100 spindle that looked like it was only missing a couple DVD marked down to $19.99 which I just couldn't resist.....guess I'll be playing with these discs for a while longer......

[Noahtuck]

[QUOTE=jjeff;2191417]

Then factor in the time you wasted, the wear on hardware, it sounds more like a loss to me......

I totally agree, the only reason I said "I'm still in the savings" is so I wouldn't feel so bad every time I have to toss one of the coasters

I'll give ya that one!!
LOL!!
I sometimes like to justify things in my own way or bury my head in the sand as I am happier that way!!
LMAO!!

I won't be purchasing any more of these 30c blanks, lesson learned.......again

I have strayed from the path of righteousness once or twice over the last decade+ but only in small increments, a test here, a test there, but I have always been a pretty staunch believer in Verbatim media since before DVDR's even existed, because even back in the day I always seemed to have better luck with Verbatim CDR's when burning music, PS1 games, etc.