wine with your linux?

[tigerwolf]

don't mind if I do. I've been messing around with linux for about 4-5 years now (slackware, red hat, openlinux, and getting ready to play with mandrake 8.1) and the thing that I never knew was this great project called wine. I don't know how it escaped my attention but until lindows came around, I totally missed it. I figured for those of you that have linux, freebsd, etc, you might want to check it out.

http://www.winehq.com/

and

http://appdb.codeweavers.com/

[d4n13l]

LOL, 5 years with Linux and you have never heard of WINE!
I have used WINE a bit, didnt think too much of it but it was OK. Win4Lin is good for Windows apps, I have seen MS Word and Outlook running under Win4Lin and it looked just the same as under windows.
I was gonna get Mandrake 8.0 but heard it was a bit buggy, apparently 8.1 is meant to be a lot better though. One of the things I am impressed with is the new KDE 2.2.x, full screen anti aliasing and a whole load more. I like the way KDE gets more and more integrated and simpler to use, it is becomming a great desktop environment. It was one of the first things that impressed me when I first got X up and running (I played in the shell on a simple text VGA for a few months before, LOL), I used to use RedHat before, but then after my first Mandrake experience I have stuck with Mandrake. It is a derivative of Red Hat but I feel that it makes a better desktop OS than Red Hat does. I cant wait until I get 8.1.
I dont really have much need for emulating Windows though, I found I can manage without it luckily - If I want to run Windows apps I just boot to Windows. Simple.


PS
Actually, I think that I might buy Mandrake 8.1 right now...

[d4n13l]

Hehe, just ordered Mandrake 8.1 and a "Linux From Scrach" CD.
I dont know if you are familiar with "Linux from Scratch", it is not a distro but the bare essentials that you need to get a Linux system up and running. The beauty of it is that you can decide exactly what you install, Ie no fluffy bloat and no decision of which of the 50 text editors you will use today LOL, you also get the added benefit of learning how to build a system from the ground up.
The Mandrake I have got is like 6 CDs, 3 source and besides CD1, the rest I presume will be crap that I have no intention of ever using.
All this for £15 including P&P, not bad.
If I only had broadband I would just download it for free...

[tigerwolf]

Hey I don't know how it escaped my attention. I think its kind of like you never notice a type of car until you own one. I didn't care much about running windows apps in linux, but it started becoming an interesting concept, especially with the encoding issues with linux, if I could run a windows encoding program in linux. Probably why wine and win4lin escaped me though I had heard of win4lin before. Oh the environment on linux has drastically changed as far as the GUI environment goes. Linux has come along way in just a few years, which is more then I can say about winblows.

check out this article about microsoft and linux:
http://www.newsforge.com/article.pl?sid=02/01/16/0310222

have a good one.

[d4n13l]

That was the reason why I tried WINE; for encoding (tried out TMPGenc). It pretty much sucked, I couldnt get much to work. I did manage to get it to run but it was a royal pain in the ass to say the least. I could get simple programs to run, but I had better Linux equivalents anyways so I had no need to WINE really. I tried a fairly old WINE though (probably last years), I should think that it will be much better now. I just cant wait to get my new Mandrake in the mail...


I read that news article with interest, I love articles like that.
Especially the bits like this:
<TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD><font size=-1>Quote:</font><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR><TR><TD><FONT SIZE=-1><BLOCKQUOTE>
In China, because of government sensitivity to criticism from the United States about bootleg code on government machines, and eagerness to show compliance with WTO
regulations, Chinese regulators are on a campaign to eliminate bootleg code from government offices. Unlike previous efforts, the campaign is getting results. The Beijing municipal government, along with similar government organs in Shanghai and Guangdong province, recently pledged to eliminate illegal software, according to the China Daily. However, these agencies have opted to use home grown or Open Source products instead. Politically connected Red Flag Linux has won the bulk of those deals.
</BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR></TABLE>
Linux is the peoples champion.
What I find amusing is that Linux is not even competing with MS in the business sense, there is no comany to bankrupt. Linux will always be Linux regardless and with companies such as IBM backing it things can only get better.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: d4n13l on 2002-01-16 16:56:44 ]</font>

[tigerwolf]

well look how far linux has already come and how do you destroy something that everyone works on, which I've always wondered how many microsoft workers use linux, though I imagine that gates has a clause in the employment papers if you try to use anything other then microsoft products you will be terminated,
though you have 3 choices on termination:
1. electric chair
2. lethal injection
3. shooting squad.

when I went to the windows xp opening on the questionaire the handed out it inquired what operating system you use, and linux was the first choice (okay they were in alphabetical order, but still). Which I still find ironic according to microsoft they don't care about linux and believe it won't become anything, yet it made it onto their questionaire.

[tigerwolf]

speaking of which have you seen the movie "antitrust".

you might enjoy it.

it has tim robbins and ryan phillippe

its an excellent movie, though read both of these articles before watching it:
techupdate.zdnet.com/techupdate/stories/main/0,14179,2838786,00.html

and

www.zdnet.com/zdnn/stories/news/0,4586,5101885,00.html

antitrust is one of those movies that really makes you think and its got quite a bit of action as well. or as wall street journal put it "a clever paranoid thriller".

take care.

of course you might have to cut and paste

[tigerwolf]

here's the official site for antitrust:

http://www.mgm.com/antitrust/

[d4n13l]

I think MS know that they will never kill Linux or Open Source, they will just try to keep the lid on it by whatever means necessary. What I find funny is how FreeBSD runs Hotmail, behind the scenes of course.
I think the way MS negate Linux is funny, but that is just PR at work - I bet they wouldnt mind Linux's share of the server market would they? LOL

[tigerwolf]

well wasn't it just like a year or two ago they found out that hotmail was running with apache? I never heard what operating system it was running on, though I remember something about win2000 being out but they still weren't using it but on but maybe a fraction of their servers. They of course blew it off. side note here:

"The October 2001 Netcraft Web Server Survey found that 56% of the web sites on the Internet are using Apache, thus making it more widely used than all other web servers combined."

ah here's a good article about it:
http://news.cnet.com/news/0-1003-200-344896.html

[d4n13l]

Hehe, I guess most MS drones (read: NT admins) even know that IIS stinks. Apparently, ISS is set to get a lot better due to a complete rebuild, but Apache 2 is also coming out so I doubt things will change much. Maybe in these times of *real* business plans (after the big .com bubble burst) open source maybe the only financially viable solution for many people. Hopefully .
I always love the way that MS try to make out IIS to be faster than Apache, but neglect to say only when serving -static- web pages. In real life, most sites serve dynamic content, where apache beats IIS. I find it funny that in every MS-sponsored comparison, IIS always seems to come out on top, LOL. Strange...
Isnt CNET Mircosoft owned amyways?

PS
I think that FreeBSD takes care of the load balancing for Hotmail - the real important stuff behind the scenes, although netcraft.com wont be able to tell you that, LOL.

[ember]

Apache is slower than IIS. This is true for dynamic and static. MS will eventually win the server wars, and XP has shown the reliability needed.

[d4n13l]

Come on, you gotta say more than that!
Where did you get the stats from?
Apache 2 isnt fully completed yet anyway, so no comparison can be made using that.
I read a massive topic on slashdot the other day where most people had the opinion that Apache was just generally a better web server. IIS has its advantages, Apache has a few more. Speed is not everything, there are many other factors. I have seen many articles proclaiming IIS to be faster at dynamic content but they use unfair benchmarks and unfair testing environments. Very one sided (usually MS sponsored anyway).
I seriously doubt that MS will monopolise the server market - What leads you to think that they will?
I dont want to hear anything that involves ".NET" .

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: d4n13l on 2002-01-17 19:06:57 ]</font>

[tigerwolf]

Apache is slower than IIS. This is true for dynamic and static. MS will eventually win the server wars, and XP has shown the reliability needed.

well given somehow I just lost the huge response I wrote and I'm not in the mood to repeat it I'll just say this.

IIS = Being Naked While Being Shot At By An Automatic weapon, oh and given bandaids for the wounds.

Geez, now I'm pissed cus I spent so long typing my other response just to have it flip out and loose it. GRRR.

[tigerwolf]

which I might add is Standard Operating Procedure for Microshaft.

as I saw a quote from gates stating that security if priority now instead of bells and whistles, well why didn't you fix the security then add the bells and whistles. I'd rather have a more secure system then a gui that eats more memory.

[d4n13l]

LOL, dont you just HATE it when you lose a big reply you have been writing? I think it has happened to us all.
Anyway...
Mandrake 8.1 finally arrived at my house today. It has got about the easiest install process imaginable, just the same as a windows install basically. Every single piece of my hardware was autodetected and configured properly, even my USB mouse was set up correctly (yes, EVEN the wheel works!). After the install I first booted to KDE and a lot has been changed. I must say it is a whole lot better now, it is far more integrated than it ever used to be and it is ultra configurable. Pretty slick. Multimedia support is now a lot better also, video plays just as well as it does under Windows and there are many apps to play with. I havent tried out WINE yet but I will eventually, there are a load of other things to do first. First on my list is building a new kernel, I tried it earlier but got a kernel to big error when I tried to set Lilo to boot from it - I guess I just have to go through everything again and cut out the crap. A lot has been added since my last kernel build, there are many new options now so I guess I will have to do some reading now...

[ember]

maybe i was being a bit inflammatory with what i said, but, MS is winning the reliabilty wars- XP Pro is the perfect OS I have seen - the best desktop innovations so far. I have seen many benchmark tests and IMHO IIS and apache are too close to call. There are certainly better webservers out there for handling *all* kinds of requests, so don't just think it's Apache vs IIS.
BTW Linux compatibilty is less of an issue now but don't you find the compatibilty program from MS with XP just a little better than the dreadful database query efforts at Mandrake et al websites?

[vitualis]

"MS winning the reliability wars"

What you mean to say is that the Win9x/ME OSes were really rather unstable and Win NT ones were much better right? That WinXP is more stable than it's home based predecessors is without question, but it is in no way means that it is "winning" the "reliability wars" as you put it.

As for the compatibility program with XP, you have to remind yourself that it exists because XP is nowhere as "compatible" as the Win9x OSes.

Now, before people start going into esctasy over the "innovations" in WinXP, it should be fair to note that most of the real "benefits" of XP over 9x are in fact already in Win2k...

Regards.

[d4n13l]

Apache Vs IIS is a moot point anyway, they both have merits and are now both very good web servers. IIS used to suck balls, but now after its revamp it is a lot better. I would have to say that Apache is probably the most prefered and it has the solid Apache name - It has built the reputation that it deserves. Though like you say, there are many other web servers that certainly run well. However, Apache is Open Source, most other competing web servers are not: IIS under MS is certainly not as cheap as Apache under Linux/*BSD.

I dont think that XP Pro will have any effect on the server market, it isnt even a server OS, MS have other XP flavours designed for this, XP Pro is just a desktop OS built of NT roots. NT in its own right is already a high class server OS, the newer server software from MS will no doubt be slightly better than NT, but then similarly Linux and BSD will continue to get better. XP has changed the desktop environment considerably, thats all. The bottom line is that because Open Source alternatives (carrying their own unique advantages) exist, there will always be an open market. The desktop and server markets are totally different animals.

BTW Linux compatibilty is less of an issue now but don't you find the compatibilty program from MS with XP just a little better than the dreadful database query efforts at Mandrake et al websites?

I have to agree with you about the Mandrake site's database, it sucks.
I havent installed XP yet, but I know that I will have a few compatibilty problems with it.
To tell you the truth I couldnt really care less if Linux doesnt replace MS at the end of the day. I am happy with it as it is now, I know how to use it and it is great for development. Linux is suited more for "computer types" than for your average home user, I understand this: But I also understand that is the very reason why it will never die. It may be used by a minority, but it is a minority that consists of some of the most knowledgable and talented people in the industry. Open Source wih its huge following of developers, doesnt just dissapear because MS bring out a stable desktop OS. They are not in competition with MS, they just code for the love of coding - Computers are a religeon to some people.

[d4n13l]

Now, before people start going into esctasy over the "innovations" in WinXP, it should be fair to note that most of the real "benefits" of XP over 9x are in fact already in Win2k...

I am just curious, as I dont have XP yet.
What are the good things about it?
What are the bad things about it?
I mean in useability terms here, what do you find it is like to use and what does it offer you that haven't had before?
I know stability goes without saying, what I mean is how you find it to use.
I know the technical details of it all, but what I am after is what technical details cant tell you, the things you can only pick up if you actually use it.

[d4n13l]

LOL, sorry, I only just noticed this:
"MS is winning the reliabilty wars"

What wars?
As far as I know the only OS with a reputation for being unstable was 9x.
That would make it civil war.

I thought you were talking about servers; stability should go without saying. I cant see that purely because XP Pro is stable, MS will win the 'server wars': The two are not related.
MS already has a near desktop monopoly anyway, it had that without a stable OS. I cant see Linux users switching to XP because it is stable (which Linux is), has some nice new features (most of which Linux has anyway) and a bit more eye candy (which Linux can also have). They use Linux because it offers them more, something that no propreitry OS can ever offer. The fact that they use Linux means they put up with it as it is, without the masses of software and extra compatibility that XP will offer them.