CPPM protection on video-DVD

[mizpulp]

I just purchased a couple of DVDs with music videos on them, they both have CSS/CPPM protection, I am trying to extract a few of the videos for my own personal use. I've tried DVD shrink, DVD decrypter, DVDFab, and ripit4me all with the same result -- good video quality with full static for the sound.

Is there anyway around this CPPM? I was about to try AnyDVD but after dowloading it and reading the FAQ it says nothing about CPPM so that probably isn't going to work either.

Thanks!

[MOVIEGEEK]

Are these DVD-Audio or DVD-Video?
If DVD-Audio then there's nothing you can do.

[mizpulp]

How exactly do I tell the difference between DVD-Audio and DVD-Video?

The covers of the discs have a small logo at the bottom that says "DVD video"

Thanks

[guns1inger]

Static sounds like AC3 being play through an analogue output without proper down-mixing. AC3 is digital (as is DTS) and both sound like white (or more correctly, pink) noise when played through an analogue setup without being translated. What are you playing the ripped copy with ?

[Alex_ander]

CPPM encryption is for DVDA and CSS is for DVD video.
If you have DVDA you can use CPPM Ripper for copying to HDD and DVDA Explorer for ripping the files (MLP or wavs) from AUDIO_TS folder but there's no way to beat watermark protection in final wavs, they can only be used for anything else but DVDA.

[mizpulp]

Thanks everyone for trying to help, once I'm more knowledgeable hopefully I can return the favor...

One thing I don't understand, people keep saying CPPM is for DVD-audio but these discs are DVD-video (at least that's the logo it has on the cover and discs), yet DVD decrypter still shows "CSS/CPPM" in the "copyright protection system type" line. Is DVD decrypter wrong, is the logo wrong or what?

I haven't ripped to a DVD yet, I ripped it to the hard drive, when I play it back (using windows media player) all the sound is full blown static sounding.

[guns1inger]

Try installing FFDShow or using a better player (VLC or Media Player Classic would be good choices) to see if it sounds better.

[Alex_ander]

One thing I don't understand, people keep saying CPPM is for DVD-audio but these discs are DVD-video (at least that's the logo it has on the cover and discs), yet DVD decrypter still shows "CSS/CPPM" in the "copyright protection system type" line. Is DVD decrypter wrong, is the logo wrong or what?

Both DVD types are parts of the same DVD standard using CSS for video (originally intended for both DVD types) and CPPM (a stronger protection but incompatible with CSS, developed after decrypting of CSS in 1999) for audio folder. DVDDecrypter probably just indicates the presence of protection and actually can be used for ripping just video folder of a hybrid DVDA (with duplicated audio in inferior formats for more playback compatibility).

[Noahtuck]

How exactly do I tell the difference between DVD-Audio and DVD-Video?

You can look in the folders on the disc, is there anything in the AUDIO_TS folder on THE ORIGINAL disc ?

First off, if he is using the mentioned tools to rip from the disc, even if it is a dvd audio disc, they are in no way even looking at or touching the audio_ts folder so that is totally irrelevant.
They ONLY look at and rip from the VIDEO_TS folder.

You need to be more specific,
how are you playing the ripped files back ?
from the HDD ?
after they are burned back to a dvdr ?
if the original is played the same way as the ripped files do you get the same results ?
From the pc ?

I'm thinking the same thing as guns1inger but can't really say for sure with such limited info......

If DVD-Audio then there's nothing you can do.

Wrong....

CPPM encryption is for DVDA and CSS is for DVD video.
If you have DVDA you can use CPPM Ripper for copying to HDD and DVDA Explorer for ripping the files (MLP or wavs) from AUDIO_TS folder but there's no way to beat watermark protection in final wavs, they can only be used for anything else but DVDA.

And wrong......
Not that it matter because he is not accessing anything from any audtio_ts folders the way he is working anyways.

I have been ripping the files from the AUDIO_TS folder of dvd audio disc's for a looooong time, converting them to MLP, then either authoring a new dvd audio disc, or either 3- stereo 2 channel wavs or a single 6 channel wav then splitting into 6 single wav files by various means and am than able to do anything i want with them. no watermarls or protection of any kind.
Make a raw wav compilation, convert back to MLP for a new disc, convert to DD 5.1 or DTS, ect ect.

i don't know what CPPM Ripper is but i have used PPCMRipper, but usually use DVDARipper to get the audio_ts folder contents to the hdd then DVDAExplorer to extract the MLP's from the raw files, then various other programs (now just one) to get the wav's in the form i want to do with what i want.

[mizpulp]

I'm ripping the files to the hard drive, converting them to MPEG (using VOB to MPEG) and then trying to play them back on my hard drive (using windows media player). All the sound is static.

(I am making a collection of music videos in MPEG format and then putting the ones I want together onto one dvd, so I have to do it this way.)

I never had any problems creating MPEG files using the exact same method on discs without CSS/CPPM.

Any furthur help is appreciated, thanks

Miz

[Noahtuck]

Okay, have you tried playing the original dvd on your pc ?

Have you tried playing the raw files on your pc after ripping them before converting them to mpg, with a software player ?
IE: PowerDVD, WinDVD, ect.

You need to be more specific,
how are you playing the ripped files back ?
from the HDD ?
after they are burned back to a dvdr ?
if the original is played the same way as the ripped files do you get the same results ?
From the pc ?

[Alex_ander]

i don't know what CPPM Ripper is but i have used PPCMRipper...

CPPM is Content Protection for Pre-recorded Media, PPCM is mistyping by Russian programmers used for their tool.

..convert back to MLP for a new disc, convert to DD 5.1 or DTS, ect ect.

The first thing is different from the rest two. You can use the ripped watermarked files any way you want (e.g. using lower bitrate allowing to place them as PCMs or DTS in video folder) but if you author them back to DVDA the presence of protection will be detected and the key code requested, that's enough for a sertified standalone to stop playback (there are some chances for PC though). Watermark protection is robust to even converting to analog (at least documents describing the task for its development say so and the final success on it is reported of), it's a repeating every 30 sec code included in content itself inside audio range but not noticeable for ear (it's not my fantasy). This means you have to spoil audio to filter it out (still without being sure you did it). If you say you authored MLP back and played that DVDR on a standalone then your source probably had been without the watermark part of protection scheme. Or you know some new software aimed at beating watermarks, could you call it?

[mizpulp]

>> Okay, have you tried playing the original dvd on your pc ?

Yes, the original DVD plays fine on my PC.

>>> Have you tried playing the raw files on your pc after ripping them before converting them to mpg, with a software player ?
IE: PowerDVD, WinDVD, ect.

No I have not, you you implying that the conversion process from VOB to MPEG could cause the sound to go bad? PowerDVD and WinDVD will directly play the VOB files off of the hard drive?

Thanks again

[jman98]

Noahtuck - Alex_ander is from Russia and he made a mistake in his first post that is common to Russian speakers. He should have said this -

"... there's no way to beat watermark protection in final wavs, they can't be used for anything except DVDA"

Russian, like other languages including Spanish, uses a double negative to express negation. For example, saying "I don't have no money" is quite correct in both Spanish and Russian. Anything/nothing type statements can be problematic and they will sometimes use the wrong word in English because the correct word is always "nothing" in Russian in this type of sentence. So you and Alex_ander do agree that watermarked audio can only be used in DVDA.

[guns1inger]

o I have not, you you implying that the conversion process from VOB to MPEG could cause the sound to go bad?

I believe he is implying that WMP is a poor player.

[Noahtuck]

No I have not, you you implying that the conversion process from VOB to MPEG could cause the sound to go bad? PowerDVD and WinDVD will directly play the VOB files off of the hard drive?

Thanks again

I'm not impying anything, i'm trying to help you figure out what is happening & getting it to work.
If the ripped files play from the HDD the same as the original dvd plays from the dvd-rom drive then you know the ripping is not the problem.

o I have not, you you implying that the conversion process from VOB to MPEG could cause the sound to go bad?

I believe he is implying that WMP is a poor player.

Well, that too

Yes, those programs will play a dvd from your hard drive, when you rip the content's to your hdd from the original dvd you should end up with a folder structure exactly the same as on the original dvd.
An AUDIO_TS & VIDEO_TS folder, you can open the VIDEO_TS folder in either of those programs and watch it just like you would the original dvd.

What are the music dvd's you are trying to rip ?

[Alex_ander]

Noahtuck - Alex_ander is from Russia and he made a mistake in his first post that is common to Russian speakers. He should have said this -

"... there's no way to beat watermark protection in final wavs, they can't be used for anything except DVDA"

Russian, like other languages including Spanish, uses a double negative to express negation. For example, saying "I don't have no money" is quite correct in both Spanish and Russian. Anything/nothing type statements can be problematic and they will sometimes use the wrong word in English because the correct word is always "nothing" in Russian in this type of sentence. So you and Alex_ander do agree that watermarked audio can only be used in DVDA.

I meant what I said. In other words, the ripped watermarked MLPs can't be used for recreating a working copy of DVDA. They can be used converted to an inferior format (the presence of watermark protection is only checked in DVDAs).
But that is often useless because many DVDAs have the same content already duplicated in video folder in DTS and PCM.

[Noahtuck]

..convert back to MLP for a new disc, convert to DD 5.1 or DTS, ect ect.

The first thing is different from the rest two.

Ummm.. i know that

There has been a workaround for protected dvd-audio files for some time.
I have made several copy of my store bought "protected" dvd-audio disc's, if they were not protected you could just copy the files and record them back to a blank dvd.

And yes, before you ask, they are DVD-AUDIO disc's, and when reauthored and burned back there is actually only a AUDIO_TS folder & NO video_ts folder, because original DVD-AUDIO disc's have content in both folder for play on both standard dvd video only players and standalone dvd players that are dvd audio capable and there is too much for a single layer dvdr.

The reason for using DVDARipper along with InterVideo WinDVD 5/6/7 Player is because it rips the files from the audio_ts folder and removes the protection.
Then you can use several tools to do what you want with the files after the MLP files are extracted from the ripped files on the HDD.

But it took several tools to get a finished product but it can be done as i have done it several times. Author the dvd audio & then burn with a dvd audio burning program.

And there is a relatively new product (actualy the original version is a few years old) that allow's you to drop an MLP file that has been extracted from the now unprotected AUDIO_TS folder contents with DVDAExplorer, then let's you actually make and edit menu's, then burns to a dvdr, all in one package.
Prob. the best audio conversion, authoring and burning tool i have ever seen.
DigiOnAudio2 Professional

But even before this tool came to light i was making backup's of my dvd-audio disc's.
And yes they all work perfectly on dvd audio players. And it would be hard for them to work as a dvd video disc when there is NO video_ts folder.
So never say never to someone who has been doing what you say can't be done 8)

[Noahtuck]

@ jman98
I knew exactly what he was saying....

I meant what I said. In other words, the ripped watermarked MLPs can't be used for recreating a working copy of DVDA.

And you are wrong... i have done it several times.
If you know what the proccess is and how to do it.
You should study up on it a little more 8)

They can be used converted to an inferior format (the presence of watermark protection is only checked in DVDAs).
But that is often useless because many DVDAs have the same content already duplicated in video folder in DTS and PCM.

Yes they can be, & what you said, if i wanted to copy the other formats in lower quality i could just copy the contents of the video_ts folder.
But what do you lose if you convert the MLP's to 96/24 ? the same as the MLP's just converted to wav. then converted back to MLP, it's the longer way around but comes out the same as neither format is lossy, so they say.

Here is a thread talking about the program i mentioned from a few years ago
http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/61716#321283
I've been into this for a loooong time

[mizpulp]

Thanks again for all the help, much appreciated

OK I will try ripping the DVD and playing the entire DVD from the hard drive, I will also try to play the converted MPEG files with a different media player.

The DVDs I am trying to get music videos off of are "The universal masters collection by Ace of Base", "New order - new order story", "Billy Joel - The Essential Video Collection"

All 3 discs give me the exact same problem - good video but static for sound. DVD decrypter lists all 3 has having "CSS/CPPM" protection.

Thanks

[Noahtuck]

Thanks again for all the help, much appreciated

OK I will try ripping the DVD and playing the entire DVD from the hard drive, I will also try to play the converted MPEG files with a different media player.

The DVDs I am trying to get music videos off of are "The universal masters collection by Ace of Base", "New order - new order story", "Billy Joel - The Essential Video Collection"

All 3 discs give me the exact same problem - good video but static for sound. DVD decrypter lists all 3 has having "CSS/CPPM" protection.

Thanks

Hey,
I just saw your PM.
Even for music video dvd's, all the video and audio are contained in the VOB files that are located in the VIDEO_TS folder on the dvd. The AUDIO_TS folders are empty.
The AUDIO_TS folder is for DVD AUDIO disc's, a totally diff. beast.

The AUDIO_TS folder is not even required for a dvd video disc, but it's there most of the time anyways.

Did you look in the two folders on the original disc through windows explorer ?
The AUDIO_TS folder should be empty & the VIDEO_TS folder should be full.
I checked the billy joel dvd out and it's just a dvd video disc.
Programs like DVD Decrypter, DVDFab Decrypter, DVD Shrink, ect. only access the VIDEO_TS folders on disc's because they are made for video dvd's and that is the only folder that contains the information for video dvd's.

Let us know what happens when you play the VIDEO_TS folder from the Hard drive.

[MOVIEGEEK]

@Noahtuck,
Can you show us a guide how to bypass CSS2?

[mizpulp]

OK was about to try and play the .vob file from my hard drive but how do you get powerDVD to do this? (also there are 2 different files, the .vob and .ifo file, do I need to move these into it's own folder called video_ts?)

On the powerdvd website I see versions 6 and 7, yet I have version PowerDVD DX 5.9.2806 and when I click on "online update" it says I have the most recent version??

I can't find any options in powerDVD to select file to play off of the hard drive, it only wants to play DVD discs in the drive.

Thanks again

[guns1inger]

Start up PowerDVD, click on the little CD Tray icon and select Open DVD files from Hard Disk Drive. Navigate to your Video_TS folder, and PowerDVD will do the rest.

[mizpulp]

What CD tray icon? I don't see it. I have 2 icons on the bottom left of the main screen, an "exit" and a "?" icon.

The whole main screen has the following options

Exit
resume movie
restart
title menu
eject
settings
help
online update

......... and the 2 icons as stated in the bottom left. That's all I see?

What version are you using? I have 5.9.2806, Is this indeed the latest version or is it simply the last update of version 5? What am I missing here?

[guns1inger]

I am running version 5.0

When I open it I have two screens, the control panel and the display area. The control panel has a CD Tray icon, which is used to load a video or play from a DVD in the DVD drive. If I hover the cursor over it the tool tip reads "Select Source"

[Alex_ander]

But what do you lose if you convert the MLP's to 96/24 ?

If it is 96/24 5.1 or 192/24 2.0 it will exceed the allowed bitrates for audio or video folder (for making an audio DVD of original content and thus disabling protection).

...the same as the MLP's just converted to wav. then converted back to MLP, it's the longer way around but comes out the same as neither format is lossy, so they say.

What makes you sure this will remove watermarking? It's simply a type of archiving audio.

If you know what the proccess is and how to do it.
You should study up on it a little more...

Here is a thread talking about the program i mentioned from a few years ago
http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/61716#321283
I've been into this for a loooong time
.. i have done it several times.

I know what process is for exact extracting to MLP, then to wavs and encoding to MLP again (using the 2 mentioned tools and SurCodeMLP in verification mode). I'd like to know how to remove watermarking from wavs. Since their presence is detectable in analog form (it's from official documents), even resampling e.g. to 88,2 wouldn't help.

Your link doesn't help me in 'learning more'. I have DigiOn2 installed, it is one of authoring applications with internal MLP support (I prefer using discWelder+SurCodeMLP). It was modified for English interface (originally Japanese only) by Andrey Drony 2 years ago (not too loooong). It was first distributed in a Russian forum for making DVDA compilations of 44.1kHz CD material (all discussed attempts of creating a copy of watermarked DVDAs failed before). Later he put an updated version to a torrent.

So what is your method of removing watermarks?

[mizpulp]

Sorry to interrupt a bit but what exactly is a "watermark" ?

Thanks

[Alex_ander]

It's the second stage of protection for DVDA. The first stage of protection (from ripping to HDD) is similar to CSS but uses longer key codes.
Here's a quote from Disctronics PDF document 'DVD-Audio for High Quality Music '(2002):

Watermarking

The copy protection scheme for DVD-Audio also includes watermarking, needed to identify music tracks and trigger copy protection systems when recording the content when supplied as an analogue input. The watermark must remain intact when the content is converted to analogue but not be noticeable in listening tests. Watermarks must provide
• Transparency (no effect on audio quality)
• Robustness (be detectable after content processing)
• Security (against forgery)
Verance has created a watermark to meet specifications from the recording industry and is regarded as the "clear winner of multiple competitive industry evaluations". It is a component of DVD-Audio security architecture and adopted for SDMI Portable Device specification. It has been used in consumer products since December 1999.
The watermark contains 72-bits of data comprising 4 CCI (Copy Control Information) bits and 8 Usage Identifier bits every 15 seconds plus 60 Content Identifier bits every 30 seconds.
Verance claims that their technology has been demonstrated to meet all industry requirements and is available for use for DVD-Audio. It is renewable for the future and audio-watermarking technologies can be expected to be appearing in other applications.